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Thread: Another open carry event in California

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Looks like the advent of UOC in California has grown beyond both OCDO and CGDN. This appears to be the first published event that was not coordinated with or at either website.

    I think the "hold your horses" crowd over at Calgunsis going to be very frustrated with the prospect of numerous cellular groups like this popping up across the state, either not aware of the moratorium on UOC or not heeding it.
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    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
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    Hey! I sent Schwilk the email that learned him about OCDO.

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    ConditionThree wrote:
    Looks like the advent of UOC in California has grown beyond both OCDO and CGDN. This appears to be the first published event that was not coordinated with or at either website.

    I think the "hold your horses" crowd over at Calgunsis going to be very frustrated with the prospect of numerous cellular groups like this popping up across the state, either not aware of the moratorium on UOC or not heeding it.

    A couple of days ago, Iread about PullnShoot asking bigger UOC'er groups and new Lone Wolf UOC'ers to "stand down" until August 31st on CalGuns.

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...51&page=14

    But I still have a hard time understanding the whys?
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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Sons of Liberty wrote:
    ConditionThree wrote:
    Looks like the advent of UOC in California has grown beyond both OCDO and CGDN. This appears to be the first published event that was not coordinated with or at either website.

    I think the "hold your horses" crowd over at Calgunsis going to be very frustrated with the prospect of numerous cellular groups like this popping up across the state, either not aware of the moratorium on UOC or not heeding it.

    A couple of days ago, Iread about PullnShoot asking bigger UOC'er groups and new Lone Wolf UOC'ers to "stand down" until August 31st on CalGuns.

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...51&page=14

    But I still have a hard time understanding the whys?
    There are many who believe that UOC will attract enough negative attention that it will instigate a legislative response. This assertion usually follows a well publicized event.This is paired with warnings that our 2A has not been secured and thatactivists should pause until thecurrent legislative session is over. So far, this has happened two sessions running.

    In this case, it was the San Diego Readers front page article (that has garnered nationwide attention through various blogs)that has spurred a Calguns moratorium. How Calguns intends to discourage this activity outside its sphere of influence is unclear. I think the UOC movement in Californiahas already jumped that fire line and will continue to expand without regard to their wishes to stand down.

    Since this is the case, I think it is probably better to continue to provide the guidance and education to these splinter groups than to minimizereal or percieved legislatve threats by attempting to ground activists and ask them to fly under the radar.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    I sent Gene a pm last week where I agreed that UOC was putting the cart before the horseBUT since that cart was rolling down hill...

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    AyatollahGondola wrote:
    Hey! I sent Schwilk the email that learned him about OCDO.
    Drop him another email asking for a little love! I would have jumped to join them. I go to that beach and shopping center all the time.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    coolusername2007 wrote:
    AyatollahGondola wrote:
    Hey! I sent Schwilk the email that learned him about OCDO.
    Drop him another email asking for a little love! I would have jumped to join them. I go to that beach and shopping center all the time.
    We've had a falling out since then, but I'm expecting him to come crawling back. You should be able to email him at :

    http://www.sandiegominutemen.com/site/index.php

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    cato wrote:
    I sent Gene a pm last week where I agreed that UOC was putting the cart before the horseBUT since that cart was rolling down hill...
    I don't think I agree with that analogy. It indicates that the movement is out of control and hazardous.

    CalGuns Foundation doesn't hold the horse market monopoly. Just because we're not using their horses doesn't mean we don't have any.
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    Moved to "Stand Down?!" as it is off-topic here.

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    Here is the basic deal with Calguns.

    They agree that LOC is most likely, when ruled on, the Constitutional right guaranteed by the Right to Keep and Bear.

    The problem is they fear that if we get LOC the state will get rid of CCW.

    They might have some legitimate gripe, but there is no evidence this will happen. Our belief is that once we get LOC we can use that to fight and bargain for shall-issue CCW. . . Calguns does not believe that would be the outcome. But as Calguns is backed by the NRA and the NRA's money they are just about the only ones that determine what the fight in CA is.

