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Thread: Logan City request self-rule on guns

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    Here's a quick follow up to the story covered previously at http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum52/28403.html At the last city council meeting, the council indicated that they would act to remove or modify the city's gun laws. Now they are saying that they do not intend to modify their laws and that they want to be able to control gun laws at a local level and that state preemption should go away - and they intend to file a formal resolution to the legislature requesting this.

    If you are a Logan resident (and even if you're not), act now by contacting the mayor and city council and demand that they begin obeying state law now (after my formal complaint, they've already received and are ignoring a direct dictate from the attorney general to get rid of these laws "as quickly as actionable") and let them know how absolutely insane it would be to get rid of preemption laws. Maybe remind them how well that went for the UofU.

    And then let's make a VERY GOOD showing at the city council meeting - should be September 1 @ 5:30, though they snuck all of this in on us by not publishing the agenda ahead of time, so it could happen in August. I'll try to find out.

    Here's an article that ran today in Logan's Herald Journal newspaper. http://hjnews.townnews.com/articles/...4-07-23-09.txt

    City may request self-rule on guns

    LOGAN — Councilwoman Laraine Swenson wants the city — rather than the state — to have the final say on local gun laws.

    At Tuesday night’s Municipal Council meeting, a majority of the elected body, at the urging of Swenson, directed City Attorney Kymber Housley to prepare a resolution to send to state legislators expressing the city’s desire to set its own firearms rules.

    “I would like for Logan to have that option to make that decision ourselves,” Swenson said. “I don’t expect anything to come of it but I would like them to know.”

    Following a state Supreme Court ruling that the University of Utah could not ban students from possessing guns on campus, the state Legislature enacted uniform firearm laws in 2004 saying that residents statewide can carry guns with a permit. State regulations trump local ones.

    Along with several other cities, Logan didn’t change its ordinance banning the carrying of guns in the city after the state laid down its law.

    Dropping Logan’s ordinance seemed to be a housekeeping issue until Swenson’s move Tuesday.

    Councilwoman Tami Pyfer thinks it’s ill-advised. She was alone in opposing the resolution. Mayor Randy Watts was absent.

    Pyfer said she would prefer local control but given the overriding state law, “I don’t know what we would accomplish at this point,” she said, noting the blow back from gun rights advocates surely in store.

    Housley said: “I guarantee the local chapter of the NRA will be all over this,” he said. “There will be no doubt about what’s going on in Logan.”

    In an interview Wednesday, Housley said he spoke with some councilmembers after the meeting. He said they resolved to further review existing laws before taking their case to the state.

    As it stands, Logan’s law against carrying guns means nothing — state law rules, Housley said.

    “The bottom line is municipalities no longer have the authority,” he said, adding that as far as he understands no councilmember opposes deleting the city’s old ordinance. “Some of them just want to look at a bigger picture.”

    A review of court records shows the city hasn’t prosecuted a gun-carrying case in the last five years, Housley said. He doesn’t recall any cases in his 14 years with the city.

    Logan’s antiquated gun ordinance hit the public stage earlier this month when Smithfield resident Jared Smith pushed city leaders to do away with it. A group including Smith has persuaded other Utah cities to get rid of their old laws.

    Smith, who is out of town on business, said he’s surprised at the city’s approach.

    “I think the attorney general has provided more than ample clarification on this issue,” Smith said. “I guess I don’t know what the issue is. It indicates to me the city is out to tighten the noose on gun rights.”

    Though the local law carries no real weight, “our beef is people think they are enforceable,” he said.

    Housley said the issue should come before the council again in September.

  2. #2
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    For some reason, I expected something like this.

    Time they get pushed a little harder on this issue.

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    thx997303 wrote:
    For some reason, I expected something like this.

    Time they get pushed a little harder on this issue.
    Sure, like pushed right out of office.

    Jared Smith for Logan City Council!

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    Just give me a date and a time I will plan on being their.

    Well lets get a Head count and plan a Open Carry meeting for the Next council meeting. If I can get enough people togther then I say lets go and support our cause.

    I can work on the press releases when the event is confirmed and people will show up OC'ing and in force.

    I need at least 5 people who are willing and are commited to show up. I am planning to take a day off work to show up.

    Please post here or PM me if you can dedicate some time to show up to the meeting.

    Thanks in advance

    Zach
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    City may request self-rule on guns


    Councilwoman Tami Pyfer thinks it’s ill-advised. She was alone in opposing the resolution. Mayor Randy Watts was absent.

    Pyfer said she would prefer local control but given the overriding state law, “I don’t know what we would accomplish at this point,” she said, noting the blow back from gun rights advocates surely in store.

    Housley said: “I guarantee the local chapter of the NRA will be all over this,” he said. “There will be no doubt about what’s going on in Logan.”



    Smart lady. And she's willing to not follow the herd...

    And note who Housley dreads hearing from.... N-R-A, three little initials that strike fear in the hearts of antis all across this great land.







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    I remind all here that this year is when most municipal elections are held.

    Typically about 1/2 of a city council are up for election every two years. So even if Ms. Pfyer is one of those up, there should be at least one or two other council seats up this year as well. If the incumbents are seeking re-election they should lose.

