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Another open carry event in California

pullnshoot25

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jrwalker wrote:
The only way I think any of this movement will work correctly is if we continue to fight. The more WE fight, the more people that aren't leaders like us are going to join in; they see that we are doing it and gaining momentum, so they join in feeling "safe" that they can do so...

Calguns wants to play the legislatorsand politicians game. Rightnow all these legislators and politicians are playing this stupid game where they think they can make all the laws by themselves and none of us are included anymore. It's ridiculous, it's unconstitutional, it's wrong. If they want to do that, tell them to go to a different country because that is not how this country opperates.

I think with as many communist people are in these political positions, the only way to win this fight is for us to get everyone we can on our side pushing with us. Hmmm sounds kind of like a revolution doesn't it? Which is exactly what it needs to be. This country has gone WAY too far off track from what it is supposed to be. The only way to get it back on track is with force.
We need to have incorporation before we can really go balls out. Your enthusiasm is not unwarranted nor unwanted and there will be a revolution of sorts, just not the gung-ho charge of the light brigade kind. Calguns has done many important things for RKBA in CA and we have many bright minds working on the solution to the problem.

Sit tight, we are working on this shite :)
 

N6ATF

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pullnshoot25 wrote:
We need to have incorporation before we can really go balls out. Your enthusiasm is not unwarranted nor unwanted and there will be a revolution of sorts, just not the gung-ho charge of the light brigade kind.

What we really needed was people to go into law enforcement 20-30 years ago, stealthily gaining political power, get appointed to sheriff, then turn and take all the evidence they've gathered and arrest the traitors and bribe-takers en masse.
 

Decoligny

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N6ATF wrote:
pullnshoot25 wrote:
We need to have incorporation before we can really go balls out. Your enthusiasm is not unwarranted nor unwanted and there will be a revolution of sorts, just not the gung-ho charge of the light brigade kind.

Nationwide incorporation, I think you mean. Since we're incorp'ed in the 9th.

What we really needed was people to go into law enforcement 20-30 years ago, stealthily gaining political power, get appointed to sheriff, then turn and take all the evidence they've gathered and arrest the traitors and bribe-takers en masse.

Not anymore

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2009/07/29/0715763ebo.pdf
 

N6ATF

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Decoligny wrote:
N6ATF wrote:
pullnshoot25 wrote:
We need to have incorporation before we can really go balls out. Your enthusiasm is not unwarranted nor unwanted and there will be a revolution of sorts, just not the gung-ho charge of the light brigade kind.

Nationwide incorporation, I think you mean. Since we're incorp'ed in the 9th.

What we really needed was people to go into law enforcement 20-30 years ago, stealthily gaining political power, get appointed to sheriff, then turn and take all the evidence they've gathered and arrest the traitors and bribe-takers en masse.

Not anymore

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2009/07/29/0715763ebo.pdf

What the hell? That's wasn't, and still isn't on http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/enbanc/view.php?pk_id=0000000037
 

Decoligny

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N6ATF wrote:
Decoligny wrote:
N6ATF wrote:
pullnshoot25 wrote:
We need to have incorporation before we can really go balls out. Your enthusiasm is not unwarranted nor unwanted and there will be a revolution of sorts, just not the gung-ho charge of the light brigade kind.

Nationwide incorporation, I think you mean. Since we're incorp'ed in the 9th.

What we really needed was people to go into law enforcement 20-30 years ago, stealthily gaining political power, get appointed to sheriff, then turn and take all the evidence they've gathered and arrest the traitors and bribe-takers en masse.

Not anymore

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2009/07/29/0715763ebo.pdf

What the hell? That's wasn't, and still isn't on http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/enbanc/view.php?pk_id=0000000037
It looks like your link takes you to the 20 July page. Or at least they haven't updated that page since the 20th.
 

N6ATF

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Decoligny wrote:
N6ATF wrote:
Decoligny wrote:
N6ATF wrote:
pullnshoot25 wrote:
We need to have incorporation before we can really go balls out. Your enthusiasm is not unwarranted nor unwanted and there will be a revolution of sorts, just not the gung-ho charge of the light brigade kind.

Nationwide incorporation, I think you mean. Since we're incorp'ed in the 9th.

What we really needed was people to go into law enforcement 20-30 years ago, stealthily gaining political power, get appointed to sheriff, then turn and take all the evidence they've gathered and arrest the traitors and bribe-takers en masse.

Not anymore

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2009/07/29/0715763ebo.pdf

What the hell? That's wasn't, and still isn't on http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/enbanc/view.php?pk_id=0000000037
It looks like your link takes you to the 20 July page. Or at least they haven't updated that page since the 20th.

I clicked on the panel on the left side of http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/
Case Information>Pending En Banc Cases
 

CA_Libertarian

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N6ATF wrote:
...

Taking it to an extreme, I'd hate to have to wear a trenchcoat or bulky jacket in the middle of summer if CGF neglects to sue away the penalties for imperfect concealment...
What are the penalties for "imperfect concealment"? I've never heard this term before.

If you're referring to legal penalties, I would appreciate a citation to PC or case law. I can't tell you how many times I've heard a CCW holder opine that they are 'brandishing' if their firearm isn't concealed. I have yet to ever see any proof that is true.
 

N6ATF

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CA_Libertarian wrote:
N6ATF wrote:
...

Taking it to an extreme, I'd hate to have to wear a trenchcoat or bulky jacket in the middle of summer if CGF neglects to sue away the penalties for imperfect concealment...
What are the penalties for "imperfect concealment"? I've never heard this term before.

If you're referring to legal penalties, I would appreciate a citation to PC or case law. I can't tell you how many times I've heard a CCW holder opine that they are 'brandishing' if their firearm isn't concealed. I have yet to ever see any proof that is true.

I'm not referring to that.

http://www.opencarry.org/tx.html
Texas is not a traditional open carry state. They also do not allow open carry, or even printing, by those who have a concealed carry permit.

Had to try to find for myself a cite for this assertion, closest I could find easily was Texas PC 46.035.

If CA is forced into shall-issue CCW, I would expect the legislature to start with, then go far beyond the TX penal code to infringe/regulate CCW into uselessness.
 

marshaul

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CA_Libertarian wrote:
Theseus wrote:
Here is the basic deal with Calguns.

They agree that LOC is most likely, when ruled on,  the Constitutional right guaranteed by the Right to Keep and Bear.

The problem is they fear that if we get LOC the state will get rid of CCW.
BINGO!

They want their permission slips. If we decriminalize loaded open carry, it takes away some of their ammo in the fight for CCWs.

As is, they can go to court and say, "look, there's no other legal way to exercise my 2A rights due to tons of restrictions on open carry."

THIS is what it all comes down to. They need the anti carry laws in place to get CCW reform. They value a permit - which requires a tax and test - more than the right to carry like a free individual.

Unfortunately, I think that's the general consensus among 'gun rights' advocates. And I don't think there's much we can do about it.
I'm afraid I agree.

I'd also like to express my disgust with the here-described mentality: disgust expressed.
 

TatankaGap

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Geez Louize, reading this thread reminds me of that time I visited East Berlin in the mid
80s ~ it's the sound of an oppressed people.

That's going to change. No one knows exactly how or when. People experienced with CA politics (in which group I do not include myself) have a good point when they say that the CA politicians are insane when it comes to gun laws and will go out of their way to pass some Constitutionally defective law that some or all Californians and visitors to CA will have to deal with -

My personal opinion and approach is to OC when I deem appropriate - which includes all times when required for self-defense (bears & tweekers are known to inhabit the mountains) - 99% of the time when I OC there is no one else around to witness the event :dude:
 

flintlock tom

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THIS is what it all comes down to. They (referring to CalGuns folk) need the anti carry laws in place to get CCW reform. They value a permit - which requires a tax and test - more than the right to carry like a free individual.
I don't believe this is the case. If they truly wanted "anti-carry laws in place" they would not be trying to discourage open carry.
Their concern is that the open carry movement might promulgate more stringent open carry laws.
That seems to be just the opposite of what you're suggesting.
 

cato

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I think for the "greater good" the CGF/SAF's Alan Gura lawsuit, "Sykes", is the right first step as concealed carry is the preferred choice even in the "Free" States. And if Sykes succeeds then shall issue ccw followed by LOC will get most everyone what they want.

The other way round might not netCCW and allow LOC to be a mooted right when heavily restricted by private property owners.

We do not want Texas or Wisconsin and since we won't get Vermont/Alaska we will aim for Arizona/Nevada/Oregon (which are like the majority of states).

The concern with UOC, sans a clear right to carry, is that once the sac bear is poked more laws will be thrown up like so much chaff to keep our 2nd A. missiles off target until we get around to fighting those laws in court (which takes time + $$$$$$). And in the intervening time before some form of"bear" is court protected we may loose LUCC, and trunk gunsfor the law abiding.

You don't have to agree with our detractors, realize many of them DO believe that LOC is part of the right, but don't dismiss their reasoning and advice summarily.


artwork by oleg volk:
 

cato

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CA_Libertarian wrote:
cato wrote:
I sent Gene a pm last week where I agreed that UOC was putting the cart before the horseBUT since that cart was rolling down hill... :)
I don't think I agree with that analogy. It indicates that the movement is out of control and hazardous.


Not quite the analogy I was trying to convey but I can see that it reads that way.

"Rolling down hill"was just meant to indicate I don't think I can be effectively stopped at this point by any of us. But we should continue to stress "SMART" UOC; groups, recorders, know the law and where you are, etc..., for those determined to do it.

But Bill's prophesy is not far from the mark sadly IMO; some UOCer may well get shot, and more may well get pinched for 626.9 (rightfully or wrongfully) before we really have the tools to strike down bad laws and stop new ones with injunctions liberating OCers to Carry On.

Know the risks and stay safe!

Let's pray for that the 9th's en banc re-hearing of Nordykeand SCOTUS quickly resolve the issues before them in favor of the Right to Self Defense and possession of Arms for that purpose.
 

marshaul

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cato wrote:
You don't have to agree with our detractors, realize many of them DO believe that LOC is part of the right, but don't dismiss their reasoning and advice summarily.
Good advice.

In my case, I have dismissed their reasoning after careful review and consideration.
 

cato

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marshaul wrote:
cato wrote:
You don't have to agree with our detractors, realize many of them DO believe that LOC is part of the right, but don't dismiss their reasoning and advice summarily.
Good advice.

In my case, I have dismissed their reasoning after careful review and consideration.
Touche! :lol:
 
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