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Thread: OC in restaurant

  1. #1
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    Going to VA from PA. I understand that if you carry in restaurant that serves alcohol then it must be OC.

    But what about any BUG (backup gun)? Can the BUG be concealed?

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    Not in VA. CC in any establishment that serves alcohol is still not allowed I believe.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    cock&lock wrote:
    Going to VA from PA. I understand that if you carry in restaurant that serves alcohol then it must be OC.

    But what about any BUG (backup gun)? Can the BUG be concealed?
    1. If yer a LEO

    2. If you wanna break the law on purpose.

    Carry On.

    Ed

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    That is a good question.

    I am guessing the purpose to OC is to make others aware you are armed.

    So if it is known you are armed, do you need to display ALL your guns?

    So I submit that you have to read the code and identify it is allows CC of guns. If not... you have to show 'em all.

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    I would submit that it is a violation of the law to carry a gun (or two or three) concealed into a restaurant that serves alcohol even if you open carry another gun (or two or three) since you are STILL carrying the concealed one which is the violation. I'd say its like being only just a little bit pregnant.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    va_tazdad wrote:
    Not in VA. CC in any establishment that serves alcohol is still not allowed I believe.
    That'll change after this election.

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    I doubt it. I have no faith in either candidate to correct the problem. :X

    I hope you are correct, but I doubt it.

  8. #8
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    va_tazdad wrote:
    I doubt it. I have no faith in either candidate to correct the problem. :X

    I hope you are correct, but I doubt it.
    Optimism! Optimism!

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    Dispatcher wrote:
    va_tazdad wrote:
    I doubt it. I have no faith in either candidate to correct the problem. :X

    I hope you are correct, but I doubt it.
    Optimism! Optimism!
    I was optimistic until Bob came up with the "brilliant" idea to sell the ABC and use the "$500 million" he thinks he will get to fix the transportation system.

    I doubt he will get the legislatuire to approve selling the 300+ stores, or find anybody willing to pay $500 millionand he has no way to replace the revenue the ABC generates each year if he is successful.

    Bob is definately thinking short term, not long term or down the road.

  10. #10
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    I hate to follow a digression from the main topic of a thread (okay, I'm a liar), but even if the Commonwealth doesn't even realize $500 from getting out of the business of selling booze, much less $500,000,000, it will still be a good thing.

    ~ Boyd

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    TexasNative wrote:
    I hate to follow a digression from the main topic of a thread (okay, I'm a liar), but even if the Commonwealth doesn't even realize $500 from getting out of the business of selling booze, much less $500,000,000, it will still be a good thing.

    ~ Boyd
    I'd be more worried it would turn into a state-sanctioned monopoly under private control. As in, it would still be illegal for anyone else to sell hard liquor.

    As to concealed in a restaurant, the law is clear:


    § 18.2-308

    J3. No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia; however, nothing herein shall prohibit any sworn law-enforcement officer or any retired law-enforcement officer who meets the definition of a "qualified retired law-enforcement officer" pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 926C and is carrying the identification required by such statute from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.
    Are you an owner or employee of the restaurant? Are you LEO? If not, you may not carry a concealed handgun there. Whether you also happen to be OCing another handgun or not is irrelevant.

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    Thanks everyone!

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    When carrying 2 pistols (1 CC in an ankle holster) I hike up my pants to 'openly carry' the BUG. Yes, it looks funny but I'm in compliance with the law.

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    I had thought of this question a while back since my backup gun is usually concealed but came to the same conclusion. The only other thing is to know the restaurant you are going to and whether they serve alcohol. I just like having a backup gun and I have been to two restaurants recently including the golden coral that don't serve alcohol so I don't need to change my normal OC&CC routine.

    Other than security, one other reason IOC in restaurants is to expose the inanity of the law so if the law gets "corrected" next year I will be happy. :-)

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    Xeni wrote:
    When carrying 2 pistols (1 CC in an ankle holster) I hike up my pants to 'openly carry' the BUG. Yes, it looks funny but I'm in compliance with the law.


    I guess the alternative is to wear those pants where the legs zip off to make shorts! Or roll up the pants leg to look like the "pedal pushers" of the 60's!!

    Now in addition to the VA Tuck, we have the VA Roll...

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    § 18.2-308

    J3. No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia; however, nothing herein shall prohibit any sworn law-enforcement officer or any retired law-enforcement officer who meets the definition of a "qualified retired law-enforcement officer" pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 926C and is carrying the identification required by such statute from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.
    So, a hypothetical just for giggles, if you didn't carry a concealed handgun ONTO the premises, but once on the premises, concealed said handgun that was carried ONTO the premises openly, would you be in compliance with the letter of the law?

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    I think the "carry" refers to the mode of holding the gun so it doesn't matter if you "carry" the gun in, then conceal it, they are talking about how the gun is or not displayed/visible.

    And "onto" the premises refers to in/on the premises so good luck convincing a jury.

  18. #18
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    This has always been one of my problems when I am carrying my bigger gun and have the backup.

    What a PITA.

  19. #19
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    Skeptic wrote:
    This has always been one of my problems when I am carrying my bigger gun and have the backup. What a PITA.
    Me too. Hopefully after the change of govenors and Gov. pain-in-my-___ Kaine won't be around to veto the changes.

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    45acpForMe wrote:
    I had thought of this question a while back since my backup gun is usually concealed but came to the same conclusion. The only other thing is to know the restaurant you are going to and whether they serve alcohol. I just like having a backup gun and I have been to two restaurants recently including the golden coral that don't serve alcohol so I don't need to change my normal OC&CC routine.

    Other than security, one other reason IOC in restaurants is to expose the inanity of the law so if the law gets "corrected" next year I will be happy. :-)
    It's not just *IF* they serve alcohol. It's if they have a license for consumption of alcohol on premises. Re-read that code cite from GWRedDragon. Serving alcohol wasn't a requirement. Having a license to do so is.

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    45acpForMe wrote:
    I think the "carry" refers to the mode of holding the gun so it doesn't matter if you "carry" the gun in, then conceal it, they are talking about how the gun is or not displayed/visible.

    And "onto" the premises refers to in/on the premises so good luck convincing a jury.
    I would have to disagree. We can only follow what the law says. We can only guess as to what the intention is.We all know how good guessing at the laws is. In other words, we can only follow the rules as written, not the rules as intended.

    I figure that based on his supposition, that if the GA wanted to ban CC while on premises, they would have written the law to do so. Instead they merely forbade us from going onto the premises while CC. They did NOT forbid transitioning from OC to CC while on premises.

    I can only go by what the law states in plain english.

  22. #22
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    darthmord wrote:
    It's not just *IF* they serve alcohol. It's if they have a license for consumption of alcohol on premises. Re-read that code cite from GWRedDragon. Serving alcohol wasn't a requirement. Having a license to do so is.
    A distinction without a difference. With the amount of revenue generated by alcohol sales, it's hard to imagine a restaurant licensed to sell alcohol that wouldn't do so.

    ~ Boyd

  23. #23
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    TexasNative wrote:
    darthmord wrote:
    It's not just *IF* they serve alcohol. It's if they have a license for consumption of alcohol on premises. Re-read that code cite from GWRedDragon. Serving alcohol wasn't a requirement. Having a license to do so is.
    A distinction without a difference. With the amount of revenue generated by alcohol sales, it's hard to imagine a restaurant licensed to sell alcohol that wouldn't do so.

    ~ Boyd
    Actually I have seen restaurants that have had the bar undergoing renovation and thus not serving alcohol despite having a license to do so.



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    Xeni wrote:
    When carrying 2 pistols (1 CC in an ankle holster) I hike up my pants to 'openly carry' the BUG.* Yes, it looks funny but I'm in compliance with the law.
    Thank goodness you don't use a smart carry!
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Xeni wrote:
    When carrying 2 pistols (1 CC in an ankle holster) I hike up my pants to 'openly carry' the BUG. Yes, it looks funny but I'm in compliance with the law.
    Thank goodness you don't use a smart carry!
    "VA law requires me to 'whip this out'" :what:

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