Roseville PD changes wait for handgun permits

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I sent this to the Roseville police Chief on July 16th. The modified there website to reflect the law on handgun purchase permits.

Dear Chief Heinz,

I am President of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. a Michigan non-profit pro-gun rights organization that was formed to educate the public and the law enforcement community on the legality of openly carrying a firearm as well as defending all firearm rights. One of our members informed me that you are illegally forcing people to wait up to 10 days for a pistol purchase permit to be issued in direct violation of Michigan statute 28.422 (Excerpt below). This statute specifically states “…in discharging the duty to issue licenses shall with due speed and diligence issue licenses…” The intent of this law was to issue a permit immediately or to immediately deny a permit if a prohibited person. Other departments both large and small around the state follow the law and issue permits while a person waits.

I want to see a policy change on this issue within 10 business days. If you continue to illegally enforce this policy I will contact our corporate attorney in this regard and pursue any legal action as allowed by law.

I thank you for your time and consideration in this matter and appreciate the difficult job you all do.

Respectfully,

Brian G. Jeffs, MS, CPG
President-Michigan Open Carry, Inc.

From Your website FAQ

How do I obtain a gun permit?

You must first fill out an application to purchase a gun permit. These applications are at the front desk of the Police Department. It takes 7 to 10 days to be approved after you fill out the application. You must call the Records Bureau to find out if you have been approved or denied (gun applications are good for one year). After you have been approved, you must go to the Records Bureau during the hours specified. There is no charge and the gun permit is only good for ten (10) days. Once the gun is purchased, you have ten (10) days to come back and get the gun registered.

Act 372 of 1927

28.422 License to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistol; issuance; qualifications; applications; sale of pistol; exemptions; nonresidents; basic pistol safety brochure; forging application; implementation during business hours.

Sec. 2.

….(3) The commissioner or chief of police of a city, township, or village police department that issues licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols, or his or her duly authorized deputy, or the sheriff or his or her duly authorized deputy, in the parts of a county not included within a city, township, or village having an organized police department, in discharging the duty to issue licenses shall with due speed and diligence issue licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols to qualified applicants residing within the city, village, township, or county, as applicable unless he or she has probable cause to believe that the applicant would be a threat to himself or herself or to other individuals, or would commit an offense with the pistol that would violate a law of this or another state or of the United States. An applicant is qualified if all of the following circumstances exist:

Received this today from the Chief.

Brian and Jon:

Our police web site answer on “How do I obtain a gun permit” has been amended. Thanks for your correspondence.

Chief Mike Pachla

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This is what they have posted now.


"How do I obtain a gun permit?
You must first fill out an application to purchase a gun permit. These applications are at the front desk of the Police Department. In discharging its duty to issue a permit, the Police Department will do so with due speed and diligence. You must call the Records Bureau to find out if you have been approved or denied (gun applications are good for one year). After you have been approved, you must go to the Records Bureau during the hours specified. There is no charge and the gun permit is only good for ten (10) days. Once the gun is purchased, you have ten (10) days to come back and get the gun registered.

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Unfortunately, it looks like they will still make you wait for approval by making you call to see if you've been approved.

Being very new to the gun world, I was amazed that I could go to the sheriffs' dept. and get a purchase permit, head to the local gun store and buy a gun (and ammo) and be home with my new purchase in a matter of two hours.

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Smart arses.

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drew68 wrote:

Being very new to the gun world, I was amazed that I could go to the sheriffs' dept. and get a purchase permit, head to the local gun store and buy a gun (and ammo) and be home with my new purchase in a matter of two hours.

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Same here for Jackson County. Fortunatly I have a CPL now and if I want can buy one without a purchase permit now.

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I love being able to go buy a gun without having to stop at the local pd.


I thought they got rid of the whole registering and inspecting?So why would I have to take my gun back to the pd?

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Really not trying to be a smarty, just commenting on the absurdity of the differences of the rules within the same state. The recent vote to allow national concealed carry sparked all kinds of debate about the federal government stepping on the rights of the state, but even when a state has laws they still go about them in different ways. I think it calls for a little :banghead:

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cabman1 wrote:

I love being able to go buy a gun without having to stop at the local pd

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+1,000,000

I agree that is a huuuge plus. As well as not having to lock it in your trunk when your driving.

Remember, you can make Oc'ing a lot easier on yourself with a cpl. For those interested please sign up for the cpl class being offered. It's a lot cheaper than what most places offer. Trust me, I know that $100 can be tough to come up with these days but if you have been thinking about doing it now is the time!

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/28789.html

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I thought I got a deal for my CPL class at $125...

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FatboyCykes wrote:

Smart arses.

Click to expand...

Really not trying to be a smarty, just commenting on the absurdity of the differences of the rules within the same state. The recent vote to allow national concealed carry sparked all kinds of debate about the federal government stepping on the rights of the state, but even when a state has laws they still go about them in different ways. I think it calls for a little :banghead:

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That wasn't directed at you Drew, but rather the Roseville PD. It seems they think it's a funny joke instead of a violation of the law.

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That wasn't directed at you Drew, but rather the Roseville PD. It seems they think it's a funny joke instead of a violation of the law.

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My wife keeps telling me it's not all about me, i'm sensing a theme here

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I think they may need a little hand holding in this case.'

You should write it out for them and submit it to them. They're obviously having a hard time understanding the law.

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Venator wrote:

I sent this to the Roseville police Chief on July 16th. The modified there website to reflect the law on handgun purchase permits.

Dear Chief Heinz,

....

Received this today from the Chief.

Brian and Jon:

Our police web site answer on “How do I obtain a gun permit” has been amended. Thanks for your correspondence.

Chief Mike Pachla

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Excellent work, Venator and MOC.

I think some of the letter's wording wasa bit brusque.Perhapsthat's just due to a style bias or something. But you got your point across and the public information changed, so it's a success.

Gotta take this opportunity to empathize with all of you Michiganders. Wow-eeee! You've got gunrules up the ying yang.

It's very nice to view the activities and progress of MOC. You guys are doing great. I think you're following in the footsteps of successful gun rights advocacy orgs. likeVCDL, OCDO, BFA, etc.Keep up the good work.

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drew68 wrote:

Unfortunately, it looks like they will still make you wait for approval by making you call to see if you've been approved.

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Of course, it may be possible to meet bureacratic ineptness or intentional slowness with creative ways to light a fire under the bureacrat's butt.

I wonder if it's not too expensive, and it's legally OK, tohire a robo-calling service to call every 5 minutes with the message, "Hi, this is [insert your name] calling aboutmy handgun purchase permit. Please press 1 if approved, 2 if denied, or 3 if still in process".

I would think after a couple of hours of calls every 5 minutes, perhaps the spirit of "due speed and diligence" might be adhered to.

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I have email the Chief to ask what the time frame is and what their process will be. I'll post what he writes.

In the meantime you can email and ask what the process is. If they get 100 emails asking, they might understand that this is an important issue.

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DanM wrote:

I wonder if it's not too expensive, and it's legally OK, tohire a robo-calling service . . .

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Rarely do I talk to myself and even more rarely do I quote and respond to myself. However, it occurred to me that an alternative to hiring a robo-call service might be free or cheap software for your computer to do robo-calling.

I just thought I'd share those thoughts with myself.

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DanM wrote:

DanM wrote:

I wonder if it's not too expensive, and it's legally OK, tohire a robo-calling service . . .

Click to expand...

Rarely do I talk to myself and even more rarely do I quote and respond to myself. However, it occurred to me that an alternative to hiring a robo-call service might be free or cheap software for your computer to do robo-calling.

I just thought I'd share those thoughts with myself.

Click to expand...

Or you could pay an out of work person 25 cents a call .

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Venator wrote:

Or you could pay an out of work person 25 cents a call .

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Might even be cheaper. At 25 cents a call, and one call every 5 minutes, that is only $3 an hour...

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I think it would be nice to have a legal information flier that pistol permit seekers could print off that specifies the law, and can be shown to secretaries that file the paper work. I'm sure there are other cities that still do this, so it would be cool if a first time hand gun buyer could have that information in hand while walking into a PD. That way, the worst case scenario would be "you're permit will be ready in a week" and in response, the flier is handed to the clerk, and the permit seeker says "how about an hour instead?"

I think a specific flier could be especially effective if it had official MOC approval, because as we've seen repetitiously, some PD's are a lot more confident about squashing one persons rights than taking on an entire organization.

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You could modify this, the statute is below.

I am President of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. a Michigan non-profit pro-gun rights organization that was formed to educate the public and the law enforcement community on the legality of openly carrying a firearm as well as defending all firearm rights. One of our members informed me that you are illegally forcing people to wait up to 10 days for a pistol purchase permit to be issued in direct violation of Michigan statute 28.422 (Excerpt below). This statute specifically states “…in discharging the duty to issue licenses shall with due speed and diligence issue licenses…” The intent of this law was to issue a permit immediately or to immediately deny a permit if a prohibited person. Other departments both large and small around the state follow the law and issue permits while a person waits.

I want to see a policy change on this issue within 10 business days. If you continue to illegally enforce this policy I will contact our corporate attorney in this regard and pursue any legal action as allowed by law.

I thank you for your time and consideration in this matter and appreciate the difficult job you all do.

Respectfully,
Brian G. Jeffs, MS, CPG
President-Michigan Open Carry, Inc.

Reference:

Act 372 of 1927

28.422 License to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistol; issuance; qualifications; applications; sale of pistol; exemptions; nonresidents; basic pistol safety brochure; forging application; implementation during business hours.
Sec. 2.
….(3) The commissioner or chief of police of a city, township, or village police department that issues licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols, or his or her duly authorized deputy, or the sheriff or his or her duly authorized deputy, in the parts of a county not included within a city, township, or village having an organized police department, in discharging the duty to issue licenses shall with due speed and diligence issue licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols to qualified applicants residing within the city, village, township, or county, as applicable unless he or she has probable cause to believe that the applicant would be a threat to himself or herself or to other individuals, or would commit an offense with the pistol that would violate a law of this or another state or of the United States. An applicant is qualified if all of the following circumstances exist: