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My Court Case

HankT

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T Vance wrote:
HankT wrote:
Why not call 9-1-1?
What are they going to do? I was not able to get the plate number. All I could say is I saw a truck drive by a few times, stop and look at my place. There is no evidence that they are doing anything wrong.

If there is no evidence that they are doing anything wrong, ....um, why do want to talk to them the next time you see them?

Will you be armed with a gun when you "talk to them?"
 

suntzu

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HankT wrote:
T Vance wrote:
As I've been typing this I've noticed a green Ranger pick up truck drive past my house slowly 4 times over the past 15 minutes, sometimes stopping. Everytime they drove past though I could see them staring at different parts of my house as if they were "casing" it.

I'm going to talk to them the next time I see them.
Why not call 9-1-1?
9-1-1 is for emergencies in progress, which a car driving by a house slowly is not...
 

Generaldet

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President, CLSD, Inc., Oxford, Michigan, USA
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T Vance wrote:
I don't know how to upload the video/audio from the DVD I got. I need to get it to someone who does. Plus I'd like to have a few things edited out (like the license plate and such).
Maybe there is someone here that is savy enough to help you with that.
Any volunteers? I would also make a backup copy for yourself if you have not done so already.
 

HankT

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T Vance wrote:
The reason why I want to talk with them is to find out who they are, and if I can help them with anything.


Um...., kind of like when a cop wants tofind out more abouta perfectly law abiding OCer....where there is no evidence that they are doing something wrong...uh, to , um, talk to them?

You mean like that?

You want to do essentially the same thing that a cop does to an OCer that we all chafe against?

Is that it? A consensual encounter, so to speak?

Heyyyyyyyy, are you really LEO 229 posting under a different ID? :p


edit: perghostrider's suggestion
 

PDinDetroit

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SE, Michigan, USA
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Generaldet wrote:
T Vance wrote:
I don't know how to upload the video/audio from the DVD I got. I need to get it to someone who does. Plus I'd like to have a few things edited out (like the license plate and such).
Maybe there is someone here that is savy enough to help you with that.
Any volunteers? I would also make a backup copy for yourself if you have not done so already.
T Vance - see PM.
 

ghostrider

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Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
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HankT wrote:
T Vance wrote:
The reason why I want to talk with them is to find out who they are, and if I can help them with anything.

Um...., kind of like when a cop wants to stop a perfectly law abiding OCer....where there is no evidence that they are doing something wrong...uh, to , um, talk to them?

You mean like that?

You want to do essentially the same thing that a cop does to an OCer that we all chafe against?

Is that it? A consensual encounter, so to speak?

Heyyyyyyyy, are you really LEO 229 posting under a different ID? :p
"stopping" someone to,"talk to them", is NOT a consensual encounter, it is a detainment. Just because some officers and cop apologists try to blur that line doesn't mean that it is consensual. A cop may stop and talk to anyone who is willing to listen, but that if he stops someone, he must have RAS.
 

ghostrider

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T Vance wrote:
...

The female officerasked me if I knew all the other laws pertaining to OCing. At this point something clicked in my head and I figured she was fishing for something and I finally asked her "Am I being detained?". She laughed and said "Oh now you don't want to answer questions". I replied "am I being detained", she said "yes you are being detained", and I said "so I am not free to go". At this point she got frustrated and asked me to go and sit in the car, so I closed the trunk and went back to the car. ...


I went to the courthouse the following day to show my proof of registration and get the ticket waived, but found out it could not be waived and that it was a $130 fine. I pleaded NOT GUILTY to the charge since I knew the reason they stopped me was illegal.
First, Notice how she's all nice until you start asserting your rights and asking her questions. She knows that she's on shaky legal ground, so she sends you to the car to keep from having to interact with you. Unfortunately for her, her coworker was too ignorant to understand that they had already completely blew any evidence that may have been gathered.

Second, this is a very valid reason why these officers need to stop this sort of behavior. It was a valid infraction, but because the officer had no RAS to stop you, you got out of the ticket (no lucky break here, unless you want to call ignorance on the officers part a "lucky break").
 

ghostrider

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T Vance wrote:
Several days later I filed a FOIA and requested any/all material that was related to my incident. I got a copy of the report and at the end of it the officer wrote "I am sending a copy of this report to the prosecuting attorney's office for warrant consideration of carrying a concealed weapon in a motor vehicle. I am also sending a copy of this report to the Jackson County gun board since "T. Vance" has a CPL application pending".

A week later I recieved a letter from the gun board saying they wanted to meet with me. That is another long story, but to make it short I walked out of there with my CPL. :celebrate

After viewing the video footage/audio from the squad cars from my incident I was disgusted in some of the things the officers had to say. When the female officer arrived on the scene and talked with the cop who originally pulled me over she said "Well have you asked him where he's coming from or going cause that's where we can jam him up". After that is when she came and asked me where I was "coming/going from/to".

The officer who originally pulled me over said to his back up officer "Something seems a little off about this guy. I don't know how I feel about people walking around with guns like this".

Later during the stop the female officer said "Can we charge him with tresspassing" to which the backup officer replied "no, security never asked him to leave".

Later in the video after we were "released" the officers were talking amongst themselves. The female officer said "I love it when people start talking about their Constitutional rights" :what:.
And this is precisely why there should be no effort to, "educate" these officers. These officers don't care about the law, they only want to abuse their authority in an effort to oppress people. They didn't care that nothing was amiss. They just didn't like you (or what you were doing) and decided that you should have your life ruined for it. What a bunch of thugs!

You should make multiple copies and distribute them as quickly as possible (send them to me via email please). Make sure the people you send them to will maintain confidence.

Then talk to your lawyer about a 1983 suite if you wish to peruse it. You'll probably be told to keep the info confidential for now. However, if the okay the release of the documents and video/audio,then you should post them to youtube (when you figure out how to do it) , and as many on line forums as you can think of. There are too many people glossing over such outrageous behavior, and too many people making up excuses to not bring this type of behavior to light. Too many people are trying to make OC'ers out to be the trouble makers when this only makes it obvious that it's the police (at least in this case, and probably others) who are the trouble makers. When you post it, make sure to point out how the reason you got out of the infraction was because it was an unlawful stop to begin with (too many people (including many officers) brush the aspect of these unlawful stops, and this is a minor example of how it can come back to bit them).

Also, notice the disdain this piece of scumbag female officer demonstrates toward our Constitutional rights (I very much doubt she wasn't being sarcastic). Like I said, we're better off with the gangbangers down the block than these thugs with badges.
 

HankT

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T Vance wrote:
HankT wrote:
T Vance wrote:
The reason why I want to talk with them is to find out who they are, and if I can help them with anything.


Um...., kind of like when a cop wants tofind out more abouta perfectly law abiding OCer....where there is no evidence that they are doing something wrong...uh, to , um, talk to them?

You mean like that?

You want to do essentially the same thing that a cop does to an OCer that we all chafe against?

Is that it? A consensual encounter, so to speak?

Heyyyyyyyy, are you really LEO 229 posting under a different ID? :p


edit: perghostrider's suggestion

Where as in my situation I could try to talk to these people, use that conversation to get a feel of what they might be doing, get a visual look at them, and a closer look at the truck. I can use this info later if something ever happens to my house.

What is your RAS for wanting to, um, talk to the green Ranger occupants? You've already stated that there is "no evidence that they are doing anything wrong."

Why do you want a "closer look at the truck?" Do you want to look inside the truck?

Why bother them? Shouldn't you just leave them be?

OCers just want to be left alone from inquiring minds. Wouldn't green Ranger occupants feel the same way?

I know that if I were driving a green Ranger, I wouldn't want to talk to some armed guy who is waving me down...
 

a2fireball

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Jun 6, 2009
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Ann Arbor, Michigan, , USA
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HankT wrote:
T Vance wrote:
HankT wrote:
T Vance wrote:
The reason why I want to talk with them is to find out who they are, and if I can help them with anything.


Um...., kind of like when a cop wants tofind out more abouta perfectly law abiding OCer....where there is no evidence that they are doing something wrong...uh, to , um, talk to them?

You mean like that?

You want to do essentially the same thing that a cop does to an OCer that we all chafe against?

Is that it? A consensual encounter, so to speak?

Heyyyyyyyy, are you really LEO 229 posting under a different ID? :p


edit: perghostrider's suggestion

Where as in my situation I could try to talk to these people, use that conversation to get a feel of what they might be doing, get a visual look at them, and a closer look at the truck. I can use this info later if something ever happens to my house.

What is your RAS for wanting to, um, talk to the green Ranger occupants? You've already stated that there is "no evidence that they are doing anything wrong."

Why do you want a "closer look at the truck?" Do you want to look inside the truck?

Why bother them? Shouldn't you just leave them be?

OCers just want to be left alone from inquiring minds. Wouldn't green Ranger occupants feel the same way?

I know that if I were driving a green Ranger, I wouldn't want to talk to some armed guy who is waving me down...
I'm with T Vance on this. If someone is driving repeatedly by my house and sometimes stopping and casing the joint, I would want to talk to them too, and find out what I can. If they don't want to talk to me, they don't have to stop.
 

Citizen

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Fairfax Co., VA
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Thanks for the incident report, TVance.

Thanks also for the info about what was in the recordings. Its a great example of why its not smart to talk to cops, especially friendly ones. The smart onesknow they need your willing cooperation (answers).
 

DanM

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Jul 11, 2008
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West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
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HankT wrote:
T Vance wrote:
As I've been typing this I've noticed a green Ranger pick up truck drive past my house slowly 4 times over the past 15 minutes, sometimes stopping. Everytime they drove past though I could see them staring at different parts of my house as if they were "casing" it.

I'm going to talk to them the next time I see them.
Why not call 9-1-1?
Because 9-1-1 is for emergencies?
 

ghostrider

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Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
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DanM wrote:
HankT wrote:
T Vance wrote:
As I've been typing this I've noticed a green Ranger pick up truck drive past my house slowly 4 times over the past 15 minutes, sometimes stopping. Everytime they drove past though I could see them staring at different parts of my house as if they were "casing" it.

I'm going to talk to them the next time I see them.
Why not call 9-1-1?
Because 9-1-1 is for emergencies?
I think this is one of those times where it can be said, "Don't feed the troll."
 
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