Monthly UOC Meetup in SoCal

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I've noticed that the UOC meet and greets in SoCal are not conducted on a regular basis. So to that effect, I would like to propose a regular monthly UOC meet at the same time and same place every month tobring regularityof the movement to those interested in OC and the public alike. And in so doing, hopefully to grow our numbers of active UOC'ers throughout the southland to bring about positive...change we can believe in. (sorry couldn't resist)

I propose a monthly UOC meetup at the Victoria Gardens Bass Pro Shop in Rancho Cucamonga. Say for example the first Friday of every month (or whatever). What better place? Bass Pro Shops have voiced positive policies regarding OC and they have tons of merchandise to look at, and they have a pretty good restaurant too.They are also large enough to accommodate hopefully large numbers of us. While not necessarily central, at least everyone is driving the same distance from LA, Orange or San Diego areas. One word of caution however, this location has at least two schools within 1000'. So care would need to be taken to only UOC while inside the business' walls. I wouldn't chance walking out in the parking lot without a locked firearm.

So please consider my proposal and comment. I am open to suggestion on alternate locations and times, etc. But the main goal is to organize into a more regular activity for our benefit and the public's.

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I think regular meets are a good idea for two major reasons:

1. Easier to plan, easier for people to remember to show up.

2. Get more people involved, and give more opportunities for non-OCers to be exposed to OC.

However, I would suggest a different venue, also for two reasons:

1. School zones. Until we have some case law on the subject, I would NOT open carry in a school zone. As Thesues has shared with us, his trial judge has decided "private property" does not include any place open to the public.

2. Exposure. Open Carrying in a Bass Pro is not going to expose our cause to many people "on the fence". We would be preaching to the proverbial choir (though that choir certainly needs to be preached at too).

I suggest a venue that will expose the participants to a different variety of people, and especially a venue not in a school zone.

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I would definitely be up for a meet at either Bass Pro or Victoria Gardens.

If Google Earth's ruler is accurate, and measuring from the nearest portion of fencing on the school properties, the Bass Pro building itself and the eastern 2/3 of the parking lot are outside of the 1000' zones from the two schools. Victoria Gardens itself is mostly outside of the zone as well, as long as one were to stay in the main block bordered by N and S Main Streets. I think Victoria Gardens proper would be a better place to OC, and looking at the Rancho Cucamonga muni code there is no prohibition against carrying for adults. VG has public streets and sidewalks so I don't see how you could get trespassed from the property.

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A couple of extra thoughts I've had since posting last night.

626.9 Issue:Even though it can't be proven, Iwould be extremely surprised if every gun purchased there leaves the store in a locked container. Imagine all those new gun owners commiting horrendous felonies the moment they step out of the store with their shiny new hardware. I know this is anecdotal, but nonetheless somewhat interesting to ponder.

Brandishing:regarding brandishing,how to go from a locked container to your holster while in the store without brandishing? Answer: Restroom, transition your hardware from a locked case to your holster while in a locked stall.

I know this isn't necessarily ideal, but it is a thought in progress. Looking forward to your comments.

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Timeframe? Mid-August?

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They wouldn't be committing any crime by simply walking out of the building. The school directly east across the freeway is way out of the 1000 ft exclusion zone. The one to the S-SW across the freeway only covers the SW quarter of the parking lot. I seriously doubt anyone could prove you knew that you were in a school zone that extends across a freeway. Last time I was at Bass Pro some guy was walking to his car with a broken open OU shotgun over his shoulder, and nobody seemed to notice or care.

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wewd wrote:

They wouldn't be committing any crime by simply walking out of the building. The school directly east across the freeway is way out of the 1000 ft exclusion zone. The one to the S-SW across the freeway only covers the SW quarter of the parking lot. I seriously doubt anyone could prove you knew that you were in a school zone that extends across a freeway. Last time I was at Bass Pro some guy was walking to his car with a broken open OU shotgun over his shoulder, and nobody seemed to notice or care.

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Just to verify regarding the school due east across the freeway. I just went to google maps and looked at the satellite image. It sure looks like the school property borders the freeway.Or is the field to the west of theschool not school property? If not school property then BPS bldg is free and clear of the school zone, just stay out of the sw parking lot. Even better.

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I thought the same as you did about the field but I checked another mapping site with a more up to date image and the school appears to only occupy the eastern half of that field area. I will have to drive by the property myself to check for sure but I am 99% positive.

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I contacted the BPS in Rancho Cucamonga by phone and spoke with one of their managers. We had a very cordial discussion at length regarding open carry in their store. This is a synopsis of our conversation. He indicated to me that their store policy is to have every firearm that enters the store to be secured by their greeter with one of their own locking devices. He said there is a sign to that effect posted at the entrance of their store. Further, they would not allow individuals open carrying firearms on their hips in their store due to the fact that they have unsecured ammunition on the store shelves. I went on to ask about all BPS stores across the country and whether or not they all had unsecured ammunition in the stores. He said yes, they all have unsecured ammunition.



I discussed with him the open carry movement, as he was unfamiliar with it, and also mentioned the opencarry.org website and was sure to tell him this was posted on the home page of the site. I told him about Mr. Larry L. Whiteley’s, Bass Pro’s Communication Manager, comments to opencarry.org regarding their policy to respect lawful customer gun carry in their stores across the US. He indicated to me he was taking notes and would discuss this with the store’s general manager and they would get back to me. He is unaware of who Larry Whiteley is as he didn't really know anyone from corporate.



So for now, they will not allow open carry in their store. I will continue to have this conversation with them and see if they are open to change and/or have some level of internal discussion on a corporate level regarding policy.

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coolusername2007 wrote:

Brandishing:regarding brandishing,how to go from a locked container to your holster while in the store without brandishing? Answer: Restroom, transition your hardware from a locked case to your holster while in a locked stall.

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Brandishing is not a concern when transitioning. This concept comes from LE, gun shop FUD-spreaders, and especially from CCW instructors.

The FUD I usually hear is that "if I'm carrying concealed, and my shirt slips and my gun becomes exposed, I could be charged with brandishing." (To my chagrin, this FUD was repeated at one Madison Society meeting by a well-respected member - who I won't name since he may not appreciate my announcing he has a CCW permit.)

I'm open to considering any case law on this subject, but so far I haven't seen any presented by any of the people making the claim.

So, let's just look at what the statute actually says:

417(a)(2):

Every person who, except in self-defense, in the presence of any other person, draws or exhibits any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded, in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, or who in any manner, unlawfully uses a firearm in any fight or quarrel is punishable as follows: ...

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The key words in this statute are, "in a rude, angry, or threatening manner." Note that your firearm is being "exhibited" while in it's holster, not only when in your hands.

Of course, the jury will be the ones to determine if your drawing/exhibiting was done in a rude, angry, or threatening manner. But I can't imagine it would be easy to say it is rude, angry, or threatening to simply holster/unholster your weapon as part of obeying state school zone laws.

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CA_Libertarian thanks for the excellent post and education!

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Quick question I thought the school zone only applied to the school not property. Why I am saying that is because the Unified school district up here owns alot of property that never sees the lil kiddies and I am not going to go extra out of my way to avoid a dirt lot that no one uses. I start the 100o ft right where that school ends

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stuckinchico wrote:

Quick question I thought the school zone only applied to the school not property. Why I am saying that is because the Unified school district up here owns alot of property that never sees the lil kiddies and I am not going to go extra out of my way to avoid a dirt lot that no one uses. I start the 100o ft right where that school ends

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it applies to the property - if the property is used for the education of K to 12 children. So, empty property, or Admin-Only property wouldn't apply.

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I agree with CA-Libertarian. While Bass Pro and Victoria Gardens offer us a venue for our purpose, it does little for those who are sitting on the fence, a lot less for those who are on the other side of the fence.

While it is a good idea to get together and preach to the choir, I would like to think that doing this in a place where there are more exposure to those on the other side, the media, the curious, and other onlookers will do a lot more to our cause.

One, in time, it will help de-sensitize those who are opposed to the idea of gun ownership. It would be a great victory when some staunch anti would one day say, "Oh, it's not that bad after all", or "I realized it's not like I thought it was".

Two, there will more chance that the people who would actually come and ask for information are those who either don't have it and just curious, or more importantly, those who are thinking, considering, and is about ready, to cross to our side.

Not to undermine anybody, but in this fight for "recognition and better understanding" of the 2A right and the gun owners as a group, I would rather sit on the table and convert one anti and help him/her buy his/her first gun, than have ten avid gun owners sharing a corndog with.

My 0.02.

