Want To Remove All Of The LFUCG CCW Prohibited Signs?

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I saw a sign prohibiting concealed carry in a Lexington park building this past Monday. It was on the inside of the door. I was there for a one hour meeting, concealed carrying the entire time and didn't see the sign until I was leaving. That seems like a dumb place to post a sign like that, sort of like putting a sign on I-64 saying, "45 MPH, PREVIOUS TEN MILES".

My first thought was, "Well, I guess I won't go to any more neighborhood association meetings." Then I thought about it for a bit and changed my mind. My new plan is, "I'm going to open carry at the next meeting!" Time to raise some awareness!

I've been going to the neighborhood association meetings for a couple of years so they know me and I'm not a threat to them.

The sign just appeared. I don't think the city council will expect their signs prohibiting concealed carry to cause a lot of people to open carry in Lexington Fayette Urban County Government buildings, but wouldn't it be great if that's what we did? They will have aided us in educating the public about our right to keep and bear arms. It would probably cause some media attention, and rather than the city's intention of preventing guns in buildings, they would force the concealed guns out into the open, in plain sight, where people would notice them, comment on them, and eventually realize that armed citizens are not so bad. We're your neighbors, coworkers and friends.

Holy unintended consequences, Batman!

Best of all, Kentucky's preemption law prevents the LFUCG from regulating open carry, so the concealed carry that wasn't advocating gun rights would be traded for open carry in public buildings by the city council's actions.

If a hundred open carry advocates each carried in a city building every business day, and when asked about it replied, "That sign requires that I open carry instead of carrying a concealed weapon. I'm just obeying the sign.", I wonder how long it'd be before the signs came down?

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Liberty4Ever wrote:

I saw a sign prohibiting concealed carry in a Lexington park building this past Monday. It was on the inside of the door. I was there for a one hour meeting, concealed carrying the entire time and didn't see the sign until I was leaving. That seems like a dumb place to post a sign like that, sort of like putting a sign on I-64 saying, "45 MPH, PREVIOUS TEN MILES".

My first thought was, "Well, I guess I won't go to any more neighborhood association meetings." Then I thought about it for a bit and changed my mind. My new plan is, "I'm going to open carry at the next meeting!" Time to raise some awareness!

I've been going to the neighborhood association meetings for a couple of years so they know me and I'm not a threat to them.

The sign just appeared. I don't think the city council will expect their signs prohibiting concealed carry to cause a lot of people to open carry in Lexington Fayette Urban County Government buildings, but wouldn't it be great if that's what we did? They will have aided us in educating the public about our right to keep and bear arms. It would probably cause some media attention, and rather than the city's intention of preventing guns in buildings, they would force the concealed guns out into the open, in plain sight, where people would notice them, comment on them, and eventually realize that armed citizens are not so bad. We're your neighbors, coworkers and friends.

Holy unintended consequences, Batman!

Best of all, Kentucky's preemption law prevents the LFUCG from regulating open carry, so the concealed carry that wasn't advocating gun rights would be traded for open carry in public buildings by the city council's actions.

If a hundred open carry advocates each carried in a city building every business day, and when asked about it replied, "That sign requires that I open carry instead of carrying a concealed weapon. I'm just obeying the sign.", I wonder how long it'd be before the signs came down?

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Check the KRS. I believe that KRS 237.110 will also cover open carry as well inside buildings owned by local, county or state government. They can not regulate anything but the building. If I am incorrect show me where I am mistaken and I will fight with you.

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hotrod wrote:

Check the KRS. I believe that KRS 237.110 will also cover open carry as well inside buildings owned by local, county or state government. They can not regulate anything but the building. If I am incorrect show me where I am mistaken and I will fight with you.

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Thanks for the specific KRS so I could check on your concerns.

Thirteen pages of legalese. Ugh.

It appears that the only sections of the Concealed Carry law that might impact this discussion are sections 16 and 17.

Section 16 lists the places where concealed deadly weapons are not permitted. They include police stations, sheriff's offices, detention facilities, prisons, jails, courthouses, court rooms, court proceedings, any legislative meetings including city council meetings and the Kentucky General Assembly (the legislators can carry concealed), bars where alcohol is served, elementary or secondary schools without the consent of school authorities, day care centers (other than the owner may carry concealed in a home based day care), the controlled access area of an airport, or any area where federal law prohibits firearms (Post Office, etc.). I don't see how any of these CDW restrictions applies to open carry, and none of them would prevent concealed carry in most government buildings if the city hadn't passed an ordinance and posted signs under KRS 237.115 (2).

Section 17 relates to employers prohibiting concealed deadly weapons at work, but it does not seem to regulate open carry at all, although I believe private property owners do have the right to deny access to people carrying firearms, but basically they ask the gun owner to leave and if they don't leave they can be charged with trespassing which is something like a $25 fine. If the police were involved to eject someone from the property, they'd probably tack on disorderly conduct and probably some other vague laws to pad up the fines.

I didn't see anything in the concealed carry laws (KRS 237.110) that would prevent me from open carrying in the next neighborhood association meeting in the little building in the city park. I think the big city government building at 200 East Main Street would probably be OK too, other than any rooms where the city council meets. I'm not sure about that, but I don't think the entire building could be designated as a legislative assembly, but I'd need to check that to be sure.

I'd definitely want to err on the side of being absolutely 100% legal. When standing up for your rights, you need to know exactly what those rights are, and the pages of legalese don't make that easy to do. On the plus side, we could determine the easy and obvious and just do that. We wouldn't need to skate on the thin edge to be effective.

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Sorry. This was a double post because the original post hung up, wasn't there, I posted again and then there were two. I wish I could have just deleted it, but all I could do was edit the second post and delete the text.

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Furthermore, Holland v.s. Commonwealth (KY Court of Appeals) stated the KY legislature ONLY has the authority to regulate concealed carry.

This begs another question. There is a statute banning all firearms from schools, open carry or concealed. I wonder if this would hold up in court?

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After looking at my original reply, you are correct. When you go off memory rather than investigation that is what happens. Before I looked up KRS 237 I thought it refered to carrying of a weapon versus carrying a concealed weapon. I was wrong. As for open carry not regulated, I think you would be correct.

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I don't know about bars but isn't the school restriction a federal decree?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990

I didn't see any wiggle room for states to avoid participating, so I'm not sure what I was remembering about CA and UT. I thought those two states had opted out somehow, and I had read someone describing their wife being a teacher in Utah and carrying concealed in class, maybe a year ago.

I also wasn't surprised that the federal government used the Interstate Commerce Clause to justify their meddling in state affairs like schools. Totally ridiculous.