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Thread: Re: Castle Doctrine Law

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    Does the castle doctrine law apply to daylight hours as well as night time hours? I had to defend my property today by discharging my 'Judge' three times at two individuals that were attempting to steal my pipe top trailer loaded with a new used refrigerator on it right out of my front yard this afternoon backed up to my front door. They had cut the lock and had it actually hitched to their truck when I caught them in the act. I was in my house when I discharged my firearm through the glass portal in the door. I'm a aging disabled veteran and the two guys were 30'ish and with muscular builds so I wanted to avoid physical contact if at all posible.

    I gave the two perps a verbal warningthat I would use deadly force if they did not cease and leaveandthey chose to ignore me until I started shooting after the drivernearest meflipped me off. It was their lucky day it would appearas the Judge was only loaded with #7 1/2 bird shot as that is what I usually keep init to kill the occasional snake on my property in and around my garden. The guy was about 35' away on the first shot, about 45-50' on the second and about 60-65' on the third. Three quick shots while he was on the run to his and in his truck headed down the driveway.

    Police were called and at first they wanted to confiscate my handgun per the officers supervisor advisory via radio. I said whoa, that I was within my rigts to protect myself and my property and after a verbal tussle between the officer and his supervisorthe superrelented and the officer only kept the spent casings as evidence of the shootingand returned my handgun to me.

    So, my question again is, am I covered by the castle doctrine as this happened during daylight hours (5:15pm)andall on my property. I suspect that I am as they did not attempt to arrest me.The driver I suspect thoughis nursing some bird shot rash to the side of his head and right side of his face tonight. I did nearly suffer a stroke about a half hour after the incident as the situation was settling in on me. I'm fine now after being checked out. What a scare.

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    From my reading of it, you're covered. You feared for your property and had the right to keep it from being stolen. I could be wrong, but I think you're in the good.

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    gutshot wrote:
    The use of deadly force to protect property alone is not justified in most states.
    But I do believe it is in Texas. I could be wrong and that is why I'm asking the question. The two investigating officers from two differentjurisdictions were sympathetic to my situationand didn't seem anxious to pursue any charges against me. The county supervisor who at first wanted my gun confiscated seemed to be a bit more understanding once the officer in the field explained in detail the events that transpired, at least it sounded that way from myside of hearing the two talk via radio. I just hope that this is the end of it.

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    From my understanding of the law is perfectly legal to use deadly force in Texas to protect your property, day or night. Also, the police have no authority to disarm you while you are on property that you own or in control of. Did they escape with the trailer and fridge?
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
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    No. He was hooking up the chains and light plug-in when I finally got his attention. He shot me the bird and I in turnshot him some shotgun pellets. The look on his face was of utter horror when I opened up on him. He stooped down andpicked the trailer up and dropped it with the fridge loaded up front on it. He was so arrogant as long as he thought I wouldn't step out but very quickly changed though. I would imagine he needed some new drawers afterword's. He nearly flipped his truck making the turn out onto the street.

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    You know, the Texas Penal Code is actually pretty easy to read. See PC 9.42 (and 9.41, since it's referenced).


    [code]

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    Lone Star Veteran Gator5713's Avatar
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    First: IANAL

    That said, I am fairly certain that you are most assuredly covered! I believe the Texas law actually even allows for chase and retrieval! I have read it many times over looking for different pieces, but it has been a while since I read it all through and thus don't remember it all.

    Next time, use 000 Buck! Less chance of retaliation!

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    Gator5713 wrote:
    First: IANAL

    That said, I am fairly certain that you are most assuredly covered! I believe the Texas law actually even allows for chase and retrieval! I have read it many times over looking for different pieces, but it has been a while since I read it all through and thus don't remember it all.