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KS_to_CA wrote:

I agree with CA-Libertarian. While Bass Pro and Victoria Gardens offer us a venue for our purpose, it does little for those who are sitting on the fence, a lot less for those who are on the other side of the fence.

While it is a good idea to get together and preach to the choir, I would like to think that doing this in a place where there are more exposure to those on the other side, the media, the curious, and other onlookers will do a lot more to our cause.

One, in time, it will help de-sensitize those who are opposed to the idea of gun ownership. It would be a great victory when some staunch anti would one day say, "Oh, it's not that bad after all", or "I realized it's not like I thought it was".

Two, there will more chance that the people who would actually come and ask for information are those who either don't have it and just curious, or more importantly, those who are thinking, considering, and is about ready, to cross to our side.

Not to undermine anybody, but in this fight for "recognition and better understanding" of the 2A right and the gun owners as a group, I would rather sit on the table and convert one anti and help him/her buy his/her first gun, than have ten avid gun owners sharing a corndog with.

My 0.02.

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I agree with the premise of not preaching to the choir. However, from what I can tell our choir isquite small, at least here is SoCal. Again, from what I can tell, our numbers haven't grown enough within our own ranks to begin to go out and de-sensitize the masses. So the idea of a BPS monthly meetup is to build credibility within our own ranks and once our actual practicing UOC'er numbers have grown sufficiently then we can work on the masses.Again, we don't even have a regular, monthly event anywhere in the southlandin which to build a sufficient base. The occasional 2-3 people showing up for lunch somewhere is just going to be considered some fringe group and will not gain any real traction. And the periodic large showing in SD is local, not regional. On the otherhand, a large 50+ or 100+ active, organized, monthly group will have better odds at recognition, credibility, and success.

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I would definitely be up for a meet at either Bass Pro or Victoria Gardens. Please keep me informed..

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CA_Libertarian wrote:

Note that your firearm is being "exhibited" while in it's holster, not only when in your hands.

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Is there case law stating this definition of "exhibit?" There isn't a definition in the penal code as far as I know.

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bigtoe416 wrote:

CA_Libertarian wrote:

Note that your firearm is being "exhibited" while in it's holster, not only when in your hands.

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Is there case law stating this definition of "exhibit?" There isn't a definition in the penal code as far as I know.

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When a term is used in the Penal Code and not defined, I believe the rule is that the common use of the word prevails as the definition.

ex⋅hib⋅it  /igˈzɪb ɪt/ –verb (used with object)
1. to offer or expose to view; present for inspection: to exhibit the latest models of cars.
2. to manifest or display: to exhibit anger; to exhibit interest.
3. to place on show: to exhibit paintings.
4. to make manifest; explain.
5. Law. to submit (a document, object, etc.) in evidence in a court of law.
6. Medicine/Medical Obsolete. to administer (something) as a remedy.
–verb (used without object)
7. to make or give an exhibition; present something to public view.
–noun
8. an act or instance of exhibiting; exhibition.
9. something that is exhibited.
10. an object or a collection of objects shown in an exhibition, fair, etc.
11. Law. a document or object exhibited in court and referred to and identified in written evidence.

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coolusername2007 wrote:

I contacted the BPS in Rancho Cucamonga by phone and spoke with one of their managers. We had a very cordial discussion at length regarding open carry in their store. This is a synopsis of our conversation. He indicated to me that their store policy is to have every firearm that enters the store to be secured by their greeter with one of their own locking devices. He said there is a sign to that effect posted at the entrance of their store.

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I go into that BPS periodically.That's where I bought my Glock. I think I remember seeing a sign at the entrance. (Turner's Outdoorsman has a similar sign.) But it is curious that all BPS do not have the same Corporate policy across the US. I think I would be interested in a meet up in the Inland Empire area. Just keepthe propertyout of any school zone - parking lot included.

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mjones wrote:

stuckinchico wrote:

Quick question I thought the school zone only applied to the school not property. Why I am saying that is because the Unified school district up here owns alot of property that never sees the lil kiddies and I am not going to go extra out of my way to avoid a dirt lot that no one uses. I start the 100o ft right where that school ends

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it applies to the property - if the property is used for the education of K to 12 children. So, empty property, or Admin-Only property wouldn't apply.

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Ok, so here's a potentially dumb question...what about during summer when school is out? Or for that matter, any other time that school is out such as weekends, springs breaks, etc. I'm sure I won't like the answer, but just had to ask. :banghead: