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Thread: Attempted Burglary

  1. #1
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    Unfortunately, I have had more "incidents" at my apartment than I would prefer and perhaps I could eventually move but on the other hand I live my life as I see fit and not to the dictates of criminals.

    The other day I was getting ready to head out to work and since I work second shift, I leave around lunch time to go in. About 5-10 minutes away from heading out the door, I hear a knock at my door which is extremely unusual. Friends and family do not come over unless they call first and even if they call, I meet them out front and walk them in. Nobody just "shows up" EVER. The only exception of course would be religious missionaries or salespeople who are not allowed to solicit on the property anyway.

    Anyway, I look out the peephole to find two decently-dressed Hispanic males carrying backpacks and figured they were probably salespeople or missionaries and didn't bother to answer the door. About 1 minute later I hear a crash on my back patio and realize that someone (one of them) jumped the back fence and was already at the back door trying to get the door open. I could also see a silhouette outline of another one (the other one) at the living room window probably trying to look in or get it open. So I quickly grabbed a pump-action 12 gauge Mossberg shotgun and took the safety off of it. As the bad guy at the back door was busy racking his brains trying to figure out why it was practically impossible to get that back door open (I have it triple locked) I appeared at the window (about six inches from his face) with the gun in my hands. For a split second the person's brown face instantly turned white and he was gone before I could even comprehend what was happening. I then run to the front door where he is joining his buddy likely telling him "Let's get the hell out of here." For a splitsecond I thought there was a third man but I left that out of the official report because I had no way of knowing whether this third person was simply passing by or whether he was also involved and couldn't get a usable discription of him anyway.

    Apparently, my front door is also so well secured that not only can the bad guys not get in to get me, but I had trouble getting out just to go after them. In the 5-10 seconds which felt like hours it took for me to get the front door open, I emerged out into the front yard with the shotgun in my hands but they were already 100 feet away running in the distance. At this point I felt like I had more to lose than gain by pursuing them so I went back inside, put the gun away and called the cops. They were quite efficient in getting there quickly and combing the area for them but unfortunately they still got away. The police were not interested in seeing my gun and did not question or criticize my actions. In fact one of them laughed a bit and said "I can imagine what was in their minds when they saw you with the gun."

    I alerted the management as well who said they will also follow up with the authorities. They didn't have any real advice for me because they felt I was doing everything a person can do. My doors and windows are well locked, I have renter's insurance to cover the place, and I had guns and am not afraid to use them.

    Unfortunately, after I relayed this story toa number of people including liberals, I got a lot of armchair quarterbacking. I decided not to go to work that day but the next day my boss believed I should have gotten a camera instead of a gun and taken their pictures. First of all, when your adrenaline is sky-high and you have to think and act fast, you aren't even going to have time to think about getting a camera. Besides, the time it would take to get one would be giving them more time to break the defenses and get inside. Second, suppose you confront them with a camera and they have a gun. That would be stupid. I don't need a camera because the police have those. The police are welcome to take as many pictures of the burgulars as they'd like after I've shot them dead. Without saying the actual words, I made it quite clear to the police that if a bad guy is in my house, they will be bringing a bodybag.

    If some of you wish to comment on this incident, that is up to you but I'm not really interested in "armchair quarterbacking" because you were not there and I was. You have to think and act quickly and the adrenaline spike puts you into a one-dimensional thinking where you are only focused on the threat itself and everything else is locked out of your mind. Some people may argue that it is not wise to appear at the window with the gun or to open the door and go outside with it. Everybody does things differently and what works for you won't necessarily work for me or everybody else. I refuse to live in fear and I am not going to let gang-bangers determine my life. They don't need to speak English because I will speak to them in a language they can understand. Not only was I legally authorized according to Arizona law to threaten the use of deadly force to prevent criminal trespass and second degree burglary but I was also legally authorized to go outside with the gun to administer a lawful citizen's arrest and the firearm was carrying legally as in it was not pointed in an unsafe direction and the firearm was visible (open carry).

    I may consider putting up signs that read "No Trespassing.Violators will be shot. Survivors will be shot again." The liberals can coddle criminals all they want. Not me. Another person mentioned that they could be in a gang and try to retaliate. That's fine by me because next time it won't be a shotgun but an AK-47.



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    This will sound like some Zen nonsense, but it really is true.

    You are the only one who can know whether you over-reacted.

    Just have a long quiet moment to yourself. Go over the incident step by step in your mind. Forget the criticism by the police, family, and anybody on this forum.

    You'll be able to clear it up for yourself. And like I said, you really are the only one who can.





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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    Glad you made it out unharmed and I won't second guess anything you did. I would likely havedone the same. If you are looking for comments, here are my thoughts.

    "The police are welcome to take as many pictures of the burgulars as they'd like after I've shot them dead. Without saying the actual words, I made it quite clear to the police that if a bad guy is in my house, they will be bringing a bodybag."

    I would be very careful about using this type of language. Since I am not a lawyer, I have no basis for it other than I prefer to be conservative on this matter. If it were me talking about it, I would say something like "I will protect my own life by using the appropriate force necessary to stop the threat."

    As far as thesign, I would notput that on my house, but to each his own. In the event that you are ever charged in a self defense event, I can see a sign like that taking center stage at the trial.

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    Campaign Veteran GlockMeisterG21's Avatar
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    Dude, you're alive and they got the ever-living **** scared out of them. You did everything right. Especially by not pursuing. Good job!
    “The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair.” — Col. Jeff Cooper, GUNS & AMMO, January 2002

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    GlockMeisterG21 wrote:
    Dude, you're alive and they got the ever-living @#$% scared out of them. You did everything right. Especially by not pursuing. Good job!
    Agreed, sounds like you did everything right to me. Once they leave your house its no longer a good idea to pursue since you stopped the threat(and maybe made them wet themselves too).

    There isn't much that says "go away" more than the business end of a shotgun... well maybe 2 pissed half starved Rotweilers.

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    Good job man. You did everything as you should have. Keeping the doors secured is the biggest thing, kept them from getting into your house.

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    protector84 wrote:
    I may consider putting up signs that read "No Trespassing.Violators will be shot. Survivors will be shot again."
    I have that sign with the picture of a gun on it and a sign that says "we don't dial 911" with a gun on it as well. They are in the window right next to the front door so you can't miss it (put them inside so no one steals them).

    Good job on the instinctual reactions. I would have done the same thing except the business end of the shotgun would have been in thier immediate direction (not sure if yours was or not...?).:celebrate

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    Monday morning quarterback? No way. You did everything right. You kept your cool and a good job. Congratulations.

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    Glad you were ready and able to defend your property! Congratulations.

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    Don't take this as arm chair quarterbacking, but I think you did do one thing slightly incorrectly.



    If I were you, I wouldn't have put the gun down until I saw the police pull up. Thats it. Other than that you handled it perfectly. I'm sure many other people wouldn't have had the restraint to not pull the trigger on the guy that was at the backdoor.



    Good luck, and I hope that never happens again.





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    protector84 wrote:
    ...

    They don't need to speak English because I will speak to them in a language they can understand.

    ...

    I may consider putting up signs that read "No Trespassing.Violators will be shot. Survivors will be shot again." The liberals can coddle criminals all they want. Not me. Another person mentioned that they could be in a gang and try to retaliate. That's fine by me because next time it won't be a shotgun but an AK-47.
    Apparently you'd need the sign in both English and Spanish

    As for that sign taking center stage, it's a clear warning to any would be criminals and if they choose to ignore it then they deserve to be shot more than if there wasn't a sign.

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    Thing I wouldn't have done was leave my house. You saw two, POSSIBLY three. Not probable, but there could have been 20, and you did them a favor by unlocking the place they had such a hard time getting into.Not only that, but then you went into an environment you didn'tresearch (you didn't mentionlooking through the peep hole again before you busted into the yard) as well as an environment you didn't know (you know your house, you know who's in there and who's not...Outside, you have absolutely no idea, even if you believe you do). There couldvery well have been abadguy who gothis own gun out of the backpack you said they had, pointing it right atthe door,and after fumbling with so many locks you were already in a rush to get outside. Yeah you could have taken one or two, but pumps are just that, and if it were a group they could have gotten you down easily.

    Don't take that as anything but constructive criticism please since you already seem on the offensive about being told what you SHOULD have done, I'm just telling you what I would have done and why. Good job onbeing prepared.

    Ben

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    p2a1x7 wrote:
    As for that sign taking center stage, it's a clear warning to any would be criminals and if they choose to ignore it then they deserve to be shot more than if there wasn't a sign.
    A sign that says "No Trespassing.Violators will be shot. Survivors will be shot again." has the potential to give anunfavorablemessagetothecops and prosecutors, if you ever have to defend yourself in your house. Not all police,prosecutors and judges are Dirty Harry fans.

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    spectr019 wrote:
    Thing I wouldn't have done was leave my house. You saw two, POSSIBLY three. Not probable, but there could have been 20, and you did them a favor by unlocking the place they had such a hard time getting into.Not only that, but then you went into an environment you didn'tresearch (you didn't mentionlooking through the peep hole again before you busted into the yard) as well as an environment you didn't know (you know your house, you know who's in there and who's not...Outside, you have absolutely no idea, even if you believe you do). There couldvery well have been abadguy who gothis own gun out of the backpack you said they had, pointing it right atthe door,and after fumbling with so many locks you were already in a rush to get outside. Yeah you could have taken one or two, but pumps are just that, and if it were a group they could have gotten you down easily.

    Don't take that as anything but constructive criticism please since you already seem on the offensive about being told what you SHOULD have done, I'm just telling you what I would have done and why. Good job onbeing prepared.

    Ben
    Wow--and I thought that I was paranoid!

    Actually, in the extremely unlikely event that such a crowd of people tried to break in somewhere, I'm pretty sure that there would be some sort of indication of the number.


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    I appreciate everyone's responses to this incident. I think it is good when everyone can post any relevant defense issues not to brag about them but so that we can all learn and make better decisions. In terms of some of the constructive criticism, I realize that I left some relevant details out, and I have also re-evaulated the actions so that I can handle it even better should it happen again.

    First, my employer requires that firearms be left inside of a locked vehicle and out of sight. Prior to this incident, my regular habit was simply to place the unloaded handgun in my backpack where my lunch, books, and other personal items go. Upon arriving at work, I take the firearm out and secure it in either the glove box or the car safe. More or less out of laziness, I was going from my home to the car (a relatively short trip) without a holstered firearm simply because I didn't want to fool with holstering the weapon just to have to unholster it again when I arrive to work. To get to the point, considering the fact that there were more than one criminal, I would have gone for the pistol instead of the shotgun because it is semi-automatic allowing me to fire rapidly if needed and small enough that I can quickly get around corners with it. At the time the person was at the back door, the closet weapons were the long guns and the pistol was in the other room, unloaded, and basically out of reach. On the bright side, should one of them had gotten in and I had to use the shotgun, I assume that there would have been a good chance that the first dead badguy's friends would have decided not to join him. Gangs often get their power out of the group itself and if members of the group are already dead or dying, usually the rest of them will decide to hit the road.

    Second, one person assumed that I left the house unlocked allowing the bad guys potential access and another person suggested not to "put the gun away" until the police showed up. Again, I didn't go into full detail before. When I decided not to go after the bad guys after I had opened the door and seen them running, I then locked the door and called the police. I put the gun back in the closet but it was still loaded and while I was on the phone, I was re-checking that all windows/doors were secured. Additionally, before I opened the door to run after them, I did a quick check of the peephole and could see that they were already heading away and were probably about 50 feet at that point. It would be unlikely for some bad guys to run like mad while others were hiding right there. I also did a quick look around when I did jump out.

    As to what I am now doing differently:

    Without exception, I am now visibly armed (with a pistol) at all times on the premises of where I live. Each trip to and from the car, mailbox, or other area means that I am armed and that people can see that if they are paying attention. Not only is it necessary in light of this daytime home invasion attempt to be armed entering/leaving my home at all times, but I also am doing it to send a message to any potential troublemakers that criminal behavior will NOT be tolerated. I do see some people from time to time late at night and early in the morning who do not look like they belong there and if they see me carrying a visible sidearm, I hope that at least sends the message (if they are up to no good) that I am not to be bothered, I am not to be involved, and if I am targeted that there will be grave consequences.

    Last but not least, I printed out the sign myself to put up which reads: "Warning: Trespassers will be Shot. Survivors will be shot again until proven dead." To avoid appearing excessively radical to my neighbors, this will go up in a less conspicious place so that if someone is close enough to read the sign, it means they are way too close to where they shouldn't be. As to legal reprocussions, I don't see that as an issue. I have researched Arizona law in the criminal code on "justification" and it clearly states that deadly physical force may be used if necessary to stop a first or second degree burglary. If anything, the sign would help my "defense" as I clearly have forewarned against criminal conduct ahead of time, now have offical police reports demonstrating that I have already dealt with potential burglaries, so that if despite all of that someone still tries to get in, they essentially asked for it.

    I don't want to have to take a life if I can help it but incidents such as these continue to lower my tolerance toward criminal behavior. I have the right to life, liberty, and property legally obtained. Someone who attempts to take those things away will be dealt with in a harsh manner and I will not apologize for it if it does happen. I really don't care if a criminal "came from abad home" or "ran with the wrong crowd." I believe in personal responsibility. If your life sucks, then do something to fix it. Clean yourself up, read a book, get professional help, associate with better people, and make wiser decisions. I'm tired of this liberal coddling where I am supposed to feel sorry for a criminal because "they came from a bad home" or "they needed a hug" or whatever. You threaten my life or the lives of anyone around me, I will send you to the counseling you need--the one where you are standing before Jesus. Enough said.



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    I think you did everything right, I have handled similar situations almost the same way. Once I have the time to call 911 I do so which is only after I've cleared the area that includes the yard. With guys like these probably knowing that you were there would be enough to scare them but because you were armed I doubt they'll ever return. Your boss is an idiot with the whole camera Idea, it's not about catching criminals it's about defending yourself.

    I do have one criticism and that is your use of the term liberal I believe the word you were looking for was moron.

    HankT wrote:
    This will sound like some Zen nonsense, but it really is true. You are the only one who can know whether you over-reacted. Just have a long quiet moment to yourself. Go over the incident step by step in your mind. Forget the criticism by the police, family, and anybody on this forum. You'll be able to clear it up for yourself. And like I said, you really are the only one who can.
    Glad to see you saying something less critical, shame you had to quote it from Citizen.:P

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    I think that you may have hurt the feelings of the two young men who showed up at your home. They are probably victims of a poor upbringing, and of lower economic advantage than yourself. Most likely inviting them in and offering to write a tuition check to the local community college in their names would have been the right thing to do.

    And what gives you the right to own a gun to stick in their faces?

    Oh, wait a minute....

    ...the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed...

    Never mind.

    (Seriously, great job.)

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    protector84 wrote:
    I decided not to go to work that day but the next day my boss believed I should have gotten a camera instead of a gun and taken their pictures.
    LOL yeah right.



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    protector84 wrote:
    SNIP...

    I may consider putting up signs that read "No Trespassing.Violators will be shot. Survivors will be shot again." The liberals can coddle criminals all they want. Not me. Another person mentioned that they could be in a gang and try to retaliate. That's fine by me because next time it won't be a shotgun but an AK-47.

    Congratulations on a situation well-handled. I'm sure there were a million things running through your mind all at once, and I'd be willing to bet there are plenty of people out there who would have flipped out upon seeing the guy in the window and maybe shot through the glass.

    As for the bold text above... You said you live in an apartment.. Might wanna stick with the shotgun. Better for indoors anyways.

    Good job being prepared.

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    protector84 wrote:
    I decided not to go to work that day but the next day my boss believed I should have gotten a camera instead of a gun and taken their pictures.
    LOL yeah right.

    This is the most wonderous quote (and with a picture) that I have read in a while.

    I figure in this situation, leave the picture taking to CSI:celebrate

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    This gives me an idea. Why doesn't some one invent a mini gun camera. Video recording begins when activated by a pressure switch in stock. Could be rail mounted or via universal mounting system.

    OK all you tinkerers, get busy.

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    --

    Remote Sentry

    Oh...that's not what you meant.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    nobucks wrote:
    --

    Remote Sentry

    Oh...that's not what you meant.
    You could go with a paintball sentry. :P
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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