    Next time, use 000 Buck! Less chance of retaliation!
    I reloaded it with mag rifled slugs. I may even change itto .45LC

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Castle Doctrine only applies to someone in your dwelling--NOT on your property. Other laws may give you the right to use deadly force to protect your property--never against simple trespass, however. But the Castle Doc is ONLY for someone within your home. I'm not familiar with TX law, but would guess you have the right to protect your property. As far as you knew, they may have been armed. If so, you have the right to use deadly force as the threat has escalated to fear of death or grievous bodily harm.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Lone Star Veteran Gator5713's Avatar
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    Gunslinger wrote:
    Castle Doctrine only applies to someone in your dwelling--NOT on your property. Other laws may give you the right to use deadly force to protect your property--never against simple trespass, however. But the Castle Doc is ONLY for someone within your home. I'm not familiar with TX law, but would guess you have the right to protect your property. As far as you knew, they may have been armed. If so, you have the right to use deadly force as the threat has escalated to fear of death or grievous bodily harm.
    In Texas, I believe that Castle Doctrine DOES extend to your property, and I know that it extends to your vehicle.
    Also, in Texas Criminal Trespass does allow for deadly force, and it is considered 'criminal' trespass after verbal warning or proper signage...

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    there have been a few cases involving castle doc since it's inception here. most notably in my mind was a case down around houston. guy's neighbor was out of town, and so his house was being hit. neighbor got his shotgun, called the cops, and told them he was going out to stop it. cops told him do not go. he loaded a round an went out to confront them. if memory serves, they were running away with the loot, he shot them in the back. no indictment. no charges. one of the burglars gf's tried to sue for wrongful death, it was also thrown out as he was in commission of a crime. they also passed another law wherein it is legal to carry your weapon with you to your job, while traveling and i forget what else. finally, some semblance of the second! believe the gent in question was one mr horn.

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    Lone Star Veteran Gator5713's Avatar
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    neighbors property comes into play under the words 'in control of'... If your neighbor has asked you to keep an eye on their property while they are gone, then YOU are the one 'in control of' it... Also, you can legally carry on anyones property that you have permission to do so... My neighbors and I have a standing (verbal) agreement to watch out for each others property. If any of them caught someone on my property and shot them, I would gladly back them up in court! (but somehow I doubt it would make it to court!) Also, in the case of me and my immediate neighbor, whos property is whos is a very fuzzy line! There is nothing delineating a 'property line' between our houses, and we both use the property in between!

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    Man you just gotta love Texas. Now they only have to get Open Carry legalized.

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    mike75925 wrote:
    they also passed another law wherein it is legal to carry your weapon with you to your job, while traveling and i forget what else.
    Careful, careful. The traveling part is true, though outdated. Now, car carry is only illegal in the following instances:

    1) the handgun is in plain view: or
    2) the person is: A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor
    that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic; B) prohibited by law frompossessing a firearm: or C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.


    But the legislation that would have barred employers from prohibiting us from keeping firearms in our vehicles in the parking lot at work did not pass this session. Look up SB730 and HB1301 on the Texas legislature website.

    http://www.legis.state.tx.us/BillLoo...amp;Bill=SB730

    http://www.legis.state.tx.us/BillLoo...mp;Bill=HB1301

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    jarodm20 wrote:
    mike75925 wrote:
    they also passed another law wherein it is legal to carry your weapon with you to your job, while traveling and i forget what else.
    Careful, careful. The traveling part is true, though outdated. Now, car carry is only illegal in the following instances:

    1) the handgun is in plain view: or
    2) the person is: A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor
    that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic; B) prohibited by law frompossessing a firearm: or C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.


