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Thread: Lets assume this "National CHP" bill gets passed

  1. #1
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    How would it effect our terrible neighbor to the north if we want to carry?

    I know there are severe restrictions on carrying, you have to carry it for business purposes if you get it for that, but if you are the victim of assault you have much more "leeway" to carry.

    Any ideas how it would play out?

    While the bill does scare me a bit, oh how I would love to be able to carry when visiting the folks.

  2. #2
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    TFred, the prognosticator, predicts that even if this bill passes, it will take years of litigation before the law takes effect, and after that, it will take even more years of civil litigation, coupled with multiple 5 to 6 figure punitive awards to victims of hard-headed anti-gun police departments who will insist on providing "danbus-style" treatment to legal concealed carriers, before concealed carry begins to be a normal happening in some of these intensely anti-gun states.

    One problem that will certainly crop up is that many states have no system in place to instantly verify permit holders. This nationwide idea is often compared to drivers licenses, but there is a nation-wide system in place to more or less always validate license holders and the current status of their license.

    Tell me what happens on the side of the road late on a Friday night in New Jersey when, for whatever reason, it comes out that you are carrying a concealed weapon, and you hand the officer a frayed piece of paper that says you are allowed to do so. If your state does not have 24/7 validation capability (a problem which has prevented some reciprocity agreements even now) you're going to end up in jail all weekend until they decide to make a couple calls on Monday morning - or afternoon - to see if it's valid.

    I see a long road ahead, even if this first step opens the door.

    TFred


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    Founder's Club Member Skeptic's Avatar
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    I agree with TFred, but it does start the journey to where I might actually be able to visit Maryland and even drive through the state like a normal human being without fear of arrest.

    Or even, to vacation in NY state and visit some old friends who live there.

    Someday maybe

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    Skeptic wrote:
    I agree with TFred, but it does start the journey to where I might actually be able to visit Maryland and even drive through the state like a normal human being without fear of arrest.

    Or even, to vacation in NY state and visit some old friends who live there.

    Someday maybe
    I agree he is probably right.

    The sad part about NY is how beautiful the entire state is, once you get off the liberal coast. Sad how brain dead policies drag the entire state down.

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    In VA, isn't your permit attached to your DMV record?

    My brother was stopped in Loudoun drivinghiscar which my dad was a co owner of, and was immediatly asked where the gun was. My brother who does not have a permit, had no idea what he was reffering to until the officer addressed him as my dad. He then said that my dad was also a register owner and he had a permit.

    My question is if an out of state cop runs your tags will it pop up on their system.



  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Without doubt some pain will come to out of state CHP holders in the may issue states.

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    Founder's Club Member Skeptic's Avatar
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    Voted down, and I am not sure yet how our Senators voted - it failed by 2 votes.

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    Regular Member crazydude6030's Avatar
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    Skeptic wrote:
    Voted down, and I am not sure yet how our Senators voted - it failed by 2 votes.
    I caught some of Webbs speech on the radio during lunch. He said he was going to vote for it. Then the gentlemen speaking after that (from NJ) somehow thinks that carrying a gun means your going to open fire at a bunch of kids. Seems like emotions came into play here.

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    I believe both VA senators voted in favor....final tally was 58 yea 39 nay

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    Regular Member crazydude6030's Avatar
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    brokerbh wrote:
    I believe both VA senators voted in favor....final tally was 58 yea 39 nay
    hardly veto proof. I swear they made sure that just enough people didn't vote for it.

  11. #11
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    crazydude6030 wrote:
    brokerbh wrote:
    I believe both VA senators voted in favor....final tally was 58 yea 39 nay
    hardly veto proof. I swear they made sure that just enough people didn't vote for it.
    This was a procedural question of whether or not to add the amendment to a Defense spending bill. Veto does not come into play here.

    TFred


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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Concealed arms reciprocity rejected by Senate

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      • By JIM ABRAMS, Associated Press Writer Jim Abrams, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 3 mins ago
    WASHINGTON – In a rare win for gun control advocates, the Senate on Wednesday rejected a measure allowing a person with a concealed weapon permit in one state to also hide his firearm when visiting another state.

    The vote was 58-39 in favor of the provision establishing concealed carry permit reciprocity in the 48 states that have concealed weapons laws. That fell two votes short of the 60 needed to approve the measure, offered as an amendment to a defense spending bill.

    Opponents prevailed in their argument that the measure violated states rights by forcing states with stringent requirements for permits to recognize concealed weapons carriers from states that give out permits to almost any gun owner.

    "This is no minor shift in policy," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., whose state requires people to be fingerprinted, get gun training and to undergo a federal background check before issuing permits. "It in fact would be a sweeping change and I think with some deadly consequences."

    The vote reversed recent trends where Republicans and gun rights Democrats from rural states joined to push pro-gun rights issues and block gun control legislation.

    Congress this year voted to restore the rights of people to carry loaded weapons into national parks and the Senate moved to effectively eviscerate the tough gun control laws of the District of Columbia.

    Congress has also ignored urgings from President Barack Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder to revive a ban on military-style weapons that expired in 2004.

    The concealed weapons measure, promoted by the National Rifle Association and Gun Owners of America, would have made a concealed weapon permit from one state valid in the 47 other states with permit laws. Only Wisconsin and Illinois have no carry permit laws.

    Sen. John Thune, R-S.D., the sponsor, said it would not provide for a national carry permit, and that a visitor to another state would have to obey the limitations of that state, such as bans on concealed weapons in restaurants or other places.

    "Law-abiding individuals have the right to self-defense," even when they cross state lines, Thune said, citing the example of truck drivers who need to protect themselves as they travel.

    Opponents, however, said the 48 states with permits have a broad range of conditions for obtaining those permits: some such as Alaska and Vermont, give permits to almost all gun owners. Others, such as New York, have firearm training requirements and exclude people with drinking problems or criminal records.

    New York Democrat Charles Schumer raised the possibility of his state having to accept gun carriers from states that have few or no restrictions. Thune's proposal, he said, was "the most dangerous piece of legislation to the safety of Americans when it comes to guns since the repeal of the assault weapons ban."

    Thune shot back that if a person from South Dakota with a carry permit visited Central Park in New York City, "Central Park will be a much safer place."

    Other opponents said the proposal infringed on states' rights, usually an important principle for gun rights groups. Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill., said it would override the laws of 11 states — California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, Nebraska, New Jersey, New York, Oregon and Rhode Island — and the District of Columbia — which do not allow carry permit reciprocity with other states.

    Sen. David Vitter, R-La., another sponsor, reminded his colleagues that the NRA and Gun Owners of America were scoring the vote, meaning it would be considered in their election evaluation of lawmakers.

    NRA chief lobbyist Chris W. Cox said the last two decades have shown a strong shift toward gun rights laws. "We believe it's time for Congress to acknowledge these changes and respect the right of self-defense, and the right of self-defense does not stop at state lines," he said.

    Gun control groups were strongly in opposition.
    The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence said Mississippi residents can get a permit without any training, including ever shooting a pistol on a range. These permit holders could carry firearms in New York City, where police have broad discretion to deny permits, or Dallas, where permit applicants must undergo at least 10 hours of training.


    "It is critical to our efforts that people who enter our state abide by the laws of our state which have supported the progress we are making," Newark, N.J., mayor Cory Booker said in a statement. "This is not a law that will in any way support our efforts to create a safer Newark."
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  13. #13
    Regular Member crazydude6030's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    crazydude6030 wrote:
    brokerbh wrote:
    I believe both VA senators voted in favor....final tally was 58 yea 39 nay
    hardly veto proof. I swear they made sure that just enough people didn't vote for it.
    This was a procedural question of whether or not to add the amendment to a Defense spending bill. Veto does not come into play here.

    TFred
    I had not realized that. Thanks for setting me str8

  14. #14
    Regular Member glockfan's Avatar
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    I just wish we had Georgia on the Virginia CHP reciprocity list then I'd be happy.

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    glockfan wrote:
    I just wish we had Georgia on the Virginia CHP reciprocity list then I'd be happy.

    This is were the UTAH permit comes in handy.

    OrApply for a FLORIDA permit.






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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    rob99vmi04 wrote:
    glockfan wrote:
    I just wish we had Georgia on the Virginia CHP reciprocity list then I'd be happy.

    This is were the UTAH permit comes in handy.

    OrApply for a FLORIDA permit.
    Or New Hampshire...

    As for the subject of this thread:
    I was reading that Thune actually wanted this amended to a hate crime prevention bill instead of a defense authorization bill. Might we see this amendment, or a similar one, again in the near future?


  17. #17
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I think you can count on it, since it only failed by 2 votes.

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    virginiatuck wrote:
    rob99vmi04 wrote:
    glockfan wrote:
    I just wish we had Georgia on the Virginia CHP reciprocity list then I'd be happy.

    This is were the UTAH permit comes in handy.

    OrApply for a FLORIDA permit.
    Or New Hampshire...

    As for the subject of this thread:
    I was reading that Thune actually wanted this amended to a hate crime prevention bill instead of a defense authorization bill. Might we see this amendment, or a similar one, again in the near future?
    I don't think you have sssne the end of this. More importantly there are some states that are going to have to take a long hard look at their own laws to do something before this does pass. I really hate to see the Feds get involved in this but a few states are backing them into a corner over it. If the states want to maintain control before the Feds take over the whole deal and start issuing perimits (which is about the last thing we want) then the states need to get together and come up with a plan such as with the drivers license. Otherwise we are going to wind up with a CDL type deal and I sure don't want that.

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