    And when they talk about OC, they are really talking about the lone-wolf OC. The risk with this is that they don't have the time and energy to defend individuals, especially for OC. They have the right to choose what happens to their money.

    Unless we can raise that kind of money and influence there is little we can do about it.



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    I have a serious question... What's with the "Hold Your Horses" Crowd at the other sites? Who are they? Do they have an "agenda" with the end result of UOC'ers being ineffective and not an influence on Public awareness?

    I don't believe that holding signs or sitting still are beneficial at all to our rights.

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    SomeGuyInCali wrote:
    I have a serious question... What's with the "Hold Your Horses" Crowd at the other sites? Who are they? Do they have an "agenda" with the end result of UOC'ers being ineffective and not an influence on Public awareness?

    I don't believe that holding signs or sitting still are beneficial at all to our rights.
    The guys over at CalGuns.net are not holding signs or sitting still.

    They are pushing forward with lawsuits and they are indeed having success.

    It is just that their focus is slightly different than the average Open Carry advocate, and they don't mind arguing for their perspective.

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    Decoligny wrote:
    The¬* guys over at CalGuns.net are not holding signs or sitting still.
    Well in effect, some of the guys over there are, coming up with nothing constructive or productive, opting to hurl insults 24/7. I'm sure the Bradys :celebrate that garbage, if they aren't directly responsible.

    ... two steps back.

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    Theseus wrote:
    Here is the basic deal with Calguns.

    They agree that LOC is most likely, when ruled on, the Constitutional right guaranteed by the Right to Keep and Bear.

    The problem is they fear that if we get LOC the state will get rid of CCW.
    BINGO!

    They want their permission slips. If we decriminalize loaded open carry, it takes away some of their ammo in the fight for CCWs.

    As is, they can go to court and say, "look, there's no other legal way to exercise my 2A rights due to tons of restrictions on open carry."

    THIS is what it all comes down to. They need the anti carry laws in place to get CCW reform. They value a permit - which requires a tax and test - more than the right to carry like a free individual.

    Unfortunately, I think that's the general consensus among 'gun rights' advocates. And I don't think there's much we can do about it.
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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    Theseus wrote:
    Here is the basic deal with Calguns.

    They agree that LOC is most likely, when ruled on,¬* the Constitutional right guaranteed by the Right to Keep and Bear.

    The problem is they fear that if we get LOC the state will get rid of CCW.
    BINGO!

    They want their permission slips. If we decriminalize loaded open carry, it takes away some of their ammo in the fight for CCWs.

    As is, they can go to court and say, "look, there's no other legal way to exercise my 2A rights due to tons of restrictions on open carry."

    THIS is what it all comes down to. They need the anti carry laws in place to get CCW reform. They value a permit - which requires a tax and test - more than the right to carry like a free individual.

    Unfortunately, I think that's the general consensus among 'gun rights' advocates. And I don't think there's much we can do about it.
    Right now it seems more like an attempt at reverse psychology - the more they say don't do it, the more people will?

    One would think they would just leave UOCers alone, if they really believe the consequences will be further restriction of OC, up until an effective ban in all populated areas, if not statewide, is passed.

    THEN, they can say the only legal way to bear left is CCW and the right should be permit-less, free from taxation, and exempt from arbitrary criminal-safety zones.

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    This is why.

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...;postcount=132

    I see the merit to both sides. Unfortunately, OC is not for everyone and CC is undeniably the most convenient in terms of current societal standards. I will continue challenging those standards via OC but TBH, I wouldn't mind having a Makarov in SOB or OTB to go with my OC'd Tracker or Hi Power.

    Carry on.

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    I would argue it is against societal standard to wear chokingly hot cover garments that completely conceal the CCW (no printing, no flapping up, nada) when it is about 70 degrees or above (when I start wearing shorts and short shirts).

    Taking it to an extreme, I'd hate to have to wear a trenchcoat or bulky jacket in the middle of summer if CGF neglects to sue away the penalties for imperfect concealment. Considering there are practically 2 climates in SoCal, overcast/rainy/cold and pleasant/breezy/hot, the latter dominating every year, CCW would not be convenient. Though maybe that's flipped up in NorCal, so CCW actually is convenient up there.

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    As stated above though, they say they are looking to help us fight for LOC after they get their shall-issue CCW.

    You have to understand that regardless of what we do LOC will be the right and CCW will be a priviledge. The SCOTUS will likely rule that way when asked and that is what we should expect.

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    The only way I think any of this movement will work correctly is if we continue to fight. The more WE fight, the more people that aren't leaders like us are going to join in; they see that we are doing it and gaining momentum, so they join in feeling "safe" that they can do so...

    Calguns wants to play the legislatorsand politicians game. Rightnow all these legislators and politicians are playing this stupid game where they think they can make all the laws by themselves and none of us are included anymore. It's ridiculous, it's unconstitutional, it's wrong. If they want to do that, tell them to go to a different country because that is not how this country opperates.

    I think with as many communist people are in these political positions, the only way to win this fight is for us to get everyone we can on our side pushing with us. Hmmm sounds kind of like a revolution doesn't it? Which is exactly what it needs to be. This country has gone WAY too far off track from what it is supposed to be. The only way to get it back on track is with force.

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    jrwalker wrote:
    The only way I think any of this movement will work correctly is if we continue to fight. The more WE fight, the more people that aren't leaders like us are going to join in; they see that we are doing it and gaining momentum, so they join in feeling "safe" that they can do so...

    Calguns wants to play the legislatorsand politicians game. Rightnow all these legislators and politicians are playing this stupid game where they think they can make all the laws by themselves and none of us are included anymore. It's ridiculous, it's unconstitutional, it's wrong. If they want to do that, tell them to go to a different country because that is not how this country opperates.

    I think with as many communist people are in these political positions, the only way to win this fight is for us to get everyone we can on our side pushing with us. Hmmm sounds kind of like a revolution doesn't it? Which is exactly what it needs to be. This country has gone WAY too far off track from what it is supposed to be. The only way to get it back on track is with force.
    We need to have incorporation before we can really go balls out. Your enthusiasm is not unwarranted nor unwanted and there will be a revolution of sorts, just not the gung-ho charge of the light brigade kind. Calguns has done many important things for RKBA in CA and we have many bright minds working on the solution to the problem.

    Sit tight, we are working on this shite



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    pullnshoot25 wrote:
    We need to have incorporation before we can really go balls out. Your enthusiasm is not unwarranted nor unwanted and there will be a revolution of sorts, just not the gung-ho charge of the light brigade kind.
    What we really needed was people to go into law enforcement 20-30 years ago, stealthily gaining political power, get appointed to sheriff, then turn and take all the evidence they've gathered and arrest the traitors and bribe-takers en masse.

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    N6ATF wrote:
    pullnshoot25 wrote:
    We need to have incorporation before we can really go balls out. Your enthusiasm is not unwarranted nor unwanted and there will be a revolution of sorts, just not the gung-ho charge of the light brigade kind.
    Nationwide incorporation, I think you mean. Since we're incorp'ed in the 9th.

    What we really needed was people to go into law enforcement 20-30 years ago, stealthily gaining political power, get appointed to sheriff, then turn and take all the evidence they've gathered and arrest the traitors and bribe-takers en masse.
    Not anymore

    http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...0715763ebo.pdf

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    Decoligny wrote:
    N6ATF wrote:
    pullnshoot25 wrote:
    We need to have incorporation before we can really go balls out. Your enthusiasm is not unwarranted nor unwanted and there will be a revolution of sorts, just not the gung-ho charge of the light brigade kind.
    Nationwide incorporation, I think you mean. Since we're incorp'ed in the 9th.

    What we really needed was people to go into law enforcement 20-30 years ago, stealthily gaining political power, get appointed to sheriff, then turn and take all the evidence they've gathered and arrest the traitors and bribe-takers en masse.
    Not anymore

    http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...0715763ebo.pdf
    What the hell? That's wasn't, and still isn't on http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/enbanc/v..._id=0000000037

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Well that certainly puts a damper in my step. Hopefully they'll get it right again, or maybe even better the second time around. Though, I'm not holding my breath.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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