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Thread: So tell me about Washington?

  1. #1
    inNV
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    Hello everyone,

    A recent unexpected turn of events has me considering moving to the Seattle area. I was wondering what the laws were. I know they allow open carry, and CCW, but what are the laws like? Do signs on businesses have any validity? How about carrying in restaraunts that serve alcohol, or bars in general? Any info would be appreciated.

    Thanks

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    inNV wrote:
    Hello everyone,

    A recent unexpected turn of events has me considering moving to the Seattle area. I was wondering what the laws were. I know they allow open carry, and CCW, but what are the laws like? Do signs on businesses have any validity? How about carrying in restaraunts that serve alcohol, or bars in general? Any info would be appreciated.

    Thanks
    Bars are off-limits (any area that the liquor control board designates as over-21 only).

    Liquor stores are OK for carry.

    There is strong state preemption preventing Seattle from passing restrictive laws. OC is OK most anywhere except courthouses, secure areas of jails, etc. I suggest you look up the list of prohibited places.

    Signs have no validity, although any business can ask you to leave and trespass you if you refuse.

    Seattle has a lot of very liberal people, and as such you might encounter some angry people while OCing, but all in all WA is quite gun-friendly.

    Also, if you don't have a CPL, don't carry a loaded pistol in a vehicle. Loaded long guns are also illegal to carry in vehicles, regardless of CPL status.

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    Carry in establishments that serve alcohol is restricted in areas only where minors are not permitted. So, if a resturant sells alcohol you may carry in the resturant area. You may not carry in the lounge, if it is restricted against minors.

    A bar being restricted to minors is a no carry zone.

    As far as I know, there is no statue covering "no guns" signagein private businesses. If a business has a no guns policy they may ask you to leave, or be tresspassed.

    Many municipalities try to enforce no gun zones, but are in reality preempted by state statute.

    Others may chime in to clarify or correct my statements.

  4. #4
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Washington Law regarding gun carry is pretty simple.

    Can't carry where alcohol is served AND those under 21 are prohibited. Simple, if you can take a kid with you you can carry.

    Carrying a loaded gun in a vehicle requires a CPL. Otherwise it has to be unloaded and cased. With CPL "cocked and locked" is OK.

    No can carry in Court or any part of courthouse that "supports" the court. Common areas and entries outside the security check points. Same for Jails.

    No carry in airports inside Security Area. Generally, any area that is open to the public when they don't have to pass through the screening point is good. (guarantee that OC will get attention from airport police though).

    Washington State has a "preemption law" that states the regulation of firearms is reserved to the state. Cities and Counties can not pass laws regulating firearms that are more restrictive than State Law. If you are legal under State Law you are legal EVERWHERE in the State.

    Federal Regulations still are in effect. No Post Office, Federal Office Building, Federal Courthouse, or any other Federal Building carry. Illegal under Federal Law.



    The above is somewhat of a summary. There is a great pamphlet that you can download, read, and print available on this forum (see sticky's).


    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  5. #5
    inNV
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    Dr. Fresh wrote:
    inNV wrote:
    Hello everyone,

    A recent unexpected turn of events has me considering moving to the Seattle area. I was wondering what the laws were. I know they allow open carry, and CCW, but what are the laws like? Do signs on businesses have any validity? How about carrying in restaraunts that serve alcohol, or bars in general? Any info would be appreciated.

    Thanks

    Also, if you don't have a CPL, don't carry a loaded pistol in a vehicle. Loaded long guns are also illegal to carry in vehicles, regardless of CPL status.
    Thanks for the reples.

    Forgive me, but what is a CPL? Is that what you call your concealed weapons permits? Also, if you are allowed to open carry..why couldn't you open carry loaded in your car?

  6. #6
    inNV
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    Sounds almost like Nevada with the exemption that you can carry into a bar, and drink (in NV)..and you can carry loaded or unloaded in a car regardless of having a permit or not. You can even conceal the weapon in a car without a permit.

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    Is carry okay on the ferries?

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    inNV wrote:
    Thanks for the reples.

    Forgive me, but what is a CPL? Is that what you call your concealed weapons permits? Also, if you are allowed to open carry..why couldn't you open carry loaded in your car?
    CPL = Concealed Pistol License

    A CPL is required for you to carry a loaded pistol in your car. Just a stupid part of the law.

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    Ferries are fine.


    The car thing is a hunting law that for some reason affects people who aren' hunting.

    Basically, according to law, carrying any loaded gun in your car is illegal. The CPL provides an exception to that law, for pistols only.

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    Dr. Fresh wrote:
    Ferries are fine.


    The car thing is a hunting law that for some reason affects people who aren' hunting.

    Basically, according to law, carrying any loaded gun in your car is illegal. The CPL provides an exception to that law, for pistols only.
    Okay, next time I am out there I am going to carry. I did not have a pistol case for TSA transport that would fit in my baggage last time. Now I do :-)

    Just got to make sure I do not accidentally get on the one to B.C. That might turn out badly.

  11. #11
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    First off welcome to Washington
    Second, please read the thread: Washington OC FAQ's It will answer alot of questions.

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    Bear in mind the ferries are considered a Vehicle, and therefore you must either unload, or have a CPL, to carry on them.

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    Phssthpok wrote:
    Bear in mind the ferries are considered a Vehicle, and therefore you must either unload, or have a CPL, to carry on them.
    No, the ferries are part of the highway. They are not a vehicle under state law. How many times do we have to go over this? Jeeze.

    Loaded carry on a ferry with no CPL is lawful. It is only unlawful if you are in a vehicle that is on the ferry.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    hahaha. ...and what if the monorail had a wet bar aboard?

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    NavyLT wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    Phssthpok wrote:
    Bear in mind the ferries are considered a Vehicle, and therefore you must either unload, or have a CPL, to carry on them.
    No, the ferries are part of the highway. They are not a vehicle under state law. How many times do we have to go over this? Jeeze.

    Loaded carry on a ferry with no CPL is lawful. It is only unlawful if you are in a vehicle that is on the ferry.
    What about the monorail! :-) Now, if the monorail was being transported by ferry.....

    BTW Joeroket, did you check out the monorail discussion? There is a section in 9A that states that for the purposes of offenses under 9A or any general statute that "vehicle" means "motor vehicle" as described in motor vehicle statutes.... very interesting.
    I did read that thread. It is very interesting. I think you are spot on with the monorail not being a vehicle either.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Monorail? kind of like an elevator going sideways. Just a device for transporting people from point a to point b.

    But wait there's more. That is what a vehicle does. Would that mean an elevator is a vehicle?

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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    Monorail? kind of like an elevator going sideways. Just a device for transporting people from point a to point b.

    But wait there's more. That is what a vehicle does. Would that mean an elevator is a vehicle?
    Not by definition in the RCW's.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  18. #18
    inNV
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    I noticed and read the Washington carry pamphlet on this board, it was great. some questions though..

    It is legal to carry concealed with proper permits on a college or university campus? How about open?

    And what about "castle doctrines"? What is the law in shooting someone in your home who doesn't belong there?

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    inNV wrote:
    I noticed and read the Washington carry pamphlet on this board, it was great. some questions though..

    It is legal to carry concealed with proper permits on a college or university campus? How about open?

    And what about "castle doctrines"? What is the law in shooting someone in your home who doesn't belong there?
    There is no duty to retreat, and while there is no castle law, the end result is about the same. I'd suggest reading up on it though.

    As for college campuses, it's legal, but against almost all policies, and will get you removed (or expelled if you're a student).

  20. #20
    inNV
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    Dr. Fresh wrote:
    inNV wrote:
    I noticed and read the Washington carry pamphlet on this board, it was great. some questions though..

    It is legal to carry concealed with proper permits on a college or university campus? How about open?

    And what about "castle doctrines"? What is the law in shooting someone in your home who doesn't belong there?
    There is no duty to retreat, and while there is no castle law, the end result is about the same. I'd suggest reading up on it though.

    As for college campuses, it's legal, but against almost all policies, and will get you removed (or expelled if you're a student).
    Well I guess as long as it's not illegal, concealed means concealed.

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    For Washington State University it just appears to be for students.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=504-26-213
    WAC 504-26-213
    Firearms and dangerous weapons.
    No student may carry, possess, or use any firearm, explosive (including fireworks), dangerous chemical, or any dangerous weapon on university property or in university-approved housing. Airsoft guns and other items that shoot projectiles are not permitted in university-approved housing. Students wishing to maintain a firearm on campus for hunting or sporting activities must store the firearm with the Washington State University department of public safety.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Gene Beasley's Avatar
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    p2a1x7 wrote:
    For Washington State University it just appears to be for students.
    Partially true; from the Faculty Manual page 30:

    14. Possession by a faculty member, on his or her person or otherwise, of a firearm, explosive, or other dangerous weapon within any office, laboratory or classroom building, lecture hall, residence hall, or sports arena on University property, and any immediately contiguous grounds, walkways and malls, except as follows:
    a) Those faculty members who also are authorized law enforcement officers shall be permitted to carry arms while on duty and engaged in regular activities of law enforcement.
    b) Faculty members with firearms in their possession shall be permitted to travel enroute to or from the University-provided storage facilities. Such facilities shall be available twenty-four hours per day for short- or long-term firearm storage.
    c) Activities requiring use of the prohibited items by faculty members may be conducted upon approval by the Board of Regents or their designee.
    d) Nothing in this article is intended to restrict the lawful possession by faculty members of firearms in privately owned vehicles on the University campus, within University-owned housing other than residence halls, or on other University property not specifically indicated above.
    Sounds like you can take it to and from your locker - unless they're referring to the same locker for student firearms at WSU Public Safety.

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    NavyLT wrote:
    Nearly all, if not all, Washington State Universities have Washington Administrative Codes that ban firearms on their campuses. As far as I know, WAC's have the same enforceability and authority as RCW's, because it is the RCW's that give certain organizations the authority to enact WAC's.
    That is not the case. They cannot arrest you for violating a WAC. All the WAC is is school policy. If it was law then they could arrest you for being racist or something.

  24. #24
    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    My opinion is that the WAC at the UW is only enforceable on the general public in that the UW Policecan ask you to leave. If you refuse, they can trespass you. My reasoning is listed below. Of course, I am NOT a lawyer, so doing your own research and coming to your own conclusions is recommended.

    Conduct on the UW campus.

    478-124-020 lists prohibited conduct, one of which is possession of weapons on campus.

    478-124-030 lists sanctions for violations.

    (1) Any person while on the university campus who willfully refuses the request of a uniformed campus police officer to desist from conduct prohibited by these rules may be required by such officer to leave such premises.

    (2) Disciplinary action which may result in dismissal from the university will be initiated against faculty, staff or students who violate these rules, in accordance with the applicable disciplinary codes or other appropriate due process procedures.

    (3) Sanctions which may be imposed against faculty are set forth in the University of Washington Handbook, Volume II, Chapter 25, Sections 25-51 and 25-71.

    (4) Sanctions which may be imposed against students are set forth in WAC 478-120-040.

    (5) Sanctions which may be imposed against classified staff are set forth in the relevant University of Washington labor contract for contract-classified staff, and in Title 357 WAC and applicable university policy for classified nonunion staff.

    (6) Sanctions which may be imposed against the professional staff are set forth in the University of Washington Professional Staff Program.

    (7) Violation of any of the above regulations may also constitute violation of the criminal laws or ordinances of the city of Seattle, State of Washington, or the United States and may subject a violator to criminal sanctions in addition to any sanctions imposed by the university.


    Nowhere are criminal penalties mentioned, because there are none. Staff and students can be sanctioned. Anyone else can be asked to leave. Refusal then would fall under criminal trespass statutes.

    Laws do not tell us what we can do, they tell us what we cannot do. If there is no law against something, then it is by default, legal activity.


    Going a step further:

    RCW 9.41.280 Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities – penalty – exceptions

    (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:


    This RCW doesn’t apply to the university because it is not a primary or secondary school.

    RCW 9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places – Local laws and ordinances – Exceptions – Penalty.

    Nowhere in this RCW does it mention schools at all, let alone universities. Therefore it also does not apply.


    Therefore, there is no criminal penalty for possession of a firearm on campus. There are sanctions against students and staff, but not on other citizens other than asked to leave and then charged with criminal trespass if they refused to leave campus when directed by the campus police.

    Technically, Seattle PD cannot ask one to leave the campus for weapons possession. The WAC says specifically a uniformed campus police officer must make the request.

    CZ 75B 9mm, Ruger P94 .40 S&W, Bersa Thunder .380, AR-15 Homebuild

  25. #25
    inNV
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    So you are not alllowed per the school, but it is not illegal. As long as you can't get arrested or lose your license and/or firearm, concealed is concealed. Although I guess it is a good thing they have those lock boxes. My big issue is not having it driving to and from school. In NV, you can't even have it in your car on a campus. Actually there are provisions that allow you to carry on a campus...either you are law enforcement, or you can get written permission from the president..which never happens. I would be fine leaving it in a lock box...U Dub is looking pretty good...

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