Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27

Thread: "Patron with gun won—that time"

  1. #1
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,519

    Post imported post

    Michael Paul Williams asks Colin Goddard what he thinks about the incident:

    Published: July 21, 2009

    July 19, 2009: Man who fatally wounded robber recounts tense shootout

    Colin Goddard can relate to the experience of the frightened patrons who ducked behind counters or fled Golden Food Market during a robbery-turned-shootout.

    Goddard was wounded April 16, 2007, when Seung-Hui Cho burst into a Virginia Tech classroom and opened fire. Now 23 and a Tech graduate, God dard works as an intern at the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence in Washington.

    When told how a gun-toting customer had felled a man who'd shot the owner of Golden Food Market, Goddard hardly sounded like an anti-gun reactionary.

    "You can't deny what happened, you know," he said. "The guy was able to successfully defend himself. Our movement is not against responsible gun owners exercising that right when their lives are in danger."

    "That worked out in that situation," said Goddard, whose family lives in Richmond. "There are other situations where that doesn't work out. And that situation could have worked out in a million different ways."

    Recalling that fatal day at Tech, he doubts that a classmate with a firearm could have produced a similar outcome. Things simply happened too fast to respond, he said. "I didn't realize what was going on until I had been shot."

    The hero of the Golden Food Market incident does not want his identity released. But if he were known, he'd surely be a darling of the National Rifle Association and held up as an example of how a weapon in the right hands can deter crime and save innocent lives.

    Richmond Commonwealth's Attorney Michael N. Herring must wince at such a thought. He hopes what happened on Jefferson Davis Highway on July 11 does not inspire a trend.

    "No. No. It's not the answer," Herring said. "And as fortunate and heroic as the actions were, ultimately we were just plain lucky. Most citizens are not trained to shoot. And you can't judge the rightfulness of the conduct by the outcome."

    And, as Herring pointed out, the first time someone in a similar situation misses the bad guy and nails a bystander, "then we will be at our wits' end on how to respond to that. And it will surely happen as long as we continue to fire guns in public."

    The customer was within the law by using lethal force as a last resort in coming to the aid of someone facing possible death, Herring said. But clearly, in Herring's view, he should be viewed as an exception rather than an example.

    Police, with all their training, don't always respond successfully to those situations. Civilians should not make a habit of trying.

    Becca Knox, director of research for the Brady Campaign, says there are fewer than 200 justifiable gun homicides each year out of a total of more than 10,000 gun homicides.

    "There's absolutely no evidence that if you make [a gun] easier to carry, gun violence goes down," Knox said.

    What happened at Golden Food Market was a singular event carried out by an apparently remarkable individual. But anyone viewing this as a sort of template in the war on crime is tragically mistaken.

    A society in which citizens see themselves as the last line of defense already has lost the battle.

    Contact Michael Paul Williams at (804) 649-6815 or mwilliams@timesdispatch.com.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    100

    Post imported post

    what I essentially am getting from this is brady advocates are saying, its better for people to not try to defend themselves and other innocents, but just hope the criminal is compassionate and the death toll low. i believe that they are under the opinion that criminala are expert marksmen and law abiding citizens are even more of a threat to innocents with a gun and we must all have an i.q of a caveman.


    gosh darnit its so frusterating they think this way. Like in v-tech shootings saying it prolly wouldnt have helped. Honey your odds of livin go up just by having a gun and the odds of the death toll being lower go up too. Its better to try than just assume you'll always fail otherwise nobody would ever accomplish anything.

  3. #3
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Newport News, VA, ,
    Posts
    1,586

    Post imported post

    MirkoCrocop wrote:
    what I essentially am getting from this is brady advocates are saying, its better for people to not try to defend themselves and other innocents, but just hope the criminal is compassionate and the death toll low. i believe that they are under the opinion that criminala are expert marksmen and law abiding citizens are even more of a threat to innocents with a gun and we must all have an i.q of a caveman.


    gosh darnit its so frusterating they think this way. Like in v-tech shootings saying it prolly wouldnt have helped. Honey your odds of livin go up just by having a gun and the odds of the death toll being lower go up too. Its better to try than just assume you'll always fail otherwise nobody would ever accomplish anything.
    If you find yourself in a similar situation, and a brady advocate is handy, grab him/her to use as a shield.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Herndon, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    260

    Post imported post

    Is it just me...or does the media go out of their way to ensure every last detail of any conversation with or statements by the Brady and anti-gun people gets full and empathetic coverage including their characterization of a person who saved the lives of (how ever many) people as just some peculiar oddity who was lucky and cannot possibly be a good example to anyone.

