Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Save Rampart Range!!

  1. #1
    Regular Member ooghost1oo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    262

    Post imported post

    Fellow Colorado Open Carriers,

    In case you didn't see it on my OC Facebook group, PLEASE take action to save Rampart Range. I found the guy in charge, and he said that our letters WILL influence their decision on whether or not to close it. Here's the info from Facebook: (skip to the bottom for contact info, but please read)

    ----------------

    Rampart Range needs our help!!

    Those of you in Colorado Springs are probably familiar with Rampart Range. Those of you elsewhere in Colorado may not.

    Rampart Range is a free, unsupervised shooting range in Colorado Springs above Garden of the Gods. It's had mixed reviews, and, since it IS unsupervised, has had a spotty reputation and the occasional problems you'd expect from an unsupervised range.

    Well, the other day, two guys from Aurora were trying to clear a firearm (probably unsafely), and one was shot in the chest and killed. It was the first fatality at Rampart Range, and the authorities reacted as government always does: by attempting to close it down.

    I heard it was already closed by now, but I heard on the news today that there will be a vote tomorrow (Thursday) on whether or not to close the range. I don't have any more information than that, but I was at work and at the time I'm composing this message, all government employees have gone home for the day.

    Please, any of you that can, call in tomorrow morning to Sheriff Maketa, the Forest Service, and any other places you think might help to suggest that Rampart Range stays open and that one bad apple shouldn't spoil it for the thousands of other people who shoot up there.

    I've heard many people concerned about unsafe practices up there, drinking, 'gangsters', and so on, but it's a free, public range. It is we, responsible gun-owners, who should be using our judgement about the safety up there, setting good examples, and discouraging and driving away reckless shooters. If we aren't responsible enough or confrontational enough to make the range safe ourselves, by being responsible (ourselves) and 'having a talk' with those who aren't, then there are still other options. Like volunteer range-masters, for instance.

    Please help save the range any way you can. It's a good range, and it's the only forest land in El Paso where people can shoot.

    ----------------

    Update:

    There is no vote. The Range is closed temporarily. But the office listed above is putting together a 'team' of some sort to review the situation and decide whether or not to keep the range open, and in what conditions. The guy I talked to is "Tony", the staff officer.

    He asked to send an email, which they will keep on record for help influencing their ultimate decision about the range.

    So send letters, folks.Your letters can actually make a difference here.

    (Here's the letter I sent

    ----------------

    Attn: Tony

    My name is Eddie Patin, and I am a responsible gun owner who enjoys the use of Rampart Range.

    It is a sad thing that a couple of unsafe shooters were involved in the range's first fatality the other day, but I implore you to keep the range open for general public use. Being an unsupervised range, there is bound to be unsafe practices from time to time, but the majority of shooters there are responsible people who would be hard-pressed and very disappointed to have to find another free, open area to practice their hobby.

    We, as responsible shooters, familiar with gun safety and holding such safety in high regard, try to set role models at the range for novice shooters and are capable of judging safety conditions ourselves. I, myself, would not shoot up there on a day when I saw unsafe conditions present, or would discuss safety with persons being unsafe. I'm sure many of the other shooters there would act in the same manner.

    As you know, thousands of people use Rampart Range, and it would be a real shame if one bad apple spoiled it for the rest of us.

    I again implore you to keep the range open, either as it is, or with perhaps implementing a volunteer range-master program, or keeping a minimal staff during peak hours.

    Thank you for your consideration.

    Sincerely,

    Eddie Patin
    Colorado Springs


    ----------------

    In the letter I sent you all, I forgot to include Tony's email address. For those of you that didn't check the discussion board, here it is:

    r2_psicc_webmail@fs.fed.us
    Tony, Staff Officer
    Pike and San Isabel Nation Forest, Supervisor's Office
    719-553-1400

    Please email Tony TODAY and tell him that you want Rampart Range to stay open. That one bad apple shouldn't spoil it for all of us.

  2. #2
    Regular Member ooghost1oo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    262

    Post imported post

    Hope you guys are helping out here. Please send a letter if you haven't. This is happening. Right now.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Lakewood, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,250

    Post imported post

    So what happened? Is it open, after all? I will be down there Sunday and would want to stop by the Rampart Range.

  4. #4
    Regular Member ooghost1oo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    262

    Post imported post

    I haven't had any further correspondence with Tony since he acknowledged receipt of my letter. Tried calling him, but haven't connected yet.

    If anyone wants to call themselves (and the more calls requesting Rampart Range to stay open, the better), reach them here:

    Tony, Staff Officer
    Pike and San Isabel Nation Forest, Supervisor's Office
    719-553-1400

    Apparently, the district ranger's name (for Pikes Peak area) is Brent Bott, if you'd like to call him as well.

    If you're heading up there anyway, let us know what you find...

  5. #5
    Regular Member ooghost1oo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    262

    Post imported post

    Here's the response I got from Tony, btw, back in July 09:


    Thank you for your comment, Mr. Patin. This is only a temporary closure while the team conducts its review. Following, the Forest Supervisor will determine the course of action needed in relation to the future of the range.

    Anthony Edwards Physical Resources Staff Officer
    Pike & San Isabel National Forests/Cimarron & Comanche National Grasslands
    Phone: (719) 553-1417
    Cell: (719) 351-3854
    email: aedwards@fs.fed.us

  6. #6
    Regular Member ooghost1oo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    262

    Post imported post

    Just sent Tony a follow-up:

    (Yes, I also got the NRA 'Save Rampart Range' newsletter, so it got me thinking about it again.)

    ----


    Anthony Edwards
    Physical Resources Staff Officer
    Pike & San Isabel National Forests/Cimarron & Comanche National Grasslands
    Phone: (719) 553-1417
    Cell: (719) 351-3854
    email: aedwards@fs.fed.us


    Hi, Tony.

    Just wanted to check in on the status of the investigation still pending about Rampart Range.

    I'd like to emphasize that normal firearm enthusiasts are very safety-minded people, and most everyone who used Rampart Range was even more aware of maintaining proper gun handling and safety due to the fact that the range was unregulated.

    This is the only free range available in Colorado Springs, and a single shooting accident over the entire course the range has been open is NOT a valid reason to close the place down for the thousands of other people who cannot afford to use an indoor range and have been using Rampart Range safely for years. Please don't be simply 'reactive' like so many less responsible government agencies and shut it down due to a single freak occurrence.

    Please re-open the range, or forward this to the appropriate person who is involved with the decision.

    Regards,

    Eddie Patin
    Colorado Springs


  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Lakewood, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,250

    Post imported post

    Thanks for sending him those emails and I think your letter was great. From the sound of the letter you received- they'll try to have it "temporarily" closed forever? We'll get it open. What a great(free) place to shoot at, too, for metro-Denver folks who visit Garden of the Gods and Pike's Peak.

  8. #8
    Regular Member ooghost1oo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    262

    Post imported post

    Update (from NRA newsletter)

    -----------


    Support Needed to Re-Open Rampart Shooting Range! Following an accidental shooting last July, theForest Service closed the very popular and heavily used Rampart Shooting Range on the Pike National Forest. In its nearly 20 year history, Rampart had never before experienced a shooting-related injury or fatality.Rampartis the only free public range in El Paso County and receives 40,000 visitors a year. The Service called the closure a "time-out" in order to assess whether the design of the range was a factor. An investigation determined that the range was not a factor in the accident.Safety experts have said that the accident could have happened at any range. Butafter it closed Rampart,theForest Servicedevised a schemetokeep the range closed permanently.

    The Forest Service has listed requirements that must be met before it will reopen Rampart. There is no timetable formeeting these requirements and likely no moneyto cover costs. The most significantissue is the requirement of full time supervision.Most ranges on federal landsoperate without supervision and this requirement could place all such ranges in jeopardy. Rampart Range is in need of improvements, which were identified more than two years ago. Such improvements can be addressed and implemented with therange reopened.The Forest Servicehas said that it could take up to five years beforeRampart is reopened, but there is no guarantee that it would reopen Rampart in that timeframe or at any time in the future.

    NRA has been working to get Rampart Range reopened since the day it was closed, but we need the help of Colorado hunters and shooters to show the Forest Service and your elected officials that the federal government cannot continue to closepublic lands to recreational shooting, and certainly not without replacing those areas lost with other areas of the same or greater value.Rampart Shooting Range is an important resource for the shooting community along the Front Range.There is no incentive for theForest Service to reopen Rampartunless the shooting sports communitydemands it!

