ixtow
Founder's Club Member
imported post
longwatch wrote:
longwatch wrote:
Oh, do explain this one to me...
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Distasteful open carry
- Thread starter crisisweasel
- Start date
longwatch
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
imported post
My impression of you is that you feel that few gun owners including those on this forum meet your standards, that they are not as hardcore as you when it comes to RKBA. That you are better than they are.
My impression of you is that you feel that few gun owners including those on this forum meet your standards, that they are not as hardcore as you when it comes to RKBA. That you are better than they are.
ixtow
Founder's Club Member
imported post
longwatch wrote:
But how that matter became the topic if this particular discussion is quite ironic, since it's about those who would exclude me.
longwatch wrote:
I suppose you can have the view if you like, and it may be, in part, accurate.
But how that matter became the topic if this particular discussion is quite ironic, since it's about those who would exclude me.
longwatch
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
imported post
So far all I've seen is you excluding yourself, why would they specifically exclude you?
So far all I've seen is you excluding yourself, why would they specifically exclude you?
ixtow
Founder's Club Member
imported post
longwatch wrote:
How dare I...
So, since I'm considered 'distasteful,' I'll just stay at home like the elitists tell me to. I'm a dirty bastard who isn't wanted... Blah blah blah. I see no reason to go out of my way to spend time in the presence of people who think I have no right to live.
longwatch wrote:
The unspoken rules of what 'tasteful' open carry is... It's that attitude that lead to Open Carry being taboo in the first place. I saw the flack that KP took for carrying an AR pistol, so that makes it pretty clear that 'my kind' isn't welcome; because I'd pack the PLR-16.
How dare I...
So, since I'm considered 'distasteful,' I'll just stay at home like the elitists tell me to. I'm a dirty bastard who isn't wanted... Blah blah blah. I see no reason to go out of my way to spend time in the presence of people who think I have no right to live.
longwatch
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
imported post
I hate this saying, because people use it when they want you to compromise your beliefs, "don't let perfect become the enemy of the good". I am not going to ask you to do that but to consider the following. By excluding yourself, your position is not presented to those you disagree with. Meaning they won't change because they don't see you, haven't heard your point of view and validation for your actions. Yes we are talking about your right to carry, but they don't approve of it. I think it's a good idea to try to pull those people whose position is closest to yours into alignment with you, so engage them. You might be surprised to learn that they would wish to do as you do but have a reason not to, like they feel it's to soon or they have a desensitization goal and are in the baby steps mode. Maybe they just need to see someone do it first. I do think it's counter productive to paint your closest allies as elitists particularly if they are a majority, you may find yourself ignored out of hand in the future.
I hate this saying, because people use it when they want you to compromise your beliefs, "don't let perfect become the enemy of the good". I am not going to ask you to do that but to consider the following. By excluding yourself, your position is not presented to those you disagree with. Meaning they won't change because they don't see you, haven't heard your point of view and validation for your actions. Yes we are talking about your right to carry, but they don't approve of it. I think it's a good idea to try to pull those people whose position is closest to yours into alignment with you, so engage them. You might be surprised to learn that they would wish to do as you do but have a reason not to, like they feel it's to soon or they have a desensitization goal and are in the baby steps mode. Maybe they just need to see someone do it first. I do think it's counter productive to paint your closest allies as elitists particularly if they are a majority, you may find yourself ignored out of hand in the future.
ixtow
Founder's Club Member
imported post
I got something like that in a fortune cookie.
He who waits to do good only until he can do a large amount of it, shall do no good at all.
You've made a bit of a straw man.
I am not excluding myself; I have been explicitly told that 'my kind' is unwelcome because my interests/preferences are not 'tasteful' in the minds of those who want to exclude me.
It is just an articulate way to insult and shun someone for daring to do/be something that the elites don't approve of.
Tyranny with manners is something I'd rather shoot at or spit on, than sponsor. If it isn't open to all legal carry, then it really isn't much of an opportunity for anyone but those creating the restrictions.
My PLR isn't welcome, neither am I.
It really isn't a debate, and trying to twist the argument into self-exclusion, like some liberal news reporter, is not becoming. Maybe it' just a mater of perspective... But the FACT that some ambiguous "that kind of gun is ugly and scary and thusly, not in good taste....." has not been made by me. I'm simply observing it and respecting those who disrespect me; much like not patronizing a business with anti-gun policies.
KP chose to forgo his AR pistol recently. I don't feel like compromising amongst those who called themselves uncompromising.... Then requested a compromise just to eliminate the 'unclean.'
Blah blah blah, it's not a new argument, and I've already arrived at the logical conclusion.
Why should I push myself on those who don't want me around? I'll go my way, you go yours.
I got something like that in a fortune cookie.
He who waits to do good only until he can do a large amount of it, shall do no good at all.
You've made a bit of a straw man.
I am not excluding myself; I have been explicitly told that 'my kind' is unwelcome because my interests/preferences are not 'tasteful' in the minds of those who want to exclude me.
It is just an articulate way to insult and shun someone for daring to do/be something that the elites don't approve of.
Tyranny with manners is something I'd rather shoot at or spit on, than sponsor. If it isn't open to all legal carry, then it really isn't much of an opportunity for anyone but those creating the restrictions.
My PLR isn't welcome, neither am I.
It really isn't a debate, and trying to twist the argument into self-exclusion, like some liberal news reporter, is not becoming. Maybe it' just a mater of perspective... But the FACT that some ambiguous "that kind of gun is ugly and scary and thusly, not in good taste....." has not been made by me. I'm simply observing it and respecting those who disrespect me; much like not patronizing a business with anti-gun policies.
KP chose to forgo his AR pistol recently. I don't feel like compromising amongst those who called themselves uncompromising.... Then requested a compromise just to eliminate the 'unclean.'
Blah blah blah, it's not a new argument, and I've already arrived at the logical conclusion.
Why should I push myself on those who don't want me around? I'll go my way, you go yours.
SlackwareRobert
Regular Member
imported post
I don't know. But he needs a better carry holster / sling setup.
All the hardware on one side makes it bad for fast deployment.
They are interfering with each other. Spread out the hardware,
left side, right side, across the back. And still have ankles and
center chest if needed.
Most important, I didn't see enough reloads.:uhoh:
I don't know. But he needs a better carry holster / sling setup.
All the hardware on one side makes it bad for fast deployment.
They are interfering with each other. Spread out the hardware,
left side, right side, across the back. And still have ankles and
center chest if needed.
Most important, I didn't see enough reloads.:uhoh:
Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
imported post
Get REAL! Do you guys carry for self defense or just to show off? Shorts 'n sneakers while festooned w/black op's hardwareliterally scream'Gun Nut Goofball'. "Look at me... look whatI got... Ain't I cool?" No, your not cool... ya look like idiots. These OC 'dinners' are supposed to project an 'image'... Mall Ninja is NOT the image desired. Most all of us have other serious hardware... Bring pictures if you must. Don't clank around with it unless the Zombies really are comin'. Show a little maturity... you're supposed to be adults.
Get REAL! Do you guys carry for self defense or just to show off? Shorts 'n sneakers while festooned w/black op's hardwareliterally scream'Gun Nut Goofball'. "Look at me... look whatI got... Ain't I cool?" No, your not cool... ya look like idiots. These OC 'dinners' are supposed to project an 'image'... Mall Ninja is NOT the image desired. Most all of us have other serious hardware... Bring pictures if you must. Don't clank around with it unless the Zombies really are comin'. Show a little maturity... you're supposed to be adults.
Crossfire Jedi
Regular Member
imported post
Wow, what a good debate. I admit after reading all the posts I am tossed. I agree with Sonora that we are trying to project a specific image. At the same time I understand where ixtow is coming from as well. A gun is a gun, one might be bigger..but who cares in the end if it's legal to OC, then why not do what you want to do. I have never been a fan of grandstanding, but the anti-gun people out there may see even me with a handgun as grandstanding.
I say bring what you want and wear what you want if it's legal, why not. If someone came in with five guns strapped to them to a diner, had a meal, didn't cause a scene and left..I wonder if that would have a larger impact to those that either don't understand or are anti-gun? Is this practical for self defense...not really, but when you are at an outing with others, are you not there for more than displaying your rights, are you not there to show others that there really is nothing to be afraid of and that it's legal to do so?
Good discussion.
Wow, what a good debate. I admit after reading all the posts I am tossed. I agree with Sonora that we are trying to project a specific image. At the same time I understand where ixtow is coming from as well. A gun is a gun, one might be bigger..but who cares in the end if it's legal to OC, then why not do what you want to do. I have never been a fan of grandstanding, but the anti-gun people out there may see even me with a handgun as grandstanding.
I say bring what you want and wear what you want if it's legal, why not. If someone came in with five guns strapped to them to a diner, had a meal, didn't cause a scene and left..I wonder if that would have a larger impact to those that either don't understand or are anti-gun? Is this practical for self defense...not really, but when you are at an outing with others, are you not there for more than displaying your rights, are you not there to show others that there really is nothing to be afraid of and that it's legal to do so?
Good discussion.
ixtow
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Sonora Rebel wrote:
If a single word you speak were accurate; I'd come anyway. Your argument is just as inane and baseless as those who say open carrying in any form is 'trying to look cool.'
You're just moving the line slightly and taking the same anti stance.
It is quite 'real,' sir. Adults..? Calling someone a Mall Ninja because they dare to carry a weapon you frown on. Telling me I'm unwelcome for being 'too much' of a gun owner? Zombies??? You're being sarcastic and immature, yet dare invoke the suggestion that I become an adult by emulating you?
Are those boots tasty?
Sonora Rebel wrote:
Not the guy would have expected to hear this drivel from, but what the hey...
If a single word you speak were accurate; I'd come anyway. Your argument is just as inane and baseless as those who say open carrying in any form is 'trying to look cool.'
You're just moving the line slightly and taking the same anti stance.
It is quite 'real,' sir. Adults..? Calling someone a Mall Ninja because they dare to carry a weapon you frown on. Telling me I'm unwelcome for being 'too much' of a gun owner? Zombies??? You're being sarcastic and immature, yet dare invoke the suggestion that I become an adult by emulating you?
Are those boots tasty?
ixtow
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Crossfire Jedi wrote:
But if some guy strapped with an AR or AK pistol, or a PLR-16, well, you can't possible NOT notice that. And, he's not blowing up the place. As Sonora so eloquently admonished, a Gun Nut I will be labeled. But it will lie even more opposed to the notion as I DON'T go about shooting people for no reason.
Have so-called 'assault weapons' not been endlessly portrayed as evil? OC the same? So I might choose to kill two birds with one stone. Why so much hate for the idea of spreading truth on two subjects at once, instead of just one?
Crossfire Jedi wrote:
I think I've made this point before... Wearing an 'acceptable' gun, that a lot of people don't even notice, makes what kind of image? It doesn't make people think if they don't even notice it.
But if some guy strapped with an AR or AK pistol, or a PLR-16, well, you can't possible NOT notice that. And, he's not blowing up the place. As Sonora so eloquently admonished, a Gun Nut I will be labeled. But it will lie even more opposed to the notion as I DON'T go about shooting people for no reason.
Have so-called 'assault weapons' not been endlessly portrayed as evil? OC the same? So I might choose to kill two birds with one stone. Why so much hate for the idea of spreading truth on two subjects at once, instead of just one?
Crossfire Jedi
Regular Member
imported post
No hate here, I understand where you are coming from. I personally would not do it, but I would not have a problem sitting next to someone that did. I don't want to speak for my buddy Sonora, but the prior posts were sorta vague and maybe that is why he responded the way he did. I think the more detail you put into the conversation the better I understood what you were trying to convey.
No hate here, I understand where you are coming from. I personally would not do it, but I would not have a problem sitting next to someone that did. I don't want to speak for my buddy Sonora, but the prior posts were sorta vague and maybe that is why he responded the way he did. I think the more detail you put into the conversation the better I understood what you were trying to convey.
Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
imported post
Y'know... havin' been loaded out full battle rattlein 782 gear while humpin' an M60 with a pair of 150 rd belts for real in the national interest... I see all this other crapasgrandstandin' wanna-be's. WTF's the purpose? 'Cause you 'can'? You're in Florida... you can't OC anyway. You're not goin' to war. The recruiting office would love to have you... Go Army 11-B 'n they'll give you all sorts of neat toys to carry around. They'lll send you to far off distant lands where you will meet strange, exotic people... and kill them.
Of course... if you prefer prancin' around at the local Mickey D's geared up with everything in the Brigade Quartermaster 'n Cheaper than Dirt catalogs...
Y'know... havin' been loaded out full battle rattlein 782 gear while humpin' an M60 with a pair of 150 rd belts for real in the national interest... I see all this other crapasgrandstandin' wanna-be's. WTF's the purpose? 'Cause you 'can'? You're in Florida... you can't OC anyway. You're not goin' to war. The recruiting office would love to have you... Go Army 11-B 'n they'll give you all sorts of neat toys to carry around. They'lll send you to far off distant lands where you will meet strange, exotic people... and kill them.
Of course... if you prefer prancin' around at the local Mickey D's geared up with everything in the Brigade Quartermaster 'n Cheaper than Dirt catalogs...
ixtow
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Sonora Rebel wrote:
Where's that Straw Man image when you need it?
You're being sarcastic, while flaunting your service as some kind of justification for telling me I haven't got the same rights that you do. Are you one of the 'only ones?'
I'm not intending to bring an M60; I couldn't afford one. Nor any form of automatic weapon at all. But my Saiga does handle the same round. No belts, etc... You, sir, are the one who should 'get real.' There is simply no way to make the comparisons you just did, while maintaining a straight face. It is hilariously incongruent and irrational. You might as well write for the NY Times...
God willing, I've got less than a month before leaving this crap State. Like it or not, I'll be an Arizonan too. And I'll carry whatever I am legally able.
If I wanted to stoop to your level, I could ask why you feel like literally dressing up like a cowboy and parading about with your 'hog' hanging out.... But that would be stupid and immature.
Sonora Rebel wrote:
You've ignored the actual topic in favor of ranting about something unrelated and devisive...
Where's that Straw Man image when you need it?
You're being sarcastic, while flaunting your service as some kind of justification for telling me I haven't got the same rights that you do. Are you one of the 'only ones?'
I'm not intending to bring an M60; I couldn't afford one. Nor any form of automatic weapon at all. But my Saiga does handle the same round. No belts, etc... You, sir, are the one who should 'get real.' There is simply no way to make the comparisons you just did, while maintaining a straight face. It is hilariously incongruent and irrational. You might as well write for the NY Times...
God willing, I've got less than a month before leaving this crap State. Like it or not, I'll be an Arizonan too. And I'll carry whatever I am legally able.
If I wanted to stoop to your level, I could ask why you feel like literally dressing up like a cowboy and parading about with your 'hog' hanging out.... But that would be stupid and immature.
Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
imported post
Dude....I s'pose you could go heeled any way you want'a... but you'll serve no good purpose appearing as a 'Rambo' gun nut. When and if you get here... OC will be a novelty. Don't overdo it 'n make the rest of us look bad. As for me...I carry for sellf defense... PERIOD. Not to show off or scare people. I've been carryin'guns longer than you've been on the planet... so don't 'tell me' anything.
There's a whole bunch'a folks into the 'Old West' here 'n about... 'n it's called period re-enacting. Somethin' you have scant idea of, nor exposure to. It's a cultural thing. It's also kind of a hobby among like minded folks who get together from all over'n do that in Tombstone several times a year. It's not cheap. If ya don't do it right... you'll hear about it as well. It goes along with knowin' the history of the area. But... it's not that far off from whatI normally wear 'cause this is still the same desert it's always been and I 'live' in the desert.
Try not to bring Florida with you... It don't fit here.
Dude....I s'pose you could go heeled any way you want'a... but you'll serve no good purpose appearing as a 'Rambo' gun nut. When and if you get here... OC will be a novelty. Don't overdo it 'n make the rest of us look bad. As for me...I carry for sellf defense... PERIOD. Not to show off or scare people. I've been carryin'guns longer than you've been on the planet... so don't 'tell me' anything.
There's a whole bunch'a folks into the 'Old West' here 'n about... 'n it's called period re-enacting. Somethin' you have scant idea of, nor exposure to. It's a cultural thing. It's also kind of a hobby among like minded folks who get together from all over'n do that in Tombstone several times a year. It's not cheap. If ya don't do it right... you'll hear about it as well. It goes along with knowin' the history of the area. But... it's not that far off from whatI normally wear 'cause this is still the same desert it's always been and I 'live' in the desert.
Try not to bring Florida with you... It don't fit here.
Crossfire Jedi
Regular Member
imported post
Sonora - I don't understand bud. We are pro gun here in Arizona, not pro gun if. You said "not to show off or scare people", but if we were so worried about scarring people,wewouldn't carry anything would we? You know how I feel about grandstanding/showing off, but this feels different to me in comparisonto someone that has an empty holster walking around.
Sonora - I don't understand bud. We are pro gun here in Arizona, not pro gun if. You said "not to show off or scare people", but if we were so worried about scarring people,wewouldn't carry anything would we? You know how I feel about grandstanding/showing off, but this feels different to me in comparisonto someone that has an empty holster walking around.
Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
imported post
Walkin' around with a AKor some other 'thing' might be legal... but it scares people. It serves no practical purpose. It's like wearin' a tin-foil hat. It's not about making statements... Nobody gives a crap about statements.We have the right to bear arms here, always have. There's no contest... there's nothing to 'prove'. These noobs bring all this 'wired' baggage with 'em... and it's unnecessary.
All they have to do is stop 'n just LOOK around 'em... look at the terrain. Know where thehell you are and it's history. Adapt to it and adopt it. 'Got enuff problems with the Kommiefornians 'n all their goofy baggage as it is. Damn it's hot today... 110 out here. Yeah... go schleppin' around with all that junk in this heat 'n they'll wise up soon enough.
Walkin' around with a AKor some other 'thing' might be legal... but it scares people. It serves no practical purpose. It's like wearin' a tin-foil hat. It's not about making statements... Nobody gives a crap about statements.We have the right to bear arms here, always have. There's no contest... there's nothing to 'prove'. These noobs bring all this 'wired' baggage with 'em... and it's unnecessary.
All they have to do is stop 'n just LOOK around 'em... look at the terrain. Know where thehell you are and it's history. Adapt to it and adopt it. 'Got enuff problems with the Kommiefornians 'n all their goofy baggage as it is. Damn it's hot today... 110 out here. Yeah... go schleppin' around with all that junk in this heat 'n they'll wise up soon enough.
ixtow
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Sonora Rebel wrote:
So far, your responses have been nothing but inflammatory 'only one' straw-man arguments.
I probably won't 'schlep' my PLR-16 around all the time. It's big, heavy, and clumsy, etc. but having lived in a commie state for my entire life, I need a release! And It's not a crime to be a citizen instead of a subject in your great state of Arizona.
But, it is a .223. The sissy of rifle rounds... I really wouldn't consider it for much more than a pistol anyway. I can't see the practicality of my Saiga .308 slung over my shoulder. But for someone who has been a prisoner for his entire life, it all has appeal.
I'd like to enjoy being a human to the maximum that I can.
Point, laugh, insult, whatever man. I quickly stopped CCing anything but my P-32. I'm sure the novelty will wear off just the same.
Sonora Rebel wrote:
Any guns scares the right kind of idiot. Being Black scares other kinds of idiots. a BLACK GUN will likely make me the most hated person alive. Send out the lynch mob, whatever.
So far, your responses have been nothing but inflammatory 'only one' straw-man arguments.
I probably won't 'schlep' my PLR-16 around all the time. It's big, heavy, and clumsy, etc. but having lived in a commie state for my entire life, I need a release! And It's not a crime to be a citizen instead of a subject in your great state of Arizona.
But, it is a .223. The sissy of rifle rounds... I really wouldn't consider it for much more than a pistol anyway. I can't see the practicality of my Saiga .308 slung over my shoulder. But for someone who has been a prisoner for his entire life, it all has appeal.
I'd like to enjoy being a human to the maximum that I can.
Point, laugh, insult, whatever man. I quickly stopped CCing anything but my P-32. I'm sure the novelty will wear off just the same.
Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
imported post
ixtow wrote:
I put those things in the same catagory as a Tec-9 'n Uzi semi-auto's.But it'sa 5.56 for krissakes... Where are those rounds gonna go if you miss? Where are they gonna go at the expected self defense engagement ranges of 6-15'? Through whatever you're shootin' at? Then what? Use of deadly force ain't playtime.
Ican put my boots in the oven but that won't make 'em biscuits.
ixtow wrote:
I put those things in the same catagory as a Tec-9 'n Uzi semi-auto's.But it'sa 5.56 for krissakes... Where are those rounds gonna go if you miss? Where are they gonna go at the expected self defense engagement ranges of 6-15'? Through whatever you're shootin' at? Then what? Use of deadly force ain't playtime.
Ican put my boots in the oven but that won't make 'em biscuits.