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Thread: Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act Fails

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    Regular Member Huck's Avatar
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    "You can teach 'em, but you cant learn 'em."

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    http://my.earthlink.net/article/us?g...0722-780235333


    This is supposed to be the UNITED States...catch word United. A permit in one state should be allowed in another without any conflict from the said state/s.

    I vote we change this countries name to 'The Individual States'

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    What's sad is to see how drunk the Anti's really are on having this shut down. To see just how ignorant they are.

    I've seen comments like this at the Associated Press:
    "THIS CONTROVERSIAL AMENDMENT WOULD HAVE ALLOWED CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMIT HOLDERS TO CROSS STATE LINES WITH CONCEALED WEAPONS!"
    LOL ! Yes they are serious when they talk like this.

    Theseidiot sheepare sohigh on their victory that they don't seem to realize that in most states- with very few exceptions-YOU CAN ALREADY DO THIS!

    Take a look at the LA Map of Reciprocity; http://www.lsp.org/handguns.html#recip

    I actually enjoy hearing just how STUPID these Sheeple really are.









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    Dustin wrote:
    What's sad is to see how drunk the Anti's really are on having this shut down. To see just how ignorant they are.

    I've seen comments like this at the Associated Press:
    "THIS CONTROVERSIAL AMENDMENT WOULD HAVE ALLOWED CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMIT HOLDERS TO CROSS STATE LINES WITH CONCEALED WEAPONS!"
    LOL ! Yes they are serious when they talk like this.

    Theseidiot sheepare sohigh on their victory that they don't seem to realize that in most states- with very few exceptions-YOU CAN ALREADY DO THIS!

    Take a look at the LA Map of Reciprocity; http://www.lsp.org/handguns.html#recip

    I actually enjoy hearing just how STUPID these Sheeple really are.







    Here is the part that really bites my ass.

    Ready?

    The Anti's were screaming "state's rights! state's rights!" over and over.

    They were constantly bleating "My state should have the right to determine laws for itself! My state shouldn't be burdened with federal regulations that tell us what to do!"

    And then they try to rail laws that do the exact opposite of what the Conceal Carry Reciprocity Act would have done through Congress.

    I bet they actually believe that an Assault Weapons Ban does not interfere with states rights or the BATFE or the Brady Bill.... or any other gun control measure passed on the federal level.

    State's rights only matter to those fools when it's an argument that they don't like.

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    Concealed guns law rejected in close Senate vote

    {The Violence Policy Center, a gun control advocacy group, released a study this week finding that concealed handgun permit holders killed at least seven police officers and 44 private citizens during the two-year period ending in April.


    "The hard facts are that concealed handgun permit holders do not prevent mass shootings, they perpetrate them," said Kristen Rand, the center's legislative director.}

    I did not know this about me!!! :?



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    Disclaimer: Do not confuse me with an anti. I do have to agree with them on the matter of this being a state's rights issue. I also believe that they are being dishonest and don't really care about state's rights, they just hate the idea of an armed public.

    As much as I want to be able to conceal in all states, I think it should be left up to the states to regulate as they wish.

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    Actually, it should be the individual's right, responsibility, and decision as to where and when they want to carry...

    Not the state's or fed's decision.

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    Conceal carrying hasn't been accepted until recent history. In the founding father's time it was seen as shady.

    I realize that our rights don't originate with the Constitution. The Bill of Rights wasn't written solely to protect individual rights, but protect the states from Federal control.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Sorry I don't buy the states rights argument, because the Commerce Clause does give the congress the power to force acceptance of other states permits.

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    What does a CC permit have to do with interstate commerce?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    There are people that don't travel to places because they aren't allowed to be armed there. A sizable fraction of the Nation's 6 million permit holders I estimate. In particular the trucking industry was behind this bill, I would say they affect interstate commerce.

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    There are many places I don't visit and actually go out of my way to avoid (the state of IL comes to mind and yes, I know IL and WI would not have been effected by this amendment) because of this issue. When I do have to travel through those states or areas I try to plan things to avoid spending money there. I have several friends who carry who feel the same way. So yeah, it effects interstate commerce.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    langzaiguy wrote:
    As much as I want to be able to conceal in all states, I think it should be left up to the states to regulate as they wish.
    So, how do you feel about drivers license reciprocity in the U.S?

    Bad?

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    @Longwatch--valid argument about the truckers. I'd support legislation to support truckers 2A rights.

    @Deepdiver--the CC legislation has nothing to do with interstate commerce. You have the right to spend money where you want. I applaud your decision not to support the states who oppose an armed public, but it is completely your decision to do so.

    @Hank T--I love driver's license reciprocity, but states should have the right to decide for themselves which licenses to recognize. It should not be a Federal mandate. Think about the consequences of a state not recognizing other license--it would mean economic disaster for them. I like Deepdiver's idea of not patronizing the tyrannical states.

    Simply put, it's a fantasy of mine to see our country return to the roots of our government--the way our founders would have intended it to be.

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    I don't think those idiots from IL & WI should have been able to vote on this bill, neither offer permits, so whatever they had to say about the matter was BULLSH*T from the minute they stood up.

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    longwatch wrote:
    There are people that don't travel to places because they aren't allowed to be armed there. A sizable fraction of the Nation's 6 million permit holders I estimate.
    Longwatch, how big of a fraction do you estimate it to be? How sizable is it?



    Question for anyone?

    In yesterday's article about this subject there was a reference to the number of concealed carry permits:

    Feinstein said California, the nation's most populous state, has issued about 40,000 concealed gun permits, while Florida has issued 580,000 and Georgia 300,000. Thune said about 5 million people nationwide have concealed weapons permits.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090722/ap_on_go_co/us_concealed_weapons



    Anyone have another (good) more authoritative source for the national total of concealed carry permits? That's an important number for all of us. Basically, the higher it is the better (except for the goof with a gun candidates). We know that number has been increasing steadily, then probably sharply in the last 6-8 months. But how much has it been increasing?





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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    longwatch wrote:
    There are people that don't travel to places because they aren't allowed to be armed there.* A sizable fraction of the Nation's 6 million permit holders I estimate.*
    Longwatch, how big of a fraction do you estimate it to be? How sizable is it?

    *

    Question for anyone?

    In yesterday's article about this subject there was a reference to the number of concealed carry permits:

    Feinstein said California, the nation's most populous state, has issued about 40,000 concealed gun permits, while Florida has issued 580,000 and Georgia 300,000. Thune said about 5 million people nationwide have concealed weapons permits.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090722/ap_on_go_co/us_concealed_weapons

    *

    Anyone have another (good) more authoritative source for the national total of concealed carry permits? That's an important number for all of us. Basically, the higher it is the better (except for the goof with a gun candidates). We know that number has been increasing steadily, then probably sharply in the last 6-8 months. But how much has it been increasing?
    1/3 I'd say, maybe as many as 1/2, have been influenced in their decision to not travel because of whether or not they could carry. It is enough people to cause states to engage their lawyers in forming reciprocity agreements. A real good number to start with would be the number of non resident permits issued by Florida and Utah.

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    jmar254 wrote:
    I don't think those idiots from IL & WI should have been able to vote on this bill, neither offer permits, so whatever they had to say about the matter was BULLSH*T from the minute they stood up.
    I know at least Feingold voted in favor of the bill, not sure about kohl. Idiots from Wisconsin? I hope your talking about the senators, there not the brightest. Hey I can play the blame game too though. I'm 19 and only had a voice for one year of my life so far. Until now the politics and rights have been formed by others of older generations. Who were the idiots that sat on their ass while they made it so someone under 21 couldn't buy a pistol or ammo from a dealer?? You can join the army at 18 but can't buy a pistol from an FFL liscense dealer till 21 LMAO. Hell yeah I love this country! Where were you when this happened? Were on the same side no matter where were from, some things you just can't do anything about.

    COncealed carry passed twice in Wisconsin, the dumbass democratic governor vetoed it TWICE! when I was 16 should I have gone and grabbed his pen while he wasvetoing it? lmao



    Ben









    Ben

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    I couldn't understand the statement in the news "a bill that would have allowed (CCW holders) to CC across state lines failed". I stared at the TV for a while and said, "Um, that's legal in most places already. What was the bill?"

    I'm a states rights kind of guy. I don't want CA telling me what I can carry for self-defense and hunting.Similarly, my right to tell the neighbors of my brothers and sisters in arms what to do ends at my state line.

    Washington already spends too much tax-payer money getting involved in state issues that don't concern the Federal government. If I give them one dime to legislate interstate CC instead of letting the states sort it out between themselves, the other side of it is going to go to federally outlawing my semi-automatic hunting rifle.

    It wasn't too long ago that people said "the United States are" with sovreign states and a right to local rule by the people. It changed to "the United States is" right about the same time people handed power and money over to the federal government to fix non-existent problems in their neighbors bedrooms and back yards.

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    Dispatcher wrote: Failed by two votes??? TWO VOTES??!!!

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    Both senators from Tennessee voted for the amendment...


    even though it was a 10th Amendment violation, it is still a good idea on the surface simply because the states will not come together and respect the Constitution--specifically the 2nd Amendment and Article 4 Sec. 1 of the Constitution....


    The only issues I have is that the feds will get the idea--well you accepted that we "gave" you this right to carry, so now you will accept that we can "take it back"--along with the rest of the 2nd Amendment....that is the major issue I have with it.

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    IF the Feds had passed this IMHO it would have opened the door to more Federal meddling into the States business. And as stated prior to, that if they could "give" they could retract. I think that it belongs at the State level. Fact is, I don't believe in PERMITS to carry concealed. It'a asking PERMISSION for something that is already a right guarenteed by the 2A. Background check is okay, don't mind that, already had one much more thorough than any county cop shop could do. But not everyone has, so I wouldn't mind if that were to take place. But to ask permission,,,BS
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Thomas Jefferson

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    Give it time guys. I would point out that this got as far as it did during a time when Democrats controlled house, senate, and presidency.

    When that collapses next election (which it may be if Republicans can pull themselves together and get serious for ten minutes), we'll maybe give it another go.

    The important thing here is to look forward and *make this an issue* in the midterm elections.

    I will say it was surreal - almost psychedelic - to hear the Left use a states rights argument.

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    Here's the e-mail I got from our Senator Vitter;
    Dear Friend,





    Last week I offered an amendment with Senator Thune to the Department of Defense authorization bill that would have allowed law abiding citizens to exercise their fundamental right to self-defense.



    Under our amendment, individuals with conceal carry permits from their home state, or who are otherwise allowed to carry a firearm in their home state, would have been allowed to carry in any other state that issues permits as long as they followed the host state laws.



    Unfortunately, pro-gun control senators forced our amendment to have a 60 vote threshold, and while our amendment passed overwhelmingly by a margin of 58-39, the amendment fell two votes shy of the 60 vote threshold.



    But I will continue fighting to pass our conceal carry reciprocity bill and for other measures that support the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens to protect themselves and their families.



    Sincerely,

    <http://www.vitter.senate.gov/images/vitter_signature.gif>

    David Vitter

    U.S. Senator



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