    Shooting ranges on public lands are few and far between in Colorado. In addition to the closure of Rampart, theForest Service has closed its lands to recreational shooting near Boulder and on the Pawnee Grasslands, and large acreageclosures have occurred west of Sedalia. The Forest Service is not planning for recreational shooting. Closures are imposed without opening new areas and needed improvements to existing areas, including the Rampart Shooting Range, have not been made. Recreational shooting is not being treated by the Forest Service in Colorado asa legitimate and valued recreational activityon forest lands.

    Pleasesend an e-mail in support ofthe immediate reopening of Rampartto:
    Tom Tidwell, Chief of the Forest Service, at ttidwell@fs.fed.us, and copyyour letter to:
    Senator Mark Udall at senator_mark_udall@markudall.senate.gov,
    Senator Michael Bennet at http://bennet.senate.gov/contact/,
    CongressmanDoug Lamborn at CO05ima@mail.house.gov, and
    Governor Bill Ritter by clicking here.
    Please stress that keeping the range closed is not supportable by the investigative report; that the closure has robbed the shooting community of a valuable resource; and that needed improvements to the range can be planned and implemented without closure.

    ---------

    (Re-sent my original letter to Chief Tom Tidwell today.)


  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1

    Post imported post

    Hello everyone -
    I'm new to this site and am posting because it seems to be the only place that allows posting. CSSA doesn't have a forum yet and, despite my membership, the NRA seems way too large to hear anything I have to say. I really do not like the NRA being involved in a local matter. The tone of their announcement is "reopen it or else" when they have no understanding of what Rampart is like.

    When I was training for my CCW I went up to Rampart a lot and perhaps 2000 of the rounds in that hillside are mine. This was back in the late 1990's and while Rampart was a nasty garbage dump, it was safe to shoot. In the years that followed, more and more of the shooters there were thugs and hoodlums. I saw them drinking heavily, tossing bottles into the air, and shooting at them. They ALWAYS missed the bottle and never understood that their angle of fire was WAY above the backstop and actually pointing to the road. It was after incidents like this that I stopped going. I hate driving 30 minutes up a rough road only to turn right around and go home.

    Other than the principle of the thing, why is the NRA wanting to reopen rampart? This is an AWFUL PLACE and as much as I enjoy shooting, I will never go back there. I totally understand why there is so much resistance to reopening this and would rather pay a membership to a shooting club than be shot in the back and have my guns stolen. Unfortunately, I do neither and my guns sit in the safe except for the rare trip to the indoor range in Aurora.

    So, I am venting here ... and not sharing these thoughts with Udall, Bennett, and Ritter. LOL. Does anyone think they are pro-gun especially when asked to rule on reopening a place that is a filthy trash dump and a physical threat to people who are just driving by?

    Someone tell me ... HOW can we reopen Rampart yet have it NOT be a trashdump where hoodlums shoot at each other? If we can come up with a solution to that, then we have a valid argument for reopening the range.

    -Dan

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787

    Post imported post

    thedanc wrote:
    Someone tell me ... HOW can we reopen Rampart yet have it NOT be a trashdump where hoodlums shoot at each other? If we can come up with a solution to that, then we have a valid argument for reopening the range.

    -Dan
    Simple - sue the party(ies) who closed it and request from the judge mediation (NOT arbitration) to sit down with them, discuss more tenable solutions that the show-stopper they proposed.

    Present a clear, concise plan, including examples of signs to be posted, both entering the area, as well as on the range proper. Ensure the complement of signs include acceptable range times, such as one hour after sunrise to one hour before sunset, a simple diagram of the area, including the firing line and the target area, brief and simple, yet clear range safety rules. I would include an actual firing line, perhaps a thick, red nylon string strung waist-high between two permanently mounted poles with red circles atop them. Other rules such as a 5-minute weapons-down CEASE FIRE! to be called on the hour, 20 minutes after the hour, and 40 minutes after the hour, regardless of who's at the range or how many, along with strict rules for ensuring the range is clear before firing is allowed to commence. ALCOHOL IS STRICTLY FORBIDEN UNDER CRS (insert the one prohibiting any use of alcohol while in possession of a firearm).

    And another sign which says, "Please report any and all violations of these rules IMMEDIATELY to X at 555-1234."

    Yes, it's a few signs. But it's common sense, and we all see it at every private range we visit. Similar rules were clearly posted at all military firing ranges I visited.

    Given the federal law, and this plan, I think any mediator worth their weight in crackers would find this acceptible.

    If someone can find a mediator and/or handle the legal end, I'll PowerPoint the requisite signs.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •