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Thread: Los Angeles OC meet suggested.

  1. #1
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=205094

    Yes, the responses to the suggestion are largely negative- predictions of participants being arrested, shot, mugged by gang-bangers. Also frought with name calling- my particular favorite "attention *****" made the list of cat calls.

    While there is surely a need for caution, some pro-gunners make me physically ill.
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    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    That's why I have been refraining from visiting CalGuns. I just got tired of all the anti-gun rhetoric being mindlessly spewed about over there. I got better things to do than verbally spar with the mentally retarded.
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    Regular Member brokenbarrel's Avatar
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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    That's why I have been refraining from visiting CalGuns. I just got tired of all the anti-gun rhetoric being mindlessly spewed about over there. I got better things to do than verbally spar with the mentally retarded.
    city of los angeles restricts holsters to police,armed security and ccw holders.........be careful city ord

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    brokenbarrel wrote:
    city of los angeles restricts holsters to police,armed security and ccw holders.........be careful city ord
    The only reference to a holster I could find in the LA city codes was the following:

    SEC. 55.16. SALE OF ULTRACOMPACT FIREARMS PROHIBITED. (Added by Ord. No. 173,875, Eff. 5/18/01.)

    (a) As used in this section, the term “ultracompact firearm” shall mean any pistol, revolver, or other firearm, which has an overall length of six and three quarter inches (6.75") or less or an overall height of four and one half inches (4.5") or less, as measured with the magazine detached.

    (b) As used in this section, the term “dealer” shall mean any person who is engaged in the retail sale of firearms and any retail firearms dealer, as that term is defined in Section 103.314 of this code.

    (c) No dealer or other person shall sell, lend, give, transfer ownership of, or otherwise transfer to any other person any ultracompact firearm.

    (d) No dealer shall process, pursuant to Penal Code Section 12072(d), any ultracompact firearm transaction between persons not licensed as firearms dealers or not possessing Federal Firearms Licenses.

    (e) No dealer or other person shall sell, lend, give, transfer ownership of, or otherwise transfer to any other person any firearm accessory designed to enable or facilitate the carrying of any ultracompact firearm, including but not limited to shoulder holsters, ankle holsters, belt holsters, and other devices designed for the purpose of aiding the concealment of an ultracompact firearm, unless such accessory is designed so that it can be used with a firearm larger than an ultracompact firearm.
    As you can see, this ordinance only is dealing with holsters which are for ultracompact handguns. As a frame of reference, only "subcompact" glocks fall under the minimum length, and would be violating this ordinance.
    As a side note, apparently you can't buy ammo in Los Angeles a week prior and on New Years and the fourth of July. Stupid.


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    I think the people living in the area might be well aware of the hazards of being processed through the county jail down there. LA is a different world. They don't always follow the law down there, and they seem quite content to pony up later for those offenses should the litigants be financially able to see that to a conclusion. Even larger scale gatherings of legally held events have been denied 1st amendment rights, and those insisting have been arrested. Not dismissing the idea mind you; I'm one to insist on my rights more often than not. I'm just saying that it's best to have every duck in a row before this one....bail money, gun that you can spare or lose, and counsel pre-selected.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    bigtoe416 wrote:
    brokenbarrel wrote:
    city of los angeles restricts holsters to police,armed security and ccw holders.........be careful city ord
    The only reference to a holster I could find in the LA city codes was the following:

    SEC. 55.16. SALE OF ULTRACOMPACT FIREARMS PROHIBITED. (Added by Ord. No. 173,875, Eff. 5/18/01.)

    (a) As used in this section, the term “ultracompact firearm” shall mean any pistol, revolver, or other firearm, which has an overall length of six and three quarter inches (6.75") or less or an overall height of four and one half inches (4.5") or less, as measured with the magazine detached.

    (b) As used in this section, the term “dealer” shall mean any person who is engaged in the retail sale of firearms and any retail firearms dealer, as that term is defined in Section 103.314 of this code.

    (c) No dealer or other person shall sell, lend, give, transfer ownership of, or otherwise transfer to any other person any ultracompact firearm.

    (d) No dealer shall process, pursuant to Penal Code Section 12072(d), any ultracompact firearm transaction between persons not licensed as firearms dealers or not possessing Federal Firearms Licenses.

    (e) No dealer or other person shall sell, lend, give, transfer ownership of, or otherwise transfer to any other person any firearm accessory designed to enable or facilitate the carrying of any ultracompact firearm, including but not limited to shoulder holsters, ankle holsters, belt holsters, and other devices designed for the purpose of aiding the concealment of an ultracompact firearm, unless such accessory is designed so that it can be used with a firearm larger than an ultracompact firearm.
    As you can see, this ordinance only is dealing with holsters which are for ultracompact handguns. As a frame of reference, only "subcompact" glocks fall under the minimum length, and would be violating this ordinance.
    As a side note, apparently you can't buy ammo in Los Angeles a week prior and on New Years and the fourth of July. Stupid.
    You will also note that the ordinance deals only with "sell, lend, give, transfer ownership of, or otherwise transfer" and says absolutely nothing about possession. Just like possession of +10 round magazines is legal in and of itself, so is possession of sub-compact holsters. Just can't sell, lend, give, transfer ownership of, or otherwise transfer the sub-compact holster while in Los Angeles.

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    brokenbarrel wrote:
    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    That's why I have been refraining from visiting CalGuns. I just got tired of all the anti-gun rhetoric being mindlessly spewed about over there. I got better things to do than verbally spar with the mentally retarded.
    city of los angeles restricts holsters to police,armed security and ccw holders.........be careful city ord
    At first I was trying to figure out what my post about CalGuns has to do with an alleged LA ordinance.

    Now it is clear the connection is my mention of verbally sparring with retards.

    Seriously though, cite a reliable source, or take the FUD somewhere else. That's forum rules:

    Click here to see the source I'm citing below - http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum1/1.html

    7) If you state a rule of law, it is incumbant upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when avaiable, is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

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    brokenbarrel wrote:
    city of los angeles restricts holsters to police,armed security and ccw holders.........be careful city ord
    Oh, look, it is my friend, Jack. I should greet him. (wait for it...)





    Hi, Jack!

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    I've been posting on this thread at thecalguns site. Yep, lots of hostility over there. I wonder why? Anyway, I said I would be in if properly organized. Anyone else?
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    Hm. I wonder what the new City Attorney Carmen Trutanich would do if 1,2,4,5A rights get violated en masse.

    Just heard him in an LA City Council meeting saying there is a criminal investigation into the Michael Jackson Memorial's handling. Vague, granted, but if the all-things-celebrity immunity isn't in play, one would hope he won't pull any punches for less-public malfeasance.

    I just hope the investigation is swift and clean so he can focus on other matters, should they arise.

    As far as CalGuns goes, if you dare to bear your arms, prepare for pages upon pages (even with maxed posts per page) of insults and hoplophobe rhetoric. The rules are made to be broken there - consequences, what consequences?
    Might as well be CalGunsAtHomeTheRangeAndNowhereElse.net

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    Well, the meeting doesn't have to be IN Los Angeles City, right? I mean, LA County is large enough.

    I propose perhaps Alhambra? Haha.

    I would go to an LA area meet.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    N6ATF wrote:
    Hm. I wonder what the new City Attorney Carmen Trutanich would do if 1,2,4,5A rights get violated en masse.

    Just heard him in an LA City Council meeting saying there is a criminal investigation into the Michael Jackson Memorial's handling. Vague, granted, but if the all-things-celebrity immunity isn't in play, one would hope he won't pull any punches for less-public malfeasance.

    I just hope the investigation is swift and clean so he can focus on other matters, should they arise.

    As far as CalGuns goes, if you dare to bear your arms, prepare for pages upon pages (even with maxed posts per page) of insults and hoplophobe rhetoric. The rules are made to be broken there - consequences, what consequences?
    Might as well be CalGunsAtHomeTheRangeAndNowhereElse.net
    I think I have come up with a new compound word that applies to a lot of the CalGuns members. Ecthetohoplophobia.

    ekthetohoplophobia - the fear of open carry

    ekthetos - exposed oplo - weapon phobia - fear

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    Yep, throw their precious Latin right back at them!

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    Decoligny wrote:
    I think I have come up with a new compound word that applies to a lot of the CalGuns members. Ecthetohoplophobia.

    ekthetohoplophobia - the fear of open carry

    ekthetos - exposed oplo - weapon phobia - fear
    Don't expect that to catch on sir.

