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Thread: Involved in an accident, and they detain me & my weapons!??!?!?

  1. #1
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    Well, my rights were clearly violated tonight. I was involved in a collision( I was the passenger), the officers checked in on me and the other people involved in the crash. He seen that I was carrying my knives openly, and asked why I had them, I told him I am a proud supporter of the 2nd ammendment, he then proceeded to take my weapons as a "precaution" and then proceeded to put me in cuffs throw me into the back of the squad about 5 minutes later(no rights were read to me any ANY time btw),They took me downtown. I was later released and given a $303.00 ticket for Possession of a switchblade. The officer told me that I may get my weapons back after the court date,but he couldn't be sure. I was then given a ticket. NONE of my knives were returned to me. I have a court date in late august...Was any of this crap legal? And does anyone know a good lawyer who might be able to help me out?
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    Regular Member XDFDE45's Avatar
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    Mind my asking what type of knives and what length the blades are?
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    My knives were as follows BTW, 1 six inch Dagger, 1 S&W 6 inch Tonto Blade, and 1 EKT 3 1/4 inch Folder(<----the supposed "Switchblade")...
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    Regular Member XDFDE45's Avatar
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    As long as they were in the open and in plain sight there isNO reason you should have been detained and issued a ticket. I was talking about my EDC knives that I carry and I've hadLE ask me what kind of knife it was and if theycould take a look. Only once was I asked what I used themfor and I told them for work cutting boxes and banding.
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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Eeew.... This statute could be read to encompass quite a broad range of knives....even a normal pocket knife.



    941.24 Possession of switchblade knife. (1) Whoever
    manufactures, sells or offers to sell, transports, purchases, pos-
    sesses or goes armed with any knife having a blade which opens
    by pressing a button, spring or other device in the handle or by
    gravity or by a thrust or movement is guilty of a Class A misde-
    meanor.
    (2) Within 30 days after April 16, 1959, such knives shall be
    surrendered to any peace officer.
    History: 1977 c. 173.

    A thrust or movement? Wow. This could make any non-fixed blade knife illegal. It's broad enough though that I'd hope it would have a hard time holding up in court. BUT; since you shouldn't have been detained in the first place or had your knives siezed I would hobe it wouldn't get that far.

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    Sorry what type of knife are we talking about? (EKT)

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    Landose_theghost wrote:
    Well, my rights were clearly violated tonight. I was involved in a collision( I was the passenger), the officers checked in on me and the other people involved in the crash. He seen that I was carrying my knives openly, and asked why I had them, I told him I am a proud supporter of the 2nd ammendment, he then proceeded to take my weapons as a "precaution" and then proceeded to put me in cuffs throw me into the back of the squad about 5 minutes later(no rights were read to me any ANY time btw),They took me downtown. I was later released and given a $303.00 ticket for Possession of a switchblade. The officer told me that I may get my weapons back after the court date,but he couldn't be sure. I was then given a ticket. NONE of my knives were returned to me. I have a court date in late august...Was any of this crap legal? And does anyone know a good lawyer who might be able to help me out?
    Sounds like severe over-reaching by the LEOs. That sucks.

    Was there any back-and-forth heat between you and the officer? Any heat between you two?

    Was the driver of the car you were in charged with any traffic violation?



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    You may be able to find some helpful information here http://www.kniferights.org/.

    I hope all goes well.



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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Wisconsin - 941.24. Possession of switchblade knife. (1)
    Whoever manufactures, sells or offers to sell, transports,
    purchases, possesses or goes armed with any knife having a
    blade which opens by pressing a button, spring or other
    device in the handle or by gravity or by a thrust or
    movement is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor...


    Any pics of a knife like yours???

    Looks like you are raising3 issues. Whether your detainment and "arrest" was conducted legally,whether or not 1 of your your knives is a switchblade and whether he can legally take the other knives and keep them until the court date. Was this in the city of Green Bay? Your course of actionsounds pretty straight forward. You plead not guilty as the burden of proof that it is a switchblade is on them. The judge may even toss it out. Green Bay Code only addressed concealed or acting threatening so there is no seperate Green Bay "switchblade" ordinance.

    Unless you have the money for a lawyer, the easiest thing for you to contest will be the citation itself if indeed it is just an ordinary folding knife as you are stating.

    On another note, let's talk about the picnic.....


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    "Possession of switchblade knife" is the epithet of the sub-chapter and the subsequent verbiage is the specification of the prohibition and not the definition of 'switchblade'.

    If the words "goes armed with any knife having a blade which opens [ ... ] by a ... movement is guilty" mean anything the the state statute has been violated.

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    Interceptor_Knight wrote:
    On another note, let's talk about the picnic.
    Yes, let us speak of non-controversial and non-divisive issues.

    I carry a flick-knife. Even my GI TL-29 electrician's knife was so smoothly operating, due to many hours with grinding compound, as to open with a flick of the wrist. The Leviathan will not be sated until we are all disarmed of wits and weapons.

    The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Interceptor_Knight wrote:
    On another note, let's talk about the picnic.
    Yes, let us speak of non-controversial and non-divisive issues.
    Way to jump right in to a conversation that you do not understand......

    I have been waiting for Landose to show back up in the other thread for a few days and asked for contact info as there are some items which have a need for discussion. This really doesn't involve you and your adding of a snide comment is not appreciated.

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    Oh shoot, my sarcasm went over someone's head. Darn. DILLIGAF!

    I got a phone call just a moment ago from a leading citizen remarking on ignorant statutes and ordinances. His concern is alcohol related.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Oh shoot, my sarcasm went over someone's head. Darn. DILLIGAF!
    It's not just your sarcasm that shoots for the stars...

    Doug Huffman wrote:
    "Possession of switchblade knife" is the epithet of the sub-chapter and the subsequent verbiage is the specification of the prohibition and not the definition of 'switchblade'.

    If the words "goes armed with any knife having a blade which opens [ ...] by a ... movement is guilty" mean anything the the state statute has been violated.
    Could you explain this in plain; every day use, English please. I'm interested in your opinion but can't for the life of me decipher what you are trying to say.
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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    His concern is alcohol related.
    His being under the influence of alcoholmade him think about ignorant statutes and ordinances?

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    Brass Magnet wrote:
    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Oh shoot, my sarcasm went over someone's head. Darn. DILLIGAF!
    It's not just your sarcasm that shoots for the stars...

    Doug Huffman wrote:
    "Possession of switchblade knife" is the epithet of the sub-chapter and the subsequent verbiage is the specification of the prohibition and not the definition of 'switchblade'.

    If the words "goes armed with any knife having a blade which opens [ ...] by a ... movement is guilty" mean anything the the state statute has been violated.
    Could you explain this in plain; every day use, English please. I'm interested in your opinion but can't for the life of me decipher what you are trying to say.
    I understand it, it is in a pseudo-legaleese dialect most commonly used in central Madison and other government buildings in major cities throughout the US. Mylinguistics training in that dialect came alongas an extra credit electice course withmy ebonics degree.

    The staute does not specifically state "what a switchblade is" or what parts must be on the knife to fit their defenition of "Switchblade" or the exact operation of the knife to be considered a "Switchblade Knife" . Meaning that the statute is very vague and open to personal interpretation.Possible that officer interpreted different than the courts will interpret it. I think he has a good chance of winning this case if he has a fair court without a biased judge.

    As per answering any questions the officer asked, It may have been in your best interest to ****, you were an innocent bystander up until that point. the topic of "Never speak to the police without proper legal representation" has been hashed over several times. Now do you believe it??

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Nutczak wrote:
    The staute does not specifically state "what a switchblade is" or what parts must be on the knife to fit their defenition of "Switchblade" or the exact operation of the knife to be considered a "Switchblade Knife" . Meaning that the statute is very vague and open to personal interpretation.
    any knife having a
    blade which opens by pressing a button, spring or other
    device in the handle or by gravity or by a thrust or
    movement
    Although vague andsubject tointerpretation , it does give a definition.

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    The statute is supposed to encompass:

    Switchblades: Where you activate a catch that causes the blade to be sprung open.

    Butterfly knives: They open by "movement" (hard to explain here, but a search on youtube will show you what I mean)

    There are also "inertial" knives that are held with the blade retracted by a weak spring. If you make a quick motion kinda like shaking a salt shaker or ketchup bottle, the weight of the blade overpowers the spring and the blade is locked open. Pressing a release causes the blade to snap back into the handle.

    In essence...there's a number of styles of knife that open fast without needing to physically touch the blade.

    Most of the "locking folders", even the ones with a spring assist, do not meet the letter of the law - you are physically pushing the blade, then the spring assists. You are not pressing a release on the handle, and not using inertia to open the knife.

    The dude with the polished blade that he can open with a flick of the wrist....you could easily have legal problems with that.



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    Teej wrote:

    The dude with the polished blade that he can open with a flick of the wrist....you could easily have legal problems with that.


    Problem is that under normal wear and tear a knife can do that after a while. I used to have one that I owned for 10 years that just wore in. With a slight push on the blade with my thumb and a flick of the wrist it came right out.
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    The Leviathan will not be sated until we are all disarmed of wits and weapons.

    The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Doug Huffman wrote:
    The Leviathan will not be sated until we are all disarmed of wits and weapons.

    The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.
    Your choices as I see it areto comply and fight the legislation up to and including file a lawsuit based on the law being unconstitutional while not risking confrontation with a LEO, or ignore the law and carry a prohibited weapon knowing that you may be cited and charged. You then need to be prepared for the consequences and whether or not you are willing and have the resources to appeal or otherwise fight the conviction.

    I will refer you to the case of David Olofson. When you mess with the bull you may get the horns...

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    Hey thanks for all the insight on this one. I know somebody had asked for a pix of my knives...they're posted below. The s&w & Ekt are the EXACT ones I was wearing, the Dagger was custom made but looks close to the one i've posted here.




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    That EKT sure doesn't look like a "switch blade" to me since it obviously has that little button on the blade such that it is required of your thumb or other digit to manually apply pressure to actually open the knife.



    I'd fight it. And then I'd call Jesus' lawyer and talk about a Fourth Amendment federal civil rights lawsuit. By them taking you down to the "cop shop" with having been notified of your Miranda rights, you were unlawfully arrested. Plus, they could be charged with a "Color of Law" violation since they unlawfully arrested you. Ignorance of the law is not a defense in these cases. I don't have all the citations required to make this a truly proper post and IANAL so this is not legal advice, of course.
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 - "A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but the fool's heart to the left."

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    Sorrell v. McGuigan may be a useful cite in this case:
    Crispin Sorrell sued Sergeant Michael F. McGuigan of the Charles County, Maryland, Sheriff's Department, claiming among other things that McGuigan was liable under 42 U.S.C. ยง 1983 for illegally arresting him for carrying a folding knife with a three-inch blade. In summary judgment proceedings, the district court concluded that McGuigan arrested Sorrell without probable cause. The court also concluded that McGuigan was not entitled to qualified immunity because it was clearly established at the time of Sorrell's arrest that his knife fit within the penknife exception to Maryland's concealed weapons law.
    Somewhat similar to say the least. This is also a case where the courts say that ignorance of the law is no excuse; and that INCLUDES the officers.
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    I'm not sure how to get in contact with Jesus' lawyer, anybody have an e-mail address?
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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