How do you measure 1000 ft?

KS_to_CA · Jul 25, 2009

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How do you measure 1000 ft?

If you are standing in the middle of the street, and the street perpendicular to where you are standing has a school in the middle of it, do you measure:

1. from point A (you) to point B (school) in a straight line like in a map, crossing houses, lawn, and other barriers where you cannot normally walk through?

or

2. from point A (you) to point C (intersection) then to point B (school), arguably the more natural, reasonable and practical way to reach the school if you are going to walk?

Any precedent case? Any opinion from LEOs here?

619P95 · Jul 26, 2009

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IANAL but one would believe that it is a 1000ft radius around the perimeter of the school property lines. So any point along the property line you go 1000ft from the school in any direction that is the area that 626.9 covers.

edit: Including ANY part of the school property itself

CA_Libertarian · Jul 26, 2009

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Agreed, it's "as the crow flies", even if that crosses barriers that you can't.

bigtoe416 · Jul 26, 2009

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One thing I've wondered about regarding the 1000' measurement is if we should take elevation changes into consideration. I would argue that we should, because the wording of the law says, "within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds."

Say we couldn't carry firearms with locked containers through a school zone, and say you were transporting a firearm on a plane, and the plane flew through a school zone (but at 35,000 feet in the air), would you be the school zone? I think we can all agree that you would not.

But taking that logic a step further, one could say that while I may be 950 feet from a school zone, that since the elevation change is 350 feet from my position to the school that I am not in the school zone since when you calculate the hypotenuse of the distance you can see that:

950^2 + 350^2 = X^2
X^2 = 1025000
X = 1012.4

As we can see, I'm a good 12.4 feet outside of the school zone.

While I wouldn't bother using this logic when determining if I could go to a certain place (I'd rather err on the side of the typical horizontal only calculation), I would bring this up as a defense if I were to be prosecuted and there was significant elevation change present.

nukechaser · Jul 26, 2009

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In keeping with the "as the crow flies"... I wonder how many general aviation pilots, while taking off or on landing/approach dip below 1,000 ft and enter into the "bubble" of 1,000 ft of a school?

If so, are there pilots who transport firearms who violate 626.9 every day?

I'd be willing to bet it happens!

stuckinchico · Jul 26, 2009

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This is just me personally because there are alot of impassible objects that local pd can get around to measure and they don't have the funding ( or the brains) to pull out a tool that will help them.

The law says you must reasonably know... so if you honestly believed that you were 1000 ft and turns out you are 5 ft short, it wouldn't be something that I sweat

honestly as I walk around, I have ran in to 3 schools that are not even listed and had to retreat.

Prosecutors must prove that you knew beyond a reasonable doubt that you were in violation. That is a hard ting to do if you are well prepared

stuckinchico · Jul 26, 2009

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bigtoe416 wrote:

Say we couldn't carry firearms with locked containers through a school zone, and say you were transporting a firearm on a plane, and the plane flew through a school zone (but at 35,000 feet in the air), would you be the school zone? I think we can all agree that you would not

Wait what is there a new law that I am missing about locked containers?????

bigtoe416 · Jul 26, 2009

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stuckinchico wrote:

bigtoe416 wrote:

Say we couldn't carry firearms with locked containers through a school zone, and say you were transporting a firearm on a plane, and the plane flew through a school zone (but at 35,000 feet in the air), would you be the school zone? I think we can all agree that you would not

Click to expand...

Wait what is there a new law that I am missing about locked containers?????

You can carry firearms through school zones in a locked container. I was merely presenting a hypothetical situation where you couldn't because I understand the current school zone revision law being tossed around up in Sacramento might restrict the ability to carry a handgun through a school zone even if it is locked.

stuckinchico · Jul 27, 2009

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Whew good luck with that one as I can see that it would interfere with interstate commerce

CA_Libertarian · Jul 27, 2009

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bigtoe416 wrote:

One thing I've wondered about regarding the 1000' measurement is if we should take elevation changes into consideration. I would argue that we should, because the wording of the law says, "within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds."

Say we couldn't carry firearms with locked containers through a school zone, and say you were transporting a firearm on a plane, and the plane flew through a school zone (but at 35,000 feet in the air), would you be the school zone? I think we can all agree that you would not.

But taking that logic a step further, one could say that while I may be 950 feet from a school zone, that since the elevation change is 350 feet from my position to the school that I am not in the school zone since when you calculate the hypotenuse of the distance you can see that:

950^2 + 350^2 = X^2
X^2 = 1025000
X = 1012.4

As we can see, I'm a good 12.4 feet outside of the school zone.

While I wouldn't bother using this logic when determining if I could go to a certain place (I'd rather err on the side of the typical horizontal only calculation), I would bring this up as a defense if I were to be prosecuted and there was significant elevation change present.

Correct.

Keep in mind that the arresting officer will bring out his measuring device and roll it on the ground to calculate the distance. If part of that distance lies on a steep slope, then that will account for the change in altitude.

Now, I'm curious how the officers measure "as the crow flies". In some cases, it would be as simple as measuring along Streets A & B, then finding the hypotenuse. But it could get difficult if the streets are winding. (I was never good at geometry, so perhaps there is an easy way to do this.)

CA_Libertarian · Jul 27, 2009

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bigtoe416 wrote:

I understand the current school zone revision law being tossed around up in Sacramento might restrict the ability to carry a handgun through a school zone even if it is locked.

If it passes, it will make it FAR easier to challenge the statute. What if you live in a school zone before the law passes, then want to move? You would have no legal way to remove your firearms from your home.

Let's hope our legislators are dumb enough to make it that easy for us!

bigtoe416 · Jul 27, 2009

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CA_Libertarian wrote:

bigtoe416 wrote:

I understand the current school zone revision law being tossed around up in Sacramento might restrict the ability to carry a handgun through a school zone even if it is locked.

Click to expand...

If it passes, it will make it FAR easier to challenge the statute. What if you live in a school zone before the law passes, then want to move? You would have no legal way to remove your firearms from your home.

Let's hope our legislators are dumb enough to make it that easy for us!

That's actually the situation I would be in. I guess I could always apply for a CCW in San Francisco with my good cause being that I need to move out of my apartment. Except, how could I do my training for the CCW since I'm guessing I would need to actually have the firearm during the training.

Makes you wonder how much of a brain some of those state representatives have.

Bull Frog · Jul 30, 2009

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KS_to_CA wrote:

How do you measure 1000 ft?

If you are standing in the middle of the street, and the street perpendicular to where you are standing has a school in the middle of it, do you measure:

1. from point A (you) to point B (school) in a straight line like in a map, crossing houses, lawn, and other barriers where you cannot normally walk through?

or

2. from point A (you) to point C (intersection) then to point B (school), arguably the more natural, reasonable and practical way to reach the school if you are going to walk?

Any precedent case? Any opinion from LEOs here?

I enjoyed the responses to your query. I think the restriction is ridiculous, and should be the first target our glorious California legislators should repeal with all possible haste.

Bull Frog

PT111 · Jul 31, 2009

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Survey measurements do not take elevation into account but measure level distances. If you buy an acre of land on a hillside you actually get more than one acre of land. As for the 1,000' for a school no prosecutor is going to handle a case about you being 995' from the school but if you are 100' and try to pull the around the corner and four houses down then take a left stuff it isn't going to fly.

mjones · Jul 31, 2009

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PT111 wrote:

As for the 1,000' for a school no prosecutor is going to handle a case about you being 995' from the school ...

I wish the DA prosecuting Theseus thought that way!

Bull Frog · Aug 4, 2009

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What about a range finder? I vote at a school just up the street, but I don't have a clue about how far away it is. Are there not optics to measure range? Having to so is stupid. The 1000 foot rule (from schools)is also stupid, but what is one to do?

Our legislators, once again, made fools of them selfs. Will the 1000 foot rule deter sick students from bringing firearms to school?

No, it will prohibit law abiding citizens from stopping stupid students shooting there classmates. Sorry, but I was way too far away to prevent this tragedy. It's the law, you know. California law prohibits law abiding citizens to carry firearms within 1000 feet of a school, which meanscriminals can pretty much do what they want on school grounds.

They are your children, taxpayers. What do you think?

stuckinchico · Aug 4, 2009

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A range finder is what I use when Im scoping out.

Streetbikerr6 · Aug 4, 2009

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Yah I used my built in rangefinder on my riflescope except everytime I checked out a school the cops got called for some reason. Jk haha.. use google maps or mapquest, they have a line on the bottom left hand side of the screen that shows how long a thousand feet is, I draw around the school of a thousand feet and stay away.

KylaGWolf · Aug 10, 2009

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stuckinchico wrote:

bigtoe416 wrote:

Say we couldn't carry firearms with locked containers through a school zone, and say you were transporting a firearm on a plane, and the plane flew through a school zone (but at 35,000 feet in the air), would you be the school zone? I think we can all agree that you would not

Click to expand...

Wait what is there a new law that I am missing about locked containers?????

Um yep when they are extending the new school zone they removed the locked container clause so it would even be illegal with your gun in a locked container

stuckinchico · Aug 12, 2009

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however i believe tht interferes with interstate commerce and isnt that illegal?

How do you measure 1000 ft?

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