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Thread: "No Concealed Firearms: ... open carry OK? Whidbey Hospital

  1. #1
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    I had to take my wife to the emergency room at Whidbey General Hospital yesterday, and in the doorway I noticed a big sign that said "Concealed Firearms Prohibited" or words to that effect. So does that mean they're OK with open carry?

    That, of course, what not the time or place to make a stink over the issue, I just put the gun back in the truck (had been expecting something like this). Once we got home a few hours later I checked their website, and WGH calls its self a "Public Hospital District," and goes on to say it's owned "by the community." So does that make it public property where state firearm laws apply (therby making that sign illegal)?

    The crazy lady screaming in the other room about being off her meds made me feel really naked without some means of defense.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Back about the year 2000 Washington state mandated that all hospitals take a look at their safety programs (I've posted this info before but am unable to locate the thread at this time). What all of the hospitals did was to make themselves a weapons free zone., in essence a "feel good measure."
    In short if you OC you will be asked to remove the weapon. If you CC and are doing it properly, no one is the wiser.
    All they can do is ask you to leave or put it away if caught.

    Somewhere on this site is a list I made up of Hospitals that have a No Weapons policy. I can tell you that Group Health has a policy of no weapons and in fact state that they can terminate coverage.


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    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    M1Gunr wrote:
    I can tell you that Group Health has a policy of no weapons and in fact state that they can terminate coverage.
    Of whom? Explain this statement a little better please.
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Found the thread:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...mp;forum_id=55



    Everyone should read RCW 49.19 Washington State mandated that by July 1, 2000, each health care setting shall develop and implement a plan to reasonably prevent and protect employees from violence at the work-place setting. Nowhere does it say to prohibit weapons but management in their great wisdom, decided to make the places Weapon Free Zones.

    Tacoma General & Mary Bridge/ Childrens are both labeled as Gun Free Zones (every entry door).

    Group Health Policy Prohibits the presence of firearms and dangerous weapons within GHC facilities and establishes that all facilities owned or managed by Group Health Cooperative shall be GUN FREE ZONES. Under this policy any employee in possession of a firearm within a GHC facility may face disciplinary action including termination.

    A consumer in violation of this policy may be removed from the premises or terminated from enrollment.

    Visitors to GHC facilities, in violation of this policy, will be reported to police authorities.

  5. #5
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    M1Gunr wrote:
    I can tell you that Group Health has a policy of no weapons and in fact state that they can terminate coverage.
    Of whom? Explain this statement a little better please.
    I have a type written copy given to me by their security team after a visit to their version of the ER one night.

    Firearms and Dangerous Weapons in GHC Facilities
    Policy Number: F-07-008

    Adopted: 9/22/81
    Revised: 12/18/00

    POLICY
    This policy prohibits the presence of firearms and dangerous weapons within GHC facilities and establishes that all facilities owned or managed by Group Health Cooperative shall be GUN FREE ZONES. Under this policy any employee in possession of a firearm within a GHC facility may face disciplinary action including termination. A consumer in violation of this policy may be removed from the premises or terminated from enrollment. Visitors to GHC facilities, in violation of this policy, will be reported to police authorities.

    Firearms and Dangerous Weapons in GHC Facilities
    Procedures for: F-07-008
    Adopted: 9/22/81
    Revised: 12/18/00

    PROCEDURES
    Implementing Policy F-07-008

    Note: These procedures provide additional information related to Policy F-07-008, but are separate and distinct from that policy. The authorized Vice President retains discretion in implementing these procedures and can change them at any time, with or without notice.

    Explanation:
    This GUN AND WEAPONS FREE ZONE policy is designed to insure the delivery of quality services to GHC consumers in a safe environment and to enhance workplace safety for GHC employees.

    Applicability:
    This policy applies to all GHC consumers, employees, contracted service providers and visitors to GHC facilities.

    Exemptions: This policy does not apply to any person engaged in military activities sponsored by the Federal or State government, while engaged in official duty, law enforcement personnel, and Security personnel engaged in official duties.

    Possession of a valid concealed weapons permit authorized by the State of Washington is not an exemption under this policy.

    Scope:
    This policy implements the Anti-Violence Resolution recommended by the Board of Trustees at the 1994 Annual Meeting and subsequently adopted by the membership. That resolution requires that GHC shall develop a community-wide plan to prevent intentional injuries and acts of violence. This policy further supports the intent and requirements of the Revised Code of Washington chapter 49.19 regarding the prevention of incidents of Workplace Violence.

    Responsibilities:
    All GHC consumers, employees, contracted service providers and visitors to GHC facilities shall comply with the guns and weapons free zone policy by not carrying a weapon or by requesting the removal of any weapon they encounter.

    Definitions:
    "Firearm" means a weapon of device from which a projectile may be fired by an explosive such as gunpowder or any simulated firearm operated by gas, compressed air, or tension.
    "Dangerous weapon" means any instrument or weapon that can be used as a club and poses a reasonable risk of injury; also, any instrument of the kind usually known as a sling shot; sand club; or metal knuckles. A "dangerous weapon" can be a spring blade knife - or any knife, the blade of which opens, falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity or by an outward, downward or centrifugal thrust or movement - or any straight or fixed blade knife other than that specifically required for the performance of job responsibilities. A "dangerous weapon" also includes mace, pepper spray and stun guns.

    Selected Policies and Documents:
    GHC Policy A-03-001(5)
    GHC Policy F-02-015
    Revised Code of Washington Chapter 49.19

    Guidelines:
    "GUN AND WEAPONS FREE ZONE" signs shall be conspicuously posted within all GHC facilities and in parking areas and grounds surrounding GHC facilities, stating that "Firearms and other dangerous weapons are a health hazard and may not be carried inside any Group Health facility.
    Consumers: Any Group Health Cooperative consumer who is found to have a firearm or dangerous weapon on their person or in their control shall remove the weapon upon request of Group Health Cooperative personnel.

    Non-Emergency Consumers: Any consumer found in possession of any firearm or other dangerous weapon as defined above will be informed of the policy and required to remove the weapon prior to obtaining any services. Group Health Cooperative Security, or staff, will notify local law enforcement authorities if the consumer fails to comply with the request to remove a firearm or dangerous weapon. Consumers refusing to remove weapons after notice may be subject to termination from coverage as provided under GHC Policy A-03-001(5).

    Emergency Consumers: Group Health Cooperative Security Officers shall be notified when any consumer seeking emergency treatment is found in possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon. Security is responsible for notifying local law enforcement authorities to obtain necessary assistance.

    Visitors: Staff or security personnel shall request any visitor found in possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon to remove it from the facility and local law enforcement personnel will be promptly notified.

    Contracted Service Providers: Staff or security personnel shall request any visitor found in possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon to remove it from the facility and local law enforcement personnel will be promptly notified. Management representatives from the contracted service provider's company will also be promptly notified.

    Employees: Employees found in possession or control of a firearm or other dangerous weapon on any property under the control of Group Health Cooperative will remove the weapon upon request. Employees in violation of this policy are subject to disciplinary actions set forth in Group Health Cooperative policy F-02-015. Any employee concerned about personal safety may request an escort (e.g. to a parking lot off premises) or other appropriate intervention by security personnel at sites where available.

    GHC will make educational materials available to consumers regarding this policy and the magnitude of the firearm injury problem in the United States including its effect on health care costs.

    GHC will make training available to staff on crisis intervention and management techniques to facilitate implementation of this policy.

    Authorized Vice President: Scott Armstrong
    Designated Content Expert: Dave Pennington


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    Regular Member kwiebe's Avatar
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    It would make for an interesting lawsuit if a health care consumer's coverage were terminated over a firearms policy violation. I don't know whether there would even be grounds for it, but with this victim mentality in the country and hot button issue of health care, it's interesting to ponder at least.

    I love the cases where rights intersect in ways libs didn't anticipate. For example, it would also be interesting if a woman openly breast-fed her child whilst open carrying. At Group Health.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Interesting. I love how liberals think a little sign banning guns will keep bad guys with guns from going somewhere. No, actually, I hate that.

    So how does this relate to a publicly-owned hospital?
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  8. #8
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Metalhead47 wrote:
    So how does this relate to a publicly-owned hospital?
    Sorry but the thread got sidetracked........

    Public Owned Hospital is still run by a third party. That is how they are getting away with banning weapons (IE: Stadiums in Seattle and a few other places)

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    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    kwiebe wrote:
    It would make for an interesting lawsuit if a health care consumer's coverage were terminated over a firearms policy violation. I don't know whether there would even be grounds for it, but with this victim mentality in the country and hot button issue of health care, it's interesting to ponder at least.

    I love the cases where rights intersect in ways libs didn't anticipate. For example, it would also be interesting if a woman openly breast-fed her child whilst open carrying. At Group Health.
    But you forget... there is a federal law that prevents you from suing your health care provider!



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    What federal law is this?
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    joeroket wrote:
    What federal law is this?
    ERISA

    Actually, ERISA only prevents you from suing your Health INSURANCE Provider. There are some exceptions, but the process to get thru them is fairly long.

    Even then you can only sue for "specific performance", and not for any damages caused by their withholding treatment.

    So if they deny coverage, and you die because of it, all you can sue them for is to provide coverage the next time, so you don't die again.


  12. #12
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    Right Wing Wacko wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    What federal law is this?
    ERISA

    Actually, ERISA only prevents you from suing your Health INSURANCE Provider. There are some exceptions, but the process to get thru them is fairly long.
    OK thats what I thought you were talking about. Yes there are some restrictions but federal case law also, if I remember correctly, ruled that states may allow allow lawsuits against HMO's because it is in the best interest of the state and its citizens to have that power to do so.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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