OC in Restaurants in Montana

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Yes, you can. As long as at least one of those criteria are done in another room, you can legally carry concealed without any repercussions. It's a tight subject to find your way around, but after many conversations with the Montana Attorney General's office, they've told me that one can do so legally unless something is said by one of the establishment's employees. But then if you're carrying concealed in an effective manner, they shouldn't know anyways.

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40 you have been in Applebes here in Kalispell right? I have CC there, in my normal half and half way. would you agree that its a place that OC would be the proper way to carrythere?



Coon Dog !! Thats Funny!

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I would continue to do so in the same way you've always done it. I could see how it might be considered kind of borderline but it's hardly ever noticed anyways!

Thought you might like that email!!

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Thanks 40

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Anytime Laramie!!

I'm usually a fountain of useless knowledge but every once in a while, I can come up with something that proves to be useful to someone!!

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I appreciated it. Still not tried OC'ing here around the Helena area. I usually just eat at places I know I can carry, but on Sundays the family likes to get together at Chilis. I figured since the bar was in a separate room, this might be ok.

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Laramie wrote:

So just to understand, say Chilis, where they serve alcohol at the bar, but the restaurant is separated by a glass wall/partition, would I be able to conceal carry in the restaurant side? Or is this too gray of an area?

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The answer to your question is NO. In other words or more words, NO you cannot legally "conceal carry" in this bar or the restuarant side.

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You "may" if the owner or manager does not object "open carry" in the bar and restuartant, if they say NO then you must depart.

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Call the AG of MT Office, Call the Law Firm on the MSSA web site, and Call MSSA.

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If not a member of MSSA then join. All Montana Citizens and all other USA Citizens should be members of MSSA if they travel through Montana. My entire family - men, women, and kids are LIFE members of MSSA. Montana would not the where it is today without MSSA and there is still much more work to do.

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40s-and-wfan wrote:

Yes, you can. As long as at least one of those criteria are done in another room, you can legally carry concealed without any repercussions. It's a tight subject to find your way around, but after many conversations with the Montana Attorney General's office, they've told me that one can do so legally unless something is said by one of the establishment's employees. But then if you're carrying concealed in an effective manner, they shouldn't know anyways.

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Didn't know if I made this part as legible as the rest of it. Just wanted to make sure it was noticeable now.

I've already had several conversations with the Attorney General here in Montana. He stated (as I've said before) that all three criteria: sold, dispensed and consumed, have to be done in the same room to prevent concealed carry in such a place. If only two are done then that does not prohibit concealed carry. Trust me, I may be young and not know as many cops or something like that, but I do know what I'm talking about. The people at the Attorney General's office almost know me by the sound of my voice due to the fact that I've called them so many times over stuff like this!!

Ask people like MT GUNNY about some of my calls. He, JB in Montana and myself are constantly throwing back and forth different pieces of wisdom about stuff like this. I've also had it confirmed to me by very knowledgeable police officers. If the A.G. here tells me it's okay, then it's okay!!

It is legal in the state of Montana to OC in a bar and CC in just about any other type of establishment, as long as there's not a sign prohibiting it! Again, all three criteria have to be met in the same room for it to be prohibited!! I make it a very dedicated passion of mine to know these things within the borders of my own state.

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Nickle Charlies in the Evergreen allows OC, as myself and another friend and I have done. No contact by employee's or customer complaints. I think, they have a feeling of relief being that they have been robbed before while customers were in eating and or drinking and gambling.

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Has the MT AG issued an opinion on this question ?

If so ? Is the MT AG opinionposted on the MT AG web site as is other MT AG opinions ?

If a case of this nature went to court, do you think this thread of postings or even if the individuals posting on this threadtestified in court saying the MT AG said this and that, would stand up in the court of law and you would be found not guilty ? Are you willing to be the test case with a disagressing Chief of Police, Sheriff, and/or County Attorney based on this thread postings ?

As another MT Citizen posted the MT Carbon County Sheriffand another individual I know says the same about MT Yellowstone County Sheriff, "concealed carry" not legal in the bar area or any other portion of the establishment but "open carry" is allowed anywhere as long as the owner or manager does not object.

This needs to be fixed in Montana law, hopefully to the extend of other State's, where concealed and open carry is legal nearly everywhere including public buildings, bars, etc - the next opportunity is in 2011, the main objectors will be MT AG and the Montana Sheriff and PeaceOfficer Association, same as they were against HB 228 - where they falsely claimthe streets of MT would be rivers of blood, it wasagainst federal law to carry inbanks (which is not federal law but state law), etc .... they are also the biggest block against the 2A in Montana, such as carry in public buildings and on trains (Montana law does not allow carry on trains even though Congress just passed a law where carry on AMTRAK is allowed - MT AG has yet to issue an opinion on this and best guess he will not and Montana have to wait until 2011 for the state wide reps to take action)

Note: Not all Sheriffs and Peace Officers are anti - 2A but many are. Some say they support the 2A but when you listen to them speak, it is their opinion they are mouthing and not the words of the 2A.

Maybe someone will contact the MT AG and request a written opinion / letter on the question of this thread ? then post the MT AG written opinion or letter on this link. Since the MT AG has beenalready made a defacto decision on this matter and does not object then a MT AG written opinion posting should be a piece of cake to get.

I look forward to seeing and reading this MT AG opinion. Charge forthinto battle !!!

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I will be in Montana in June and I'd like a answer to that as well.
CC means no carry into places where alcohol is served?
OC means yes you can carry? but no drinking while eating your hamburger?

It's a bit different here in Texas. No OC but I can CC and eat, drink and not be in violation. No bars. Do NOT get intoxicated!

I want to be compliant on my visit to Montana.

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I had a very nice telephone chat with Mr. C. Mark Fowler Assistant Attorney General
Office of the Montana Attorney General
He was very nice and explained to me the Montana law. No carry at all where alcohol is served .
I didn't expect a call direct, but it was sure nice. We plan for a possible lunch when I get to Helena in June. I like Montana already!


:celebrate

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I would confirm that you CANNOT carry concealed in a restaurant connected in any way to a bar.

I emailed the Montana Attorney General on this and the response was any restaurant within a building that also houses a place where alcohol is sold, dispensed and consumed prohibits concealed carry.

I was told the whole building - and no matter how separate the establishments - concealed carry would be prohibited. Open carry is not prohibited, though I was told bar operators could ask you to check your weapon in at the door.

Going out to eat? Open carry.

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Emmeric wrote:

I would confirm that you CANNOT carry concealed in a restaurant connected in any way to a bar.

I emailed the Montana Attorney General on this and the response was any restaurant within a building that also houses a place where alcohol is sold, dispensed and consumed prohibits concealed carry.

I was told the whole building - and no matter how separate the establishments - concealed carry would be prohibited. Open carry is not prohibited, though I was told bar operators could ask you to check your weapon in at the door.

Going out to eat? Open carry.

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Correct. Open Carry IF the owner or establishment allows.
I want to thank all here for the advice and wanted to let you know that I am now a card carrying member of the Montana Shooting Sports Association.
We look forward to visiting your state and enjoying our vacation.

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Emmeric wrote:

I would confirm that you CANNOT carry concealed in a restaurant connected in any way to a bar.

I emailed the Montana Attorney General on this and the response was any restaurant within a building that also houses a place where alcohol is sold, dispensed and consumed prohibits concealed carry.

I was told the whole building - and no matter how separate the establishments - concealed carry would be prohibited. Open carry is not prohibited, though I was told bar operators could ask you to check your weapon in at the door.

Going out to eat? Open carry.

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Not completely true!!
CC is legal in restaurants in the state of Montana if a few conditions apply. You cannot carry concealed if alcohol is sold, dispensed and consumed in the same room. If you are in a restaurant where the bar is in a separate room from the dining room, you're fine. OC is legal in a bar, unless you are asked to leave. I don't OC very often when I eat. Other times, I OC quite a bit.
Talk to a gentleman by the name of C. Mark Fowler at the Attorney General's office. He and I have had quite a few, extensive conversations regarding this whole subject and he has clarified several things like this for me.

Emmeric, by your translation here you're saying that even if it's a strip-mall and there's a DQ on one end of the mall as well as a small bar on the other, one cannot carry concealed in the restaurant because they are both within a building that contains a place where alcohol is sold, dispensed and consumed! That makes no sense at all!!

If you carry concealed, feel free to do it in a restaurant, as long as the bar and the dining room are not in the same room. If they are in the same room with nothing separating them, don't carry concealed. Open carry!! If it's like Famous Dave's was in Kalispell (before it burned down), and the rooms are separated it's completely legal and can be done without a worry!! I've done it a million times and after consulting with Mr. Fowler, feel even more comfortable doing so again and again!

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Well, I didn't say I agreed with it or that it made sense; I am only repeating a specific question I asked of the assistant attorney general (Jennifer Anders in 2008).

We have several restaurants here in Butte with clearly separate bars located in the same building. I mentioned that off-hand and she replied that even though separate, a bar housed in the same building applies the prohibition to CC to the entire building, not just the bar area.

Perhaps she was misinformed. Certainly, your example of a mall would apply to her logic and I admit it stretches the boundaries of reason.

Being that I prefer to now OC rather than CC, I don't find it an issue. But knowing just a separation constitutes the real division and not inclusive of the entire building would be comforting. Mr Fowler is someone knowledgeable enough at the AG's office to override Ms Anders?

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I've talked with Mr. Fowler on several occasions and exchanged phone calls quite often on subjects like this! I don't doubt his knowledge or his input one bit!! He's always been pleasant with me and always gotten an answer for me, even if it's taken a couple of days and required him calling me back!!

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Is there anyone near Bozeman who'd like to go get coffee or lunch and test the OC climate here? I'd like to, but being new to this state I would feel much more comfortable having a "local" with me. Of course, I can open carry in my purse here, but I'd like to try it using a holster.

Anyone?

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TWG2A wrote:

Is there anyone near Bozeman who'd like to go get coffee or lunch and test the OC climate here? I'd like to, but being new to this state I would feel much more comfortable having a "local" with me. Of course, I can open carry in my purse here, but I'd like to try it using a holster.

Anyone?

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Well, if we lived in Bozeman...

I know Bozeman has become a preppy town, but you can "test" the waters by being seen carrying.

Fill up at the gas station. Shop at the grocery store. Go to Walmart. The Walmart here in Butte doesn't bat an eyelash at my open carry .45.

Once you feel comfortable yourself, you'll find most Montanans here only glance twice to see what kind of gun you're carrying. The most reaction you get is from out-of-state college kids.

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Thank You. I will. I'll post results here later.