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Thread: OC under 21?

  1. #1
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    Ok, I have been reading these posts, and I have some questions I need answered.

    I have a step-son who is 19, has been convicted two times with-in the last five years of assault and battery on a family member, has been ordered and completed outpatient drug and anger managment classes. CAN HE LEGALLY OPENLY CARRY, POSSESS OR OWN A HANGUN IN THE STATE OF VIRGINIA? Even if it is given as a gift, no money to transfer hands? Also, how old does he have to be to LEGALLY purchase a handgun in Virginia? TO ME, for someone like him to be able to legally purchase, carry, or own a handgun is asking for something to happen. OR, any firearm for that fact. It's just crazy !

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  2. #2
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    Google "Lautenberg Amendment".

    Check out this document, particularly the section titled Elements of the Offense.

    http://www.peaceathomeshelter.org/DV...lautenberg.pdf

    This just looks at the federal angle. VA state law may have more to say.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  3. #3
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    According to this map: http://www.opencarry.org/age.html
    18 is the age.

    This map: http://www.opencarry.org/privatetransfers.html
    also suggests that private sales are allowed in Virginia.

  4. #4
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    NavyLT wrote:
    concerned1nva wrote:
    Ok, I have been reading these posts, and I have some questions I need answered.

    I have a step-son who is 19, has been convicted two times with-in the last five years of assault and battery on a family member, has been ordered and completed outpatient drug and anger managment classes. CAN HE LEGALLY OPENLY CARRY, POSSESS OR OWN A HANGUN IN THE STATE OF VIRGINIA? Even if it is given as a gift, no money to transfer hands? Also, how old does he have to be to LEGALLY purchase a handgun in Virginia? TO ME, for someone like him to be able to legally purchase, carry, or own a handgun is asking for something to happen. OR, any firearm for that fact. It's just crazy !

    [line]

    Does not sound like he is able to legally possess or purchase or otherwise receive ANY firearm to me, let alone carry one.
    I believe NavyLT nailed it.

    Federal law causes DV offenders to be prohibited persons. It is against the law for him to possess a firearm. In fact, IIRC, the relevant statute makes it an offense to knowingly transfer a firearm (by gift, loan, sale, etc) to a prohibited person.

    As far as the DV charge, that would need to be wiped clean where it was charged/convicted to restore his Rights.

    Relevant Statute: US CODE: Title 18,922
    Relevancy in (g)9 re your stepson, relevancy in (d)9 re others.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  5. #5
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    Come on, guys. Click on the link that Citizen so helpfully provided.

    You will see that the DV statute excludes minorsassaulting adults, at least according to the attorney who wrote the .pdf at the link.

    Also, don't forget, this might be an anti-gunner trying to be provocative. Or a fence sitter trying to find ways to deny someone their right to possess the means to self-defense. We have know way of knowing if we are getting an alarmist report containing skewed information.

    I think the smart thing is to just direct them to the statutes. Nobody can legitimately demand more.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  6. #6
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    concerned1nva wrote:
    Ok, I have been reading these posts, and I have some questions I need answered.

    I have a step-son who is 19, has been convicted two times with-in the last five years of assault and battery on a family member, has been ordered and completed outpatient drug and anger managment classes. CAN HE LEGALLY OPENLY CARRY, POSSESS OR OWN A HANGUN IN THE STATE OF VIRGINIA? Even if it is given as a gift, no money to transfer hands? Also, how old does he have to be to LEGALLY purchase a handgun in Virginia? TO ME, for someone like him to be able to legally purchase, carry, or own a handgun is asking for something to happen. OR, any firearm for that fact. It's just crazy !

    [line]

    I think a responsible and caringposition for you as a step-dad is to keep that boy away from any guns at allif you possibly can.

    And if you see him walking around with one, drop a dime on him. Let the LEOs sort it out.

    You let that kid operate anywhere with a gun and you'll be sorry. Guns aren't for persons like him.

  7. #7
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    concerned1nva wrote:
    a step-son who...has been ordered and completed outpatient drug and anger managment classes.
    What? They didn't 'take?' What would be the point of ordering these if he could complete them, but still be a threat to himself or others?

    (this is sarcasm for those not sensitized to it)

  8. #8
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    Citizen wrote:
    Come on, guys. Click on the link that Citizen so helpfully provided.

    You will see that the DV statute excludes minorsassaulting adults, at least according to the attorney who wrote the .pdf at the link.

    Also, don't forget, this might be an anti-gunner trying to be provocative. Or a fence sitter trying to find ways to deny someone their right to possess the means to self-defense. We have know way of knowing if we are getting an alarmist report containing skewed information.

    I think the smart thing is to just direct them to the statutes. Nobody can legitimately demand more.
    With him being 19, and having two convictions in the past 5 years, it is quite likely that at least one of those was not as a minor.



    NOTE: I did direct him to the relevant statutes.

    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  9. #9
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    I wonder if they redefine a gun in these cases? Those antiques that aren't
    a gun for the rest of us, would they be one for a can't have individual?

    Can an individual on a private boat violate international no guns on ship laws,
    if they OC 2 miles out?

    At least he can still vote, so exercise that right to get the crooks out, and
    then redress your officials. Of course we were told in AL that it is a crime
    and would be arrested if we redressed our Gov. So much for republicans
    being for law and order, both parties are corrupt.




  10. #10
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    One of the words associated with firearms ownership is 'responsible.' The young man has not matured into a responsible adult yet, the instances of violence are much too recent. Providing him with a firearm could not be considered 'responsible' either.



  11. #11
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    wrightme wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    ...

    You will see that the DV statute excludes minorsassaulting adults,
    at least according to the attorney who wrote the .pdf at the link.

    ...
    With him being 19, and having two convictions in the past 5 years, it is quite likely that at least one of those was not as a minor.
    I agree with wrightme.

    Citizen is just spinning the point about minor assaults. He just mentions it, then presumes that it will be a valid argument. If called on it, as wrightme has done, ole Citizen Spinner can say: "Well, I didn't actually say that the subject was a minor for all his DV assaults!"

    Citizen just doesn't want to take a position on the OP's question. It would hurt his brain too much to actually say that anyone, even a 19-year jabrone as described in the OP, should be denied a firearm or even encouraged to forego openly carrying one. So, Citizen Spinner takes the "safe" way out.

    Such "safety" is ill-considered. Reference the recent case of Anty506, another 19 year old who was encouraged to openly carry a gun. With results very negative to the OC community and gun carriers in general.

  12. #12
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    Forum,

    I refrained from taking a position forseveral reasons.

    The attorney-written document I linked says the law does not apply to minors assaulting adults. This combined with the imprecision in the OP about the age and dates of the assaults makes it impossible toconclude whether the assaults were done as a minor. Were both committed as a minor? Was one? Were neither committed as an adult? Were any committed on a brother or sister as an adult (not DV offenses according to the attorney's summary)? We don't know.

    My antennae were raised by that first post, almost alarmist in nature. The OPer is not checking to see if it is legal before the OPer gifts a gun. It is not the carrier himself asking for advice on how to get mom, dad, or grandpa to gift a gun with that history. It is not a stepparent worried their stepson might get arrested as a prohibited possessor. This is a very unusual post and it is a first post.

    Who is the OPer opposing? Is it stepmom who wants to persuade dad not to gift a gun?Stepdad againstuncle?Is the OP, in their opposition and seeking to persuade someone else on something they are alarmed about, skewing the information?

    Is it an anti-gunner looking for knee-jerk responses?

    I judged the best bet would be to give the OPer a thread to follow and find certainty for themselves.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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