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    Regular Member stuckinchico's Avatar
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    What if we get an event that is larger than the PD can handle. Add in Media to cover the event. Contact the lawyers that we use, and see if they will be on stand by for this event. Honestly what is a police going to do with a large crowd of armed citizens??? Cause a riot??? LOL well wouldnt surprise me citing Roney king lol.

    Yes to say the least it will be interesting. Maybe we should OC with shotguns.. no ordinance against that right btw isnt LAs ordnance in violation with state??

    With that many rights that are possibly going to violated maybe a call to the ACLU should be in order. Lets see if we can get the CA branch of ACLU on board. They are big on fighting illegal arrests

    Get over 50 Armed and im on a bus down to join yal.

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    I think we need to consider mutual aid. The larger the demonstration gets, especially a surprise demonstration that doesn't rise to the level of needing a permit, the more likely you can expect to have officers out of their service areas and cities being called to assist.

    The 2-28-09 San Diego UOC meet had about 35 armed, 60 total all in the same general spot, and the hunting for stragglers to violate was handled by a few SDPD officers.

    To put the ratio more in our favor, we should number in the hundreds. I'm not sure if the number should be concentrated all in one place...
    (If the mutual aid system is abused to its breaking point to put down peaceful demonstrations, some agencies might opt not to respond to non-life-threatening requests for cover, leaving the nexus city to stand alone in its civil rights violations.)

    ... or if we should spread out a hundred here, a hundred there, across every city and unincorporated area in the county with more than a couple of officers on duty at a time.
    (This would hopefully make it so every agency has to determine for itself whether it's going to prioritize screwing civil rights on its own turf at the expense of going after actual criminals. Since it makes more sense to lockdown than simultaneously give and request mutual aid, the "follow the civil rights-violating leader " syndrome should be limited.)

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    You guys need to hold on and understand what you have to work with.

    In LA county you would be lucky to find more than a dozen people that OC. You will not be able to get enough to make a "media" case out of it.

    Unless we could get the NorCal or SD crew in, we won't get anything more than a few people having dinner or a lunch. If we got families, then the number might go up, but by how much?

    I think that if we do anything we arrange it like the SanDiego group did. Pick a restaurant that is supportive, organize and communicate with the local PD or sherrifs department.

    Print out some pamphlets and if you can get someone of the media interested then great, but the best idea is to make sure that we and the police can behave ourselves before involving the media.

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    Yeah, gotta start small, think big... eventually.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    If you did have over a hundred people you could really cause a fuss. All you'd have to do is to arrange for everybody to locate themselves in a spread out location and drive there with their firearm locked away. Once everybody is in position, everybody makes an anonymous phone call to the police department saying there is a man standing at <your location> with a gun in a holster, reading a newspaper (or standing around, or eating an apple, or whatever).

    The police department would immediately receive 100 MWAG calls and would have to make the decision on what to do with their officers. Should they deploy resources to handle the man eating the apple or should they ignore him? Hopefully they'd choose the latter.

    The obvious downsides are, after 5 or so MWAG calls, they're going to start writing down people's numbers to investigate at a later time. Also you might divert police officers away from a legit crime where they are needed. Also it might be illegal to report yourself to the police.

    I guess one option to avoid the first two problems would be to have everybody report themselves in a rolling fashion. Every 10 minutes or so. If it is legal to report yourself you could easily change a police department's policy on handling MWAG calls in a matter of a few days.

    Not that I'm recommending anybody do such a thing, just thought it was an interesting idea.

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    Yeah, that might work. I don't see why people calling the police to ask about the legality of their actions on non-emergency lines would be limited to only well-before they actually are doing the action. As long as you don't go third-person POV by pretending you are someone else reporting yourself, or dial 911 for a non-emergency, should be legal.

    We could coordinate a Twitter status checkin, where everyone sends in a Direct Message (private) confirming they are in position, and once everybody is, a go code is sent by the control operator for everyone to make their one call. Best if everyone runs off the same script, citing the 2A and PC (however much it infringes), assuring no criminal or self-harming behavior will be engaged in, and your location so if any paranoid calls come in, you can be immediately identified as the innocent party. So if they decide to dispatch even after all that, we will have consistent PRA'ed recordings (assuming they record non-emergency lines and not just 911) for either criminal defense or USC 1983 civil suits.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    I disagree with some of the suggested tactics above.

    1) I do not think it is a good idea under any circumstances to call the police on yourself or any other open carrier. This activity is not about instigating contact with law enforcement, and besides- there are enough people out there (including 'pro-gunners)with an irrational fear of holstered weapons that they will call for us. If the police arent called, it only demonstrates that despite the assertions California will not tolerate the presence of evil guns, that it is acceptable behavior.

    2) While large numbers are good, I dont believe they are necessary for a successful event. If there are 10 participants showing up at a particular event in a concentrated area, it is probably as effective as 60 participants spread out over a large area. With ten armed individuals, I believe police would have some difficulty in conducting (e) checks without cuffing everyone up, thus expanding the scope from a limited'inspection' to a full-flegeddetention without RAS.

    Media will come in its own time- and I think like Mike does- there is no real distinction between 'good' and 'bad' media- Does that mean I think we should talk to all media under all circumstances? No- but what extent we engage them will be proportional to how we are characterized.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    I look at the calls as a version of self-defense procedure, akin to calling the police on the robber you just shot, before he can get medical attention and claim that you robbed HIM.

    This way everyone would be on the record before their guns even left their trunks (and before any paranoiacs can start calling in) that they are law-abiding citizens, here are the laws covering our activity that we are in full compliance with, and please do not let the paranoiacs alarm you about non-existent threats at our locations.

    Reporting your location for exclusion from civil rights violations should not be done every time you UOC, only as part of a group plan, for maximum effect.

  23. #23
    Regular Member stuckinchico's Avatar
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    ConditionThree wrote:
    I disagree with some of the suggested tactics above.

    1) I do not think it is a good idea under any circumstances to call the police on yourself or any other open carrier. This activity is not about instigating contact with law enforcement, and besides- there are enough people out there (including 'pro-gunners)with an irrational fear of holstered weapons that they will call for us. If the police arent called, it only demonstrates that despite the assertions California will not tolerate the presence of evil guns, that it is acceptable behavior.

    2) While large numbers are good, I dont believe they are necessary for a successful event. If there are 10 participants showing up at a particular event in a concentrated area, it is probably as effective as 60 participants spread out over a large area. With ten armed individuals, I believe police would have some difficulty in conducting (e) checks without cuffing everyone up, thus expanding the scope from a limited'inspection' to a full-flegeddetention without RAS.

    Media will come in its own time- and I think like Mike does- there is no real distinction between 'good' and 'bad' media- Does that mean I think we should talk to all media under all circumstances? No- but what extent we engage them will be proportional to how we are characterized.
    they do this to me every time up here. Ive voice out that they are violating my rights and they dont care

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    Regular Member brokenbarrel's Avatar
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    nukechaser wrote:
    brokenbarrel wrote:
    city of los angeles restricts holsters to police,armed security and ccw holders.........be careful city ord
    Oh, look, it is my friend, Jack. I should greet him. (wait for it...)





    Hi, Jack!
    my name is not jack:P,but if you guys are going to look up a city ord make sure you look at all of the city-pacoima,van nuys,bel-air,hollywood ect.all are city of los angeles(and no im not talking about county).I worked in los angeles and not to tell everything city of los angeles runs all the way up to san fernando valley.POINT reseeda has an ord that makes it illegal to sell a handgun there still city of los angeles.Anyways do as you please but ignorance of the law is no excuse if you dont know dont go-LA county would be a better choice alhambra i know well as suggested cops there are stern but by the book.One last thing i should proble not post on this thread nomore i left the state last month...

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    brokenbarrel wrote:
    ...if you guys are going to look up a city ord make sure you look at all of the city-pacoima,van nuys,bel-air,hollywood ect.all are city of los angeles(and no im not talking about county).I worked in los angeles and not to tell everything city of los angeles runs all the way up to san fernando valley.POINT reseeda has an ord that makes it illegal to sell a handgun there still city of los angeles.Anyways do as you please but ignorance of the law is no excuse if you dont know dont go-LA county would be a better choice alhambra i know well as suggested cops there are stern but by the book.One last thing i should proble not post on this thread nomore i left the state last month...
    I wasn't aware an area could be incorporated into two cities at once. Makes me wonder...

    What if the two corporations (cities) introduced conflicting laws? How would that be resolved?

    Anyhow, if you really want to help us out, then start by following the forum rules and citing a reference. Otherwise, I agree that you shouldn't post here.
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