    ...and the Commonwealth's Attorney agrees with him?

    The police and the entire justice apparatus of the Commonwealth of Virginia was absolutely impotent to intervene and save the lives of the people in that store...and yet the CW Attorney has the audacity cast doubt on the lawful and heroic actions of the citizen with the statement "And you can't judge the rightfulness of the conduct by the outcome." I think in this case we can, we have and we are united. I think Michael N. Herring should be looking for a new job.



  5. #5
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Post imported post

    A society in which citizens see themselves as the last line of defense already has lost the battle.
    From the 2nd Amendment:

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
    According to our founders, the citizens ARE AND ALWAYS HAVE BEEN the first line of defense. If it was to be discovered that Constitutional and statutory law gives (no, guarantees) WE THE PEOPLE explicit domain over our own sovereignty and security, millions of local law enforcement and federal thugs would be out of jobs.

    I have been reading Edwin Vieira's Constitutional Homeland Security in preparation for a muster/meet-n-greet in my area to restore and reform the Constitutional Militia as a viable alternative to the invasive and egregious activities of government and "law" into the lives of the people.

    This is not an invitation to restart the debate/thread I that was locked, just a comment regarding the ignorant quislings and politicos who, either by their actions or inaction, have permitted the usurpation of fundamental Constitutional law right out from under WE THE PEOPLE through generations of misinformation, propaganda and outright lies regarding the relationship between government and people. Government is meant to be the servant and WE THE PEOPLE the master.

    Deo Vindice

    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member Skeptic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Goochland, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    585

    Post imported post

    Yes so much better if this thug had executed all the witnesses like he had started to do before the gun owner stepped up.

  7. #7
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849

    Post imported post

    So much crap and drivel, it's hard to imagine anyone thinking like that. I would bet that if they were in a deadly situation, they would want to have a gun in hand. It's easy to quarterback from the bench, when you're not being faced with something like RIGHT NOW.

    Also, he mentions missing someone and hitting an innocent party. According to the Virginia Gun Owner's Guide, if you are justifiably defending your life or that of someone else and you hit an innocent person, you cannot be criminally charged. This doesn't mean you can't be sued, however.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682

    Post imported post

    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Also, he mentions missing someone and hitting an innocent party. According to the Virginia Gun Owner's Guide, if you are justifiably defending your life or that of someone else and you hit an innocent person, you cannot be criminally charged. This doesn't mean you can't be sued, however.

    Could you provide the citation or quote from the bookfor that, please?

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  9. #9
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,228

    Post imported post

    All I have to say in response to this article, and his short video online, is what unbelievable ignorance. And I do mean ignorance in the sense of his willful ignoring of facts, statistics and just plain common sense...... Incredible.

  10. #10
    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    on a rock in the james river
    Posts
    1,453

    Post imported post

    I'm gonna plagiarize all of y'alls points this evening and see if I can get it published in the Richmond Times Disgrace.

    Particularly egregious is his editorializing "A society in which citizens see themselves as the last line of defense already has lost the battle."

    What, pray tell, is my last line of defense if NOT myselfyou #$$$@!& idiot? An appeal to on high? A last minute rescue by law enforcement? My two 35 lb lap dogs? Hope for an earthquake before he finishes me off?

    I'm sure it sounded good when he wrote it, but it comes off as unbelievably stupid when I read it.

    Why isn't he on the editorial page?






    Remember Peter Nap and Skidmark. Do them proud. Be active. Be well informed. ALL rights matter.

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when you may have to back up your acts with your life."

    --Robert A. Heinlein

    Hey NSA! *&$# you. Record this--- MOLON LABE!

  11. #11
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,519

    Post imported post

    riverrat10k wrote:
    I'm gonna plagiarize all of y'alls points this evening and see if I can get it published in the Richmond Times Disgrace.

    Particularly egregious is his editorializing "A society in which citizens see themselves as the last line of defense already has lost the battle."

    ...

    Why isn't he on the editorial page?
    Nice moniker! Disgrace, indeed.

    You ask a great question. Why isn't he on the EDITORIAL page?

  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,602

    Post imported post

    All of the news that is fit to distort.

    Yata hey

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Rocky River, OH, U.S.A.
    Posts
    2,086

    Post imported post

    The guy seems to be SORRY not only that good good guy won, but that he survived.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    US
    Posts
    3,156

    Post imported post

    Police, with all their training, don't always respond successfully to those situations. Civilians should not make a habit of trying.

    Somebody for the last freaking time tell this guy police officers are civilians too.

    All this does is further the "us vs. them" mentality among some LEOs and citizens alike.

    I for one won't lie down on the ground cowering, waiting to be executed. Never.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,228

    Post imported post

    nova wrote:
    Police, with all their training, don't always respond successfully to those situations. Civilians should not make a habit of trying.

    Somebody for the last freaking time tell this guy police officers are civilians too.

    All this does is further the "us vs. them" mentality among some LEOs and citizens alike.

    I for one won't lie down on the ground cowering, waiting to be executed. Never.
    Not just that but listen to what he's saying. Let the bad guy shoot whoever he wants because you being a complete idiot might maybe possibly shoot someone that the bad guy wasn't going to shoot...... How freakin' ignorant can you get???

  16. #16
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849

    Post imported post

    skidmark wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Also, he mentions missing someone and hitting an innocent party. According to the Virginia Gun Owner's Guide, if you are justifiably defending your life or that of someone else and you hit an innocent person, you cannot be criminally charged. This doesn't mean you can't be sued, however.

    Could you provide the citation or quote from the bookfor that, please?

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    Sure. I'll have to do it when I get home from work. I was really surprised when I read that one, but I think the idea is based upon the greater need concept (I hope that is correct). Something like the defense of your life when in imminent danger is greater than a passerby getting hit accidentally.

    I did have a lawyer tell me that while the Virginia Gun Owner's Guide is good to have, it is still a collection of things, etc.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    192

    Post imported post

    M P Williams is one of the many reasons that we no longer subscribe to the times dispatch.

    I won't advertise in it and the only time I buy it is if I can't scrounge up a sports section when my son makes the highlights for American Legion baseball games.

    All the news that is fit to line a bird cage....

  18. #18
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849

    Post imported post

    skidmark wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Also, he mentions missing someone and hitting an innocent party. According to the Virginia Gun Owner's Guide, if you are justifiably defending your life or that of someone else and you hit an innocent person, you cannot be criminally charged. This doesn't mean you can't be sued, however.

    Could you provide the citation or quote from the bookfor that, please?

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    The Virginia Gun Owner's Guide, 2006 edition, page 111, item #9.

    "If an innocent third party is killed by a stray shot during mutual combat, each person engaged in the combat is equally guilty.

    In stark contrast to this, in the case of a legitimate self-defense shooting, the person acting in self defense [sic] is not criminally responsible for an injury or death from a stray bullet. This is no guarantee that you will not be pursued in civil court, even if you are found not guilty."


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,602

    Post imported post

    SouthernBoy wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Also, he mentions missing someone and hitting an innocent party. According to the Virginia Gun Owner's Guide, if you are justifiably defending your life or that of someone else and you hit an innocent person, you cannot be criminally charged. This doesn't mean you can't be sued, however.

    Could you provide the citation or quote from the bookfor that, please?

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    The Virginia Gun Owner's Guide, 2006 edition, page 111, item #9.

    "If an innocent third party is killed by a stray shot during mutual combat, each person engaged in the combat is equally guilty.

    In stark contrast to this, in the case of a legitimate self-defense shooting, the person acting in self defense [sic] is not criminally responsible for an injury or death from a stray bullet. This is no guarantee that you will not be pursued in civil court, even if you are found not guilty."
    Remind me to have a copy of VGO handy if I am ever faced with a personal problem like that. :? I'm thinking negligent homicide or similar.

    Is there no cite to statute or case law?

    Yata hey

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  20. #20
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849

    Post imported post

    Grapeshot wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Also, he mentions missing someone and hitting an innocent party. According to the Virginia Gun Owner's Guide, if you are justifiably defending your life or that of someone else and you hit an innocent person, you cannot be criminally charged. This doesn't mean you can't be sued, however.

    Could you provide the citation or quote from the bookfor that, please?

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    The Virginia Gun Owner's Guide, 2006 edition, page 111, item #9.

    "If an innocent third party is killed by a stray shot during mutual combat, each person engaged in the combat is equally guilty.

    In stark contrast to this, in the case of a legitimate self-defense shooting, the person acting in self defense [sic] is not criminally responsible for an injury or death from a stray bullet. This is no guarantee that you will not be pursued in civil court, even if you are found not guilty."
    Remind me to have a copy of VGO handy if I am ever faced with a personal problem like that. :? I'm thinking negligent homicide or similar.

    Is there no cite to statute or case law?

    Yata hey
    An excellent question and I don't know. I attended a seminar this past Saturday evening where the host speaker was an attorney versed in this area of law (he is also a member of this website). I wish I had posed this question to him.

    I don't believe I'd want to be a test case in a county known for its bias against carrying defensive sidearms.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  21. #21
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373

    Post imported post

    I was interested by this phrase, "And that situation could have worked out in a million different ways.", as though the armed response were some kind of random event, like a thunderstorm. *The lightening happened to hit the right bad guy this time. *



    I really have to wonder why he thinks there could have been a million other possible outcomes. *And do any of them have to do with patrons spontaneously combusting?

    I also liked this quip:
    "Police, with all their training, don't always respond successfully to those situations. Civilians should not make a habit of trying."

    First, most folks working as Police don't get much training - only what meets DCJS minimum standards plus whatever their local community is wiling to pay for; I always enjoy the situation where I'm cross-examining a cop in court, and the prosecutor tries to make a big deal out of his expertise derived from his training. *It always turns out to be a half-day classroom course taught by some sargent with an overhead projector, and the cop can't answer any questions about what he's supposed to have learned.

    So I don't regard that as much of a comparison. *I've know a few cops and ex-cops who were really good with firearms, but that's because they enjoyed shooting. *Most of 'em have the same approach to the gun as a carpenter does to the hammer.

    Secondly, what's up with the term, "civilians"? *Like cops aren't "civilians"? *Or have the police departments been militarized?

    And finally, what about the idea that one might make a "habit" of being a potential victim of acts of violence? *I've got a fire extinguisher, but that doesn't mean I have a habit of living in houses that burn down. *It does mean that I have learned to use the fire extinguisher in the unlikely event that my house does catch fire.

    Is this prosecutor seriously proposing that people should not be prepared to defend themselves if necessary? *

    He was right about one thing, though, there's no substitute for good training, and everybody ought to get some. *And lots of practice, too.

    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  22. #22
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373

    Post imported post

    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Also, he mentions missing someone and hitting an innocent party. According to the Virginia Gun Owner's Guide, if you are justifiably defending your life or that of someone else and you hit an innocent person, you cannot be criminally charged. This doesn't mean you can't be sued, however.



    *


    Could you provide the citation or quote from the book*for that, please?



    stay safe.



    skidmark
    The Virginia Gun Owner's Guide, 2006 edition, page 111, item #9.



    "If an innocent third party is killed by a stray shot during mutual combat, each person engaged in the combat is equally guilty.



    In stark contrast to this, in the case of a legitimate self-defense shooting, the person acting in self defense [sic] is not criminally responsible for an injury or death from a stray bullet. This is no guarantee that you will not be pursued in civil court, even if you are found not guilty."
    Remind me to have a copy of VGO handy if I am ever faced with a personal problem like that. :?* I'm thinking negligent homicide or similar.



    Is there no cite to statute or case law?



    ******** Yata hey


    An excellent question and I don't know. I attended a seminar this past Saturday evening where the host speaker was an attorney versed in this area of law (he is also a member of this website). I wish I had posed this question to him.



    I don't believe I'd want to be a test case in a county known for its bias against carrying defensive sidearms.




    I didn't look up any case authority, but I'm quite confident that the quotation is an accurate representation of the law in Virginia. *Actually, in a defensive shooting where an innocent bystander is struck, the assailant is criminally responsible, regardless of who fired the bullet. *There's a special kind of murder, called "felony murder", in which a person who is engaged in the commission of a felony (whether violent or not), and people (usually cops) who try to apprehend him end up killing a bystander (or themselves); the felon is guilty of "felony murder".

    So, for example, Felon is in Homeowner's home at night for the purpose of stealing from the household safe, no question it's burglary. *No one who lives there is present. *Cops come in and shoot at Felon, missing him, but killing the baby in the apartment next door (older building without masonry partition walls). *Felon is liable for the murder of the baby.

    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  23. #23
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849

    Post imported post

    user wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Also, he mentions missing someone and hitting an innocent party. According to the Virginia Gun Owner's Guide, if you are justifiably defending your life or that of someone else and you hit an innocent person, you cannot be criminally charged. This doesn't mean you can't be sued, however.






    Could you provide the citation or quote from the bookfor that, please?



    stay safe.



    skidmark
    The Virginia Gun Owner's Guide, 2006 edition, page 111, item #9.



    "If an innocent third party is killed by a stray shot during mutual combat, each person engaged in the combat is equally guilty.



    In stark contrast to this, in the case of a legitimate self-defense shooting, the person acting in self defense [sic] is not criminally responsible for an injury or death from a stray bullet. This is no guarantee that you will not be pursued in civil court, even if you are found not guilty."
    Remind me to have a copy of VGO handy if I am ever faced with a personal problem like that. :? I'm thinking negligent homicide or similar.



    Is there no cite to statute or case law?



    Yata hey


    An excellent question and I don't know. I attended a seminar this past Saturday evening where the host speaker was an attorney versed in this area of law (he is also a member of this website). I wish I had posed this question to him.



    I don't believe I'd want to be a test case in a county known for its bias against carrying defensive sidearms.




    I didn't look up any case authority, but I'm quite confident that the quotation is an accurate representation of the law in Virginia. Actually, in a defensive shooting where an innocent bystander is struck, the assailant is criminally responsible, regardless of who fired the bullet. There's a special kind of murder, called "felony murder", in which a person who is engaged in the commission of a felony (whether violent or not), and people (usually cops) who try to apprehend him end up killing a bystander (or themselves); the felon is guilty of "felony murder".

    So, for example, Felon is in Homeowner's home at night for the purpose of stealing from the household safe, no question it's burglary. No one who lives there is present. Cops come in and shoot at Felon, missing him, but killing the baby in the apartment next door (older building without masonry partition walls). Felon is liable for the murder of the baby.
    Thank you user for you weigh in on this one. While the text is clear in the Gun Owner's Guide, it's always good to hear from a practicing source.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682

    Post imported post

    I learn new things every day. Never knew the felony murder rule could be applied that way in a self-defense setting.

    With that in mind, I'm going to suppose that a Commonwealth's Attoeney, even in a jurisdiction known to be unfriendly to law-abiding gun owners/toters, would rather go after the BG who most likely has a rap sheet than put the GG on trial.

    What would make the situation better is if the General Assembly got around to passing a civil immunity bill. We have castle doctrine via common law, and "stand your ground" outside the home by statute.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Sterling, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    125

    Post imported post

    Repeater wrote:
    Becca Knox, director of research for the Brady Campaign, says there are fewer than 200 justifiable gun homicides each year out of a total of more than 10,000 gun homicides.
    We all know this particular piece of stat does not capture a lot of self-defense scenarios, but even if it's true, is she saying those 200 people should have sacrificed their lives for the cause of Brady Campaign?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •