In Gubernatorial Race, It's About Who's More Pro-Gun

imported post

Here are some fleshed out answers.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/virginiapolitics/2009/07/more_on_guns_and_gubs.html

More on Guns and Gubs Just when you thought you knew everything about guns and gubernatorial candidates Robert F. McDonnell (R) and state Sen. Creigh Deeds (D), we offer, courtesy of both campaigns, a few more bullet points.
As part of Monday's story on guns and the gubernatorial campaign, we asked the candidates where they stood on several gun related issues besides the so-called gun show loophole.
Campaign answers are after the jump.

1. GUNS IN BARS: Should people who have permits to carry concealed handguns be allowed to carry firearms in a restaurant that serves alcohol?
Creigh Deeds: Yes, provided the gun owners do not consume alcohol while carrying their weapons
Bob McDonnell: Yes, provided the gun owners do not consume alcohol while carrying their weapons

2. GUNS ON CAMPUS: Should there be laws guaranteeing the right of eligible gun owners to carry their weapons on the grounds of universities and colleges, potentially overruling local decisions by the institutions' governing bodies?
Creigh Deeds: No
Bob McDonnell: "The law should be reviewed to find ways to strengthen the security of students and faculty."
3. ONE GUN-A-MONTH: Should Virginia repeal the 1993 law limiting people to buying no more than one handgun a month?
Creigh Deeds: Yes
Bob McDonnell: Yes. "Since the passage of of the one-gun-amonth law in the early 1990s, several key things have changed. First, the instant background check process has been greatly improved. The scope of the search is broader, and includes more criminal offenses from other states as well as other disqualifications such as mental health prohibition. In addition, the process has been speeded up considerably. Second, laws prohibiting straw purchases have been improved as well. Thus, the primary concerns that existed over 15 years ago have been diminished today due to positive legislative changes, many of which Bob McDonnell has played an important role in crafting and moving forward."
4. CARRYING GUNS ACROSS STATE LINES/Thune Amendment: Should Virginia honor the concealed carry permits issued by other states?
Creigh Deeds: Yes, for states whose requirements for concealed carry permits are similiar to Virginia's
Bob McDonnell: Yes
5. GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE: Should all private firearms transactions at gun shows to be subject to a background check?
Creigh Deeds: Yes
Bob McDonnell: No
-Freddy Kunkle

imported post

The Donkey wrote:

In this case, the older sin is the more profound one:

"One gun a month" is a an actual and profoundlimitation on private gun sales.

Deeds' "gun show loophole" reform adds a bureaucratic requirement to a truly minuscule percentage of gun sales, (my guess is like 1 in 3000)and would not prevent any sales that most gun owners actually would care to make.

I fault both candidates because I find their reasoning -- or what passes for it --flawedon these issues. But yes: both candidates fundamentally are pro gun, and there is nothing here that would cause me to change my vote either way.

Click to expand...

That is BS Donkey

Past sins are bad enough, but maybe McDonnell is a reformed sinner. What we know is that Creeds is telling us that he will keep on sinning. He is clearly not reformed. If private sales continue when the "gun show loophole" law is passed, will Cree Deeds sign a "private sale loophole" law?

1) Cree Deeds is pushing a law that will clearly and unambiguously make gun collecting a crimein the Commonwealth of Virginia.

2) Cree Deeds would make the 18-20 year old that buys a handgun at a gun show a criminal, as well as the person that sells the gun to him or her.

Personal Property rights are not minuscule or bureaucratic. They arethe foundation ofcommon law. Cree Deeds apparently doesn't get it.

I'm just not sure if I can cross the isle from conservative to republican and vote for McDonnell. I usually just vote Libertatrian.

imported post

The Donkey wrote:

There were computerized background checks when McDonnell voted for one gun a month.

What "other advances" is he talking about?

The only thing that has advanced is McDonnell's political career.

Click to expand...

The other advances would include:

(1) The tightened rules for obtaining a VA driver's license implemented after 9/11 that made it far more difficult for anyone ranging from a terrorist wanting a US state-issued IDtomore freely travel about the country (e.g., boarding planes)to a a northeastern gun runner wanting an ID showing apparent residency in VA to enable him to falsely present himself as a VA resident to easily buy multiple guns to illegally take home; and

(2) The 30-day freeze on dealer gun purchases after obtaining a new VA driver's license or ID (which I believe was enacted about the same time as or shortly after one-gun-a-month) that, taken together with the post-9/11 driver's license security reforms, also impedes illegal gun runners who use a fraudulently-obtained VA DL or ID card to acquire their guns.

imported post

Thundar wrote:

The Donkey wrote:


That is BS Donkey

Past sins are bad enough, but maybe McDonnell is a reformed sinner. What we know is that Creeds is telling us that he will keep on sinning. He is clearly not reformed. If private sales continue when the "gun show loophole" law is passed, will Cree Deeds sign a "private sale loophole" law?

1) Cree Deeds is pushing a law that will clearly and unambiguously make gun collecting a crimein the Commonwealth of Virginia.

2) Cree Deeds would make the 18-20 year old that buys a handgun at a gun show a criminal, as well as the person that sells the gun to him or her.

Personal Property rights are not minuscule or bureaucratic. They arethe foundation ofcommon law. Cree Deeds apparently doesn't get it.

I'm just not sure if I can cross the isle from conservative to republican and vote for McDonnell. I usually just vote Libertatrian.

Click to expand...

The last election exposed the flaw of rejecting both major candidates. Voting for a candidate who has no chance of being elected is the same as giving your least favorite a free, uncontested vote.

I understand voting your mind, but a vote is a terrible thing to waste.

Yata hey

imported post

Grapeshot wrote:

Thundar wrote:

The Donkey wrote:


That is BS Donkey

Past sins are bad enough, but maybe McDonnell is a reformed sinner. What we know is that Creeds is telling us that he will keep on sinning. He is clearly not reformed. If private sales continue when the "gun show loophole" law is passed, will Cree Deeds sign a "private sale loophole" law?

1) Cree Deeds is pushing a law that will clearly and unambiguously make gun collecting a crimein the Commonwealth of Virginia.

2) Cree Deeds would make the 18-20 year old that buys a handgun at a gun show a criminal, as well as the person that sells the gun to him or her.

Personal Property rights are not minuscule or bureaucratic. They arethe foundation ofcommon law. Cree Deeds apparently doesn't get it.

I'm just not sure if I can cross the isle from conservative to republican and vote for McDonnell. I usually just vote Libertatrian.

Click to expand...

The last election exposed the flaw of rejecting both major candidates. Voting for a candidate who has no chance of being elected is the same as giving your least favorite a free, uncontested vote.

I understand voting your mind, but a vote is a terrible thing to waste.

Yata hey

Click to expand...

I do consider both major candidates. The Libertarian Party candidate and the Constitution Party Candidate.

imported post

Thundar wrote:

I do consider both major candidates. The Libertarian Party candidate and the Constitution Party Candidate.

Click to expand...

Has a libertarian or constitution party candidate everwon a statewide election?

Has either group won a federal election for office i.e. Senate or House of representatives?

In virginia do we have members of either of these parties serving in the General Assembly?

I'm asking because i'd like to know not to cause an argument.

imported post

Thundar wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

Thundar wrote:

The Donkey wrote:


That is BS Donkey

Past sins are bad enough, but maybe McDonnell is a reformed sinner. What we know is that Creeds is telling us that he will keep on sinning. He is clearly not reformed. If private sales continue when the "gun show loophole" law is passed, will Cree Deeds sign a "private sale loophole" law?

1) Cree Deeds is pushing a law that will clearly and unambiguously make gun collecting a crimein the Commonwealth of Virginia.

2) Cree Deeds would make the 18-20 year old that buys a handgun at a gun show a criminal, as well as the person that sells the gun to him or her.

Personal Property rights are not minuscule or bureaucratic. They arethe foundation ofcommon law. Cree Deeds apparently doesn't get it.

I'm just not sure if I can cross the isle from conservative to republican and vote for McDonnell. I usually just vote Libertatrian.

Click to expand...

The last election exposed the flaw of rejecting both major candidates. Voting for a candidate who has no chance of being elected is the same as giving your least favorite a free, uncontested vote.

I understand voting your mind, but a vote is a terrible thing to waste.

Yata hey

Click to expand...

I do consider both major candidates. The Libertarian Party candidate and the Constitution Party Candidate.

Click to expand...

Like it or not, these are not major candidates. Grapeshot is right, voting your mind is idealistic and often (always) backfires!

imported post

Thundar wrote:

Past sins are bad enough, but maybe McDonnell is a reformed sinner. What we know is that Creeds is telling us that he will keep on sinning. He is clearly not reformed. If private sales continue when the "gun show loophole" law is passed, will Cree Deeds sign a "private sale loophole" law?

1) Cree Deeds is pushing a law that will clearly and unambiguously make gun collecting a crimein the Commonwealth of Virginia.

2) Cree Deeds would make the 18-20 year old that buys a handgun at a gun show a criminal, as well as the person that sells the gun to him or her.

Personal Property rights are not minuscule or bureaucratic. They arethe foundation ofcommon law. Cree Deeds apparently doesn't get it.

I'm just not sure if I can cross the isle from conservative to republican and vote for McDonnell. I usually just vote Libertarian.

Click to expand...

This editorial is from today's Times-Dispatch:

No Good, Deeds:

Gubernatorial candidate Creigh Deeds has a plan for improving transportation in Virginia. Here it is: Build consensus.

He doesn't say what the content of the consensus should be. He just thinks there should be consensus. Whatever the General Assembly decides, apparently, is fine with him.