    But the legislation that would have barred employers from prohibiting us from keeping firearms in our vehicles in the parking lot at work did not pass this session. Look up SB730 and HB1301 on the Texas legislature website.

    http://www.legis.state.tx.us/BillLoo...amp;Bill=SB730

    http://www.legis.state.tx.us/BillLoo...mp;Bill=HB1301
    It passed the vote in the House, but the Senate never brought it up for a vote. Same thing with Campus Carry.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    It passed the vote in the House, but the Senate never brought it up for a vote. Same thing with Campus Carry.
    Actually, the Campus Carry bill was never voted on in the House. HB 1893 came out of committee and was left to die. SB 1164 on the other hand passed in the senate and was sent to the house, and never voted on due to a five-day filibuster. As a long-term student who is currently applying to medical schools in Texas, I had been watching these two bills closely. I will mention that HB 1893 had 5 authors and 70 co-authors, comprising a full _half_ of the house. If this bill had been voted on, only one person who was not already an author or co-author would have had to vote for it. Rick Perry had stated that he would support such a bill. Take a look at http://www.legis.state.tx.us for more information.

    Likewise, examination of the bills you mention show that HB 1301 was "left pending in committee," while the Senate bill (SB 730) was passed unanimously. I expect you simply confused the two bills in your posting.

    Apparently the house was tied up for several days due to a filibuster intended to kill a bill requiring photo ID to be presented by voters. Given the nature of the Texas legislature, this kind of action is crippling! So we'll have to wait and see if this can pass in 2 years! In the meantime, good luck.

    --ConcealedTexan

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Gator5713 wrote:
    Gunslinger wrote:
    Castle Doctrine only applies to someone in your dwelling--NOT on your property. Other laws may give you the right to use deadly force to protect your property--never against simple trespass, however. But the Castle Doc is ONLY for someone within your home. I'm not familiar with TX law, but would guess you have the right to protect your property. As far as you knew, they may have been armed. If so, you have the right to use deadly force as the threat has escalated to fear of death or grievous bodily harm.
    In Texas, I believe that Castle Doctrine DOES extend to your property, and I know that it extends to your vehicle.
    Also, in Texas Criminal Trespass does allow for deadly force, and it is considered 'criminal' trespass after verbal warning or proper signage...
    Just a quick check of TX law indicates that you have the right to use escalating force in protecting your property. This is different from the Castle Doctrine's automatic allowance of deadly force in your home. In the former, you will have the burden of proof in justifying deadly force--as in a felony was being or about to be committed on your property out of your residence; in the latter, the Castle Doctrine is an absolute defense of deadly force.

    If you're in your car and a carjacking is attempted, you have the right to use deadly force in every state, as carjacking is a felony and a crime of violence, under Common Law. Using deadly force against someone trying to steal it from your driveway is another matter and varies state to state. I have no doubt TX allows the use of deadly force in that event. However, as noted, Castle Doctrine per se applies only to the interior of your dwelling.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    This brings a question to my mind.

    I live in a gated apartment community, where do these protections apply?

    Obviously in the apartment, but what about the parking lot and common areas?

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Op cit. Castle Doctrine is only in your dwelling. Other laws deal with other situations. Common property in a condo is not a dwelling. You still have the right to use up to deadly force, but that defense escalates with the situation in the instant case.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Gunslinger wrote:
    Op cit. Castle Doctrine is only in your dwelling. Other laws deal with other situations. Common property in a condo is not a dwelling. You still have the right to use up to deadly force, but that defense escalates with the situation in the instant case
    That may be the way it reads in Colorado, but if you read the rest of the thread where Texas Castle doctrine is referenced, it applies to any real property under your control, including your vehicle! NOT just inside your dwelling....

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    Gator5713 wrote:
    Gunslinger wrote:
    Op cit. Castle Doctrine is only in your dwelling. Other laws deal with other situations. Common property in a condo is not a dwelling. You still have the right to use up to deadly force, but that defense escalates with the situation in the instant case
    That may be the way it reads in Colorado, but if you read the rest of the thread where Texas Castle doctrine is referenced, it applies to any real property under your control, including your vehicle! NOT just inside your dwelling....
    I think this is the bext arguement ever for everyone getting a segway to use when you get out of your car!Continue being in/on your property!All the way thru the shopping center, in the park to walk the dog, etc. Have a nice hidden holster in it... j/k but.. what if..

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