    Get the word out to everyone you know who lives in Logan. Register to vote, and vote in both the primary and General election. I believe the date for filing is past, but if anyone who voted for this is running unopposed, recruit a write-in candidate to run against them.

    Please be sure to PM, email, or otherwise keep me up to date on what is happening so that GOUtah! can appropriate alerts out.

    Fiscal conservatives might also question whether the city intends to spend any money on lobbyists or other efforts to actually get State law changed.

    Charles
    GOUtah!
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    First, I'm WAY too smart to run for city council. This council does not represent the general population of Logan. Several are up for re-election this year. Unfortunately, Tami Pyfer is not seeking re-election. She's the only level head on the council and will be sorely missed.

    A quick update on things.

    The 'journalist' at the Herald Journal entirely misrepresented to me and in the article what happened at the meeting. The council DOES realize that they must update their laws and has indicated that they WILL update their laws. Tami Pyfer of the city council has requested a formal correction by the paper because they clearly misrepresented the council's intention. And I have contacted them to say that they owe her one (I didn't ask for my misquote to be corrected).

    Despite the fact that the city WILL repeal their firearms laws (3 council members have personally assured me of this), most of the council members do not like the fact that they have to do so, particularly Laraine Swenson, who proposed drafting the resolution to the state legislature to do away with preemption. The rest of the council, except Tami Pyfer, agreed with putting together a resolution and indicated that they thought that Utah's laws are way too liberal and that they want tighter restrictions in Logan City (there was mention of banning firearms in the hospital and Utah State University).

    Tami Pyfer adamantly opposed the resolution. And the attorney even indicated that it was a futile effort and that WE would likely be upset about. Tami personally called me and expressed that the laws will be updated, but that she does not want to see a resolution go forward. She is a concealed firearms permit holder and even had the guts to tell the rest of the council this. She is VERY supportive of our efforts, but she is alone in this on the council.

    A resolution from the city will NOT get anywhere with the legislature - I think this is very clear considering the history and the current culture. Still, we should do what we can to educate the city about our rights and the existing laws (they have no clue) and convince them to NOT send this resolution to the legislature.

    One council member e-mailed me and basically said that he is TOTALLY for gun rights and what I'm fighting for, so long as all guns are registered and all gun owners receive training and have permits to OWN them. Yeah, this is what we're up against. If you don't agree with these sentiments, contact the city council.

    This will be addressed at the city council meeting on August 4th at 5:30pm @ 255 North Main Street, Logan. The city is in the process of moving to the building directly west of this building, so it could also be there. Let's make a strong showing to verify they fix the laws and that this resolution is stopped.

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    Pyfer said she would prefer local control but given the overriding state law, “I don’t know what we would accomplish at this point,” she said, noting the blow back from gun rights advocates surely in store.
    The highlighted word says it all. The whole issue for them is about control. Not liberty, not justice, not life, not the citizens, it is all about control.




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    rpyne wrote:
    Pyfer said she would prefer local control but given the overriding state law, “I don’t know what we would accomplish at this point,” she said, noting the blow back from gun rights advocates surely in store.
    The highlighted word says it all. The whole issue for them is about control. Not liberty, not justice, not life, not the citizens, it is all about control.
    But please note that Ms. Pyfer DID NOT say this. She is NOT for local control. Others on the council were indicating they wanted local control and she said that she didn't know what a resolution asking for it would accomplish. This is precisely why Ms. Pyfer and myself have requested a correction by the paper. It was apparently this 'journalists' first article for the paper and he screwed it up royally.

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    Go ahead and "shoot yourself in the foot" Logan! What happen to the northern Utah People They must have spent too much time on the east & west coast of this country!

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    I have some time I can take off of work. I'll be there to support our rights. My printer is down right now. So I'd really appreciate if someone could bring some of the OC pamphlets. See you there.

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    apollosmith wrote:
    rpyne wrote:
    Pyfer said she would prefer local control but given the overriding state law, “I don’t know what we would accomplish at this point,” she said, noting the blow back from gun rights advocates surely in store.
    The highlighted word says it all. The whole issue for them is about control. Not liberty, not justice, not life, not the citizens, it is all about control.
    But please note that Ms. Pyfer DID NOT say this. She is NOT for local control. Others on the council were indicating they wanted local control and she said that she didn't know what a resolution asking for it would accomplish. This is precisely why Ms. Pyfer and myself have requested a correction by the paper. It was apparently this 'journalists' first article for the paper and he screwed it up royally.
    lol. I hope they get their crap together and straighten out the confusion. In the mean time, it would be nice to have some justification from the idiots in authority out there in Logan for their ridiculous request for self regulation of firearms in their county. Some dumb asses obviously don't want to get reelected. They must have been sitting around their little lunch table trying to figure out how to retire early with full benefits without looking like quitters.

    Kevin
    If it isn't broke, then don't fix it, or you'll fix it until it's broke.

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    I plan on going down from SLC Utah. I can take six people with me anyone wanting to go represent OCDO please let me know. To support the cause I would ask you have a Openly Carried Weapon. Please let me know if you would like a ride. I am not asking for gas money just your presence. It is a 2 Hour drive down so plan accordingly.

    I will prepare a press release once I get a head count of everyone going.

    August 4th at 5:30pm @ 255 North Main Street, Logan

    Maybe before or after we can plan some events while down their. Eating Movie or anything you choose.

    So lets go down and support our rights. And have a good time.

    Zach
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    I wonder how this is going to turn out

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Same as it always turns out.

    We show up, they take notice, sometimes the news reports on it.

    We go eat food, TJ breaks a door.

    Everyone enjoys themselves.

    A message gets conveyed.

    You know, the basics.


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    It will turn out just fine. Would you like to go with C Dog
    Zach
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    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"

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    I'm in. I think I already said that. Just send me a pm and I'll get you my # so we can plan it.

  18. #18
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    The guys at KVNU's For The People will be having me on again tomorrow (Tuesday) at 5:10pm to discuss this. You can tune in at 610AM in Northern Utah or at http://kvnuforthepeople.com/ Be sure to join their chat room or call in and ask questions or express your opinion.

    I've been having some 'interesting' conversations with some city council members. Just be glad these folks aren't setting gun control policy.

    As of right now, the ordinance issue will be addressed next week and there will be a public comment period. I anticipate that this would be the best time to request or suggest that Logan City officers be given training on firearms laws.

    The resolution to the legislature may or may not be addressed next week. Even if it is addressed, it likely will not be voted on and will not be given public comment time until the next meeting (assuming they want to go forward with it). As such, I think it would be best to express our concern regarding the resolution at the beginning of the meeting during the public comment period. We're limited to 3 minutes.

    One council member has told me that my opinion doesn't matter that much to him and that "gathering the troops" from around the state is mostly fruitless because we're not Logan City residents (apparently working and spending most your money in a city doesn't matter). It's important that we have residents of Logan in attendance, that they are identified as residents, and (preferably) that they do the talking. If you know someone that is willing, please let me know.

    The response to this has been tremendous. I've had quite a few people agree to show up to the meeting, but we need more. Let's fill the place and let them know that their sentiments do not represent the majority of the people they represent.

    Again, it's Tuesday, August 4th at 5:30pm @ 255 North Main Street, Logan (or possibly across the parking lot to the west).

    Oh, and the Herald Journal did print a clarification on Saturday regarding Tami Pyfer's comments.

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    I'm a Logan resident and am planning to come (hope work doesn't interfere!) I'm trying to get another local up too. Because of past community involvement I've presented to Logan and other local city councils on other subjects before but am always up to hearing suggestions from others on a "new" topic. ;-)

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    The radio show went great... I think. Hopefully I didn't ramble on too much. They gave this topic 45 minutes of airtime and we had a great discussion about what Logan has done and is doing, and we talked generally about the right to bear arms. Good stuff.

    Paul Mero of the Southerland Institute addressed this issue in a very good editorial found at http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/n...c=4&id=564 It aired just before I came on the air. It's a MUST READ!

    Laraine Swenson of the council may be trying to pull a fast one on us. She knows that we're organizing to be at the meeting and now she is thinking that she might move this item from the agenda to some other unspecified date. We might not know for sure until the agenda is published, which wasn't until just a couple hours before the last meeting. I'm pushing her for a commitment on the date and will let you know.

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    Here's the Logan City Council url:

    http://www.loganutah.org/City%20Council/index.cfm

    And meeting place and time:

    City Council Meetings
    Every 1st and 3rd Tuesday at 5:30 p.m. in the Council Chambers
    290 North 100 West
    Logan, Ut 84321

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    Laraine Swenson has confirmed that this is not of high priority issue to her. She will likely be moving it to the agenda "sometime in September". I'm dying to know what is so important to the city that they'd extend their infringing of our civil rights and ignoring the Attorney General's instructions. Tami Pyfer is going to work with her to get the ordinance issue on the agenda for next week, but Laraine is the chairperson and makes the decision.

    Regardless, we're still on for next week. Please help us make a strong showing - especially from Logan City residents.

    The council meets at 255 North Main Street, not at 290 North 100 West. These locations are just across the parking lot from each other, but the council will still be meeting in the older building on Main Street.

    Once this is over, we all need to work together to have the legislature change Utah's preemption laws so that all local ordinances are rescinded, not merely made unenforceable. This situation has shown that simply making the laws nullified does little to protect our rights. If the laws remain on the books, LEOs will think they are enforceable and will continue to harass and detain us for lawful carry. And it clearly is not productive to do this city by city. The AGs office I'm sure would be on board - they are sick of the complaints. We need to have these laws removed from the books throughout the state.

  23. #23
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    I plan on being their please keep us informed so I can plan accordingly.
    Zach
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    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"

  24. #24
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    apollosmith wrote:
    If the laws remain on the books, LEOs will think they are enforceable and will continue to harass and detain us for lawful carry.
    Maybe I am missing something, but has there been a documented instance of harassment in Logan due to this law?
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    I think it should be pointed out that if officers take an oath to uphold the Constitution and the law, and the two are in conflict, then there's a real conundrum on how they are to do their job.

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