...

Deeds' opponent, Bob McDonnell, has produced a laundry list of proposals for addressing transportation. You might not like them, but at least you know what they are.

We don't see how Deeds can expect Virginians to elect him governor if he won't say what he intends to do with the office.

Click to expand...

That, I think, is the real Creigh Deeds. A man with no public plan. I'm sure he has an agenda for transportation -- and for gun control, too. But he intends to keep his real agenda under wraps. If he revealed his new, Progressive ideology, he would lose votes. Well, he can't have it both ways.

Besides, I suppose his notion of gun-control "consensus" is reaching some accord with both the NRA and the so-called "VT Families" -- no thanks.

imported post

McDonnell's "plan" raids the education budget, and would cut offa source of long term funding by privatizing ABC stores. It has been rejected before, and doesn't stand a chance in the legislature.

Deeds probably would get behind a proposal that would increase gas/diesel taxes. Something like this has almost passed before. But saying you back greater taxes of any kind in Virginia doesn't sell well.

Neither one of them is being completely forthcomming. I suspect that neither one of them is too anxious to get lost in the weeds of a gun control debate either.

imported post

The Donkey wrote:

I suspect that neither one of them is too anxious to get lost in the weeds of a gun control debate either.

Click to expand...

Well, it appears that you don't want to get lost in the weeds of a gun control debate. It would appear that's why you're bringing up taxes, education and alcohol instead of talking about gun policy.

~ Boyd

imported post

Chaingun81 wrote:

Thundar wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

Thundar wrote:

The Donkey wrote:


That is BS Donkey

Past sins are bad enough, but maybe McDonnell is a reformed sinner. What we know is that Creeds is telling us that he will keep on sinning. He is clearly not reformed. If private sales continue when the "gun show loophole" law is passed, will Cree Deeds sign a "private sale loophole" law?

1) Cree Deeds is pushing a law that will clearly and unambiguously make gun collecting a crimein the Commonwealth of Virginia.

2) Cree Deeds would make the 18-20 year old that buys a handgun at a gun show a criminal, as well as the person that sells the gun to him or her.

Personal Property rights are not minuscule or bureaucratic. They arethe foundation ofcommon law. Cree Deeds apparently doesn't get it.

I'm just not sure if I can cross the isle from conservative to republican and vote for McDonnell. I usually just vote Libertatrian.

Click to expand...

The last election exposed the flaw of rejecting both major candidates. Voting for a candidate who has no chance of being elected is the same as giving your least favorite a free, uncontested vote.

I understand voting your mind, but a vote is a terrible thing to waste.

Yata hey

Click to expand...

I do consider both major candidates. The Libertarian Party candidate and the Constitution Party Candidate.

Click to expand...

Like it or not, these are not major candidates. Grapeshot is right, voting your mind is idealistic and often (always) backfires!

Click to expand...

And until people get over the "throwing your vote away" mindset, we will once again be stuck with Obama v. McCain - two idiots.

imported post

TexasNative wrote:

The Donkey wrote:

I suspect that neither one of them is too anxious to get lost in the weeds of a gun control debate either.

Click to expand...

Well, it appears that you don't want to get lost in the weeds of a gun control debate. It would appear that's why you're bringing up taxes, education and alcohol instead of talking about gun policy.

~ Boyd

Click to expand...

Me? :what:I'm always happy to talk about guns.

I would submit that both candidates are pro-gun, but imperfectly so, and both have flaws in their 2A reasoning. Both candidate's REASONING bothers me more than their positions.

I am going to cast my vote on issues other than gun issues.

imported post

And I don't have to go beyond gun policies to make it an easy decision.

~ Boyd

imported post

Really? Doesn't it bother you that in backing away from his one gun a month vote McDonnell cites changed circumstances? It means that in slightly different circumstances McDonnell still believes that one gun a month would be justified.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that he changed his mind. But I think that it was politics that did it, not policy. And if politics can change it one way, then it can change it another.

imported post

I reserve the right to be smarter today than I was yesterday. There's no reason not to extend that same right to Mr McDonnell.

~ Boyd

imported post

Fair enough, if the man claimed that he learned something that changedhis mind.

But McDonnell SAYS that he is just as smart/stupid as he was yesterday.

He says that there have been "advances" without which he would still vote for OGAM.

Sounds to me like hestill thinks it was"responsible gun control" -- or claims it was.

That is my problem with McDonnell's reasoning.

imported post

In any event the executive branch in Va. does not enact laws . Last time I checked that was still up to the GA.

I just want a Governor with a smart pen.

Yata hey

imported post

it's nice to live in a state where the politicians have to argue about who is the most pro-gun. I open carried at the Tom Gear event in Hampton. no problems. Open carried while hanging around with Ken Cuccinelli at the picnic. no problems. This just wouldn't happen in a lot of states.