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Logan City request self-rule on guns

apollosmith

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Laraine Swenson has confirmed that this is not of high priority issue to her. She will likely be moving it to the agenda "sometime in September". I'm dying to know what is so important to the city that they'd extend their infringing of our civil rights and ignoring the Attorney General's instructions. Tami Pyfer is going to work with her to get the ordinance issue on the agenda for next week, but Laraine is the chairperson and makes the decision.

Regardless, we're still on for next week. Please help us make a strong showing - especially from Logan City residents.

The council meets at 255 North Main Street, not at 290 North 100 West. These locations are just across the parking lot from each other, but the council will still be meeting in the older building on Main Street.

Once this is over, we all need to work together to have the legislature change Utah's preemption laws so that all local ordinances are rescinded, not merely made unenforceable. This situation has shown that simply making the laws nullified does little to protect our rights. If the laws remain on the books, LEOs will think they are enforceable and will continue to harass and detain us for lawful carry. And it clearly is not productive to do this city by city. The AGs office I'm sure would be on board - they are sick of the complaints. We need to have these laws removed from the books throughout the state.
 

Kevin Jensen

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apollosmith wrote:
If the laws remain on the books, LEOs will think they are enforceable and will continue to harass and detain us for lawful carry.
Maybe I am missing something, but has there been a documented instance of harassment in Logan due to this law?
 

Ebeye

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I think it should be pointed out that if officers take an oath to uphold the Constitution and the law, and the two are in conflict, then there's a real conundrum on how they are to do their job.
 

Ebeye

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I just sent this email to Councilwoman Swenson with a cc to the Chief of Police:

Councilwoman Swenson,

I've been following the recent hoo-haw regarding the municipal vs state laws regarding the open carrying of firearms in both the local media and on the opencarry.org discussion site. If I'm not mistaken, it appears that you might be moving that issue further back in time. I'd like to suggest that to the police officers of this city, it'd be better moved forward as it puts them into a very real conundrum on how, or whether, to enforce conflicting laws. To which have they sworn the greater oath? The national and state regulations are at odds with the city, which is the entity that proffers their paychecks. In this very fundamental and strongly viewed subject, "officer discretion" perhaps becomes based only on the personal view or whim of each officer. And if the citizens can't count on consistent application of a law then, well, you get the drift.

Whether of not people "like" an act is beside the point of whether it is an act which is fundamental to the rights of mankind; the right to own and carry that which defends and protects oneself and others from ne'er-do-well's.

Oh, and some argue that a man peacefully carrying a firearm becomes a target. If so, then every police officer is such. But I've yet to meet a lawbreaker who'll begin a bad act when there's an officer within sight. It'd have to be ditto for any citizen with means in clear view also. Seems to me that more open carriers would abut and augment an already generally peaceful community, not the reverse.

Please do not put off resolution of the contradiction. Citizens and officers all need full clarity as soon as possible.

Sincerely,

Walt Appel
 

apollosmith

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Excellent letter Ebeye!

Tami Pyfer called in some political favors and got the ordinance item put back on the agenda. She has been VERY supportive of what we're doing and really went out of her way and did A LOT of convincing to get Laraine to do this for us. But in doing so, there were some concessions that I'm OK with, if you are too.

- The ordinance issue will not be a public discussion item because it will be a simple vote to repeal all of the firearms ordinances. I'm cool with this because it gives them little chance to screw things up. They just vote and the laws go away (like they should have months ago).

- We have to be on our best behavior. As if we'd be anything other! There was some concern about this being a demonstration and not a showing of public support.

- Any comment must be brief and relevant to the topic. Only one resident will speak on this topic. hartazo has agreed to make the public comment at the beginning of the meeting and I assured her that our intentions are to briefly 1) Thank the council for (presumably) removing the laws, 2) Request or suggest that officer training on firearms laws would be a good idea, and 3) indicate that we are concerned about and oppose any future resolution to the legislature requesting local control of firearms laws.

The resolution item may or may not come up at a future meeting (no sooner than September). We'll keep an eye out for it, but I get the impression that it will probably just go away. Even if it comes back up, it would not be a public discussion item.

Again, Tuesday, August 4th at 5:30. Dinner afterward.
 

utbagpiper

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apollosmith wrote:
- The ordinance issue will not be a public discussion item because it will be a simple vote to repeal all of the firearms ordinances. I'm cool with this because it gives them little chance to screw things up. They just vote and the laws go away (like they should have months ago).

-
Great work guys. Thank you.

Charles
 

Utah_Patriot

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Just got this Email back glad she had a change of heart.

Hi Zachary,

I'm sorry that you have been given misinformation. Is it and has been our intention to repeal the ordinance on our books and to comply with state law.

Laraine


Laraine Swenson,





I can?t help but take notice of your attitude on firearms and why you choose to disobey the AG?s Office. What is it that makes you want to take another person?s rights away unjustly by keeping laws on your book.



I can see that you are against firearms and wish they would go away. My rights as a citizen in your city are being infringed upon. I was taught to stand up for what I believe. I fought for this country and am a productive member of society I would hope that you would fight for my rights in Logan.



I plan on being in attendance at your council meeting. I would hope that your choice to follow the AG?s instruction will be followed. I am thankful for your service to this great city of Logan. And hope to meet and greet each council member for changing Logan?s unfair laws on the book.



Thanks

Zachary S Wellman
 

whiptrackercracker

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I would not say anything as solid as documented. I have had personal experience with several officers, including the local CCW instructor, who believe that OC is illegal within Logan. They have taken some adjustments and education til they realized the truth. I've also been told story upon story of problems from friends and others on this issue. I personally don't have documented validity on this issue, but I've heard stories for a while now, and have personal first hand accounts. It is enough just to send out a reminder for good practice. To their defense, they can't know every law, and having contradictory laws on the books doesn't help.

I'll be there for sure!



SGT Jensen wrote:
apollosmith wrote:
If the laws remain on the books, LEOs will think they are enforceable and will continue to harass and detain us for lawful carry.
Maybe I am missing something, but has there been a documented instance of harassment in Logan due to this law?
 

whiptrackercracker

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Lol, I tend to hang out over at UCC. I CC more than OC, just due to the fact that 90 percent of my time is on campus or somewhere else that is OC intolerant or challenging. But, I'm still here.
 

thx997303

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I haven't even seen you posting over there.

Maybe that's my fault, but I was wondering the other day what you were up to.

Well, either way, glad to hear from ya.
 

whiptrackercracker

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I'm fairly silent anywhere. I only step out once in a while...:)...especially when its my town.

thx997303 wrote:
I haven't even seen you posting over there.

Maybe that's my fault, but I was wondering the other day what you were up to.

Well, either way, glad to hear from ya.
 

Utah_Patriot

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BTW What caused lorraine Swenson to have a change of heart. She is now in favor of following the AG's Direction.

She also stated she is not going for re election and she won't comment about gun rights in Logan.

Must had a little opposition from the group.

I plan on attending the Meeting OC'ing of course.

I will not be taking passengers but taking advantage of my Motorcycle to save gas. I plan on OC'ing all the Way up.

Anyone want to ride up with me on their M/C

Thanks

Zachary
 

JoeSparky

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gunsfreak4791 wrote:
BTW What caused lorraine Swenson to have a change of heart. She is now in favor of following the AG's Direction.

She also stated she is not going for re election and she won't comment about gun rights in Logan.

Must had a little opposition from the group.

I plan on attending the Meeting OC'ing of course.

I will not be taking passengers but taking advantage of my Motorcycle to save gas. I plan on OC'ing all the Way up.

Anyone want to ride up with me on their M/C

Thanks

Zachary
I would love to do this but....

I work EVERY Tuesday night... so I will have to rely on others to attend for me and support Firearm Owner's rights!
 

Bushidonate

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I have some bad news my friends. Last week I caught some kind of nasty virus. And being as stubborn as I am, I waited til Friday to go into the Doc's office. It is the sickest i have been in 7 years. It was tearing my body apart, I had a temp of 103.2! I have gotten that under control, I am on the mend but it has moved into my lungs as bronchitis. Being this sick, I do not think it will be wise for me to go to the meeting. Both for my health and the other attendees. I will still be there in spirit. Sorry I really would like to be there, but cannot.
 

apollosmith

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Just a reminder about the city council meeting tomorrow (Tuesday) at 5:30pm at 255 North Main Street in Logan. The ordinance item *IS* on the agenda and will be addressed shortly after 6pm, but we will be making our public statement right at the beginning of the meeting. Hope to see you there. If there's interested, we'll be doing dinner or something after the meeting.
 

utbagpiper

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This story may be periphially related to the issue of RKBA in Logan.

I'm told the current chief of police in Logan--who is resigning as per the story below--has been instructing his officers to stop, detain, and harass anyone seen OCing in Logan. Good riddance.

Charles

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=7409688

Logan police chief stepping down after 3 years August 4th, 2009 @ 10:57am LOGAN, Utah (AP) -- Logan's police chief is stepping down from the position after three years.
Russ Roper made the announcement Monday, saying a small group of people at the department had lost respect for him after he made unpopular decisions at the beginning of his appointment.
Roper said in a statement that he's grateful for the opportunity to have served Logan and the police department for more than 21 years.
Logan Mayor Randy Watts says Roper was losing the support of some of the officers in the 63-person department. But Watts said he didn't want to discuss specific disagreements between the department and Roper.
Watts says he'll hold a nationwide search for the next police chief.
 
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