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Thread: Man protects himself from assault

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    PYLYMOUTH — A 17-year-old male from Norristown was adjudicated delinquent in juvenile court after admitting he assaulted a bicyclist on the Schuylkill River Trail in the Conshohocken section of Plymouth township. During last week’s altercation, the cyclist fired a gun at the teenager’s bicycle, hitting its rear tire.

    When Plymouth Township police went to the home of the teenager’s father to arrest the juvenile, they discovered an alleged “bicycle chop shop” in the basement that included nearly 20 bicycles and bike parts suspected of being stolen, according to Montgomery County District Attorney Risa Vetri Ferman.

    The DA, who was joined by police and detectives from Plymouth and Norristown police departments, displayed the contraband inside a sally port at Plymouth Police Department.

    Investigators are seeking the public’s help to identify the bikes, many of which are Mongoose BMX brand.

    “Dozens, maybe even 100 bikes, were moved through this (Norristown) residence,” Ferman said.

    On Wednesday, July 22, Plymouth police received reports of shots fired on the bike path, and a 27-year-old Norristown man, Joseph James DePaul Jr., called police to report he had fired a weapon after two teenagers harassed him on the trail.

    As DePaul tried to get onto the bike trail in Conshohocken around 8:30 p.m., two juveniles on bikes reportedly blocked his path. Though DePaul was able to get around them, both juveniles followed him, according to the DA’s Office.

    After the teens passed the 27-year-old cyclist, the juveniles collided with each other, and as DePaul rode by them, they “exchanged words” with him.

    Soon after, the 17-year-old got back on his BMX bike and chased DePaul, and after catching up to him kicked him causing him to nearly lose control of his bike and hit a fence.

    DePaul admitted that he drew his Keltec .380 caliber handgun and fired six shots in the direction of the teen who had kicked him. One bullet struck and flattened the rear tire of the fleeing bicycle. The juvenile was about 200 to 250 feet away at the time, authorities said. At the time of the incident, DePaul had a legal permit to carry the weapon.

    Two days after the shooting, county Sheriff John P. Durante exercised his authority to revoke DePaul’s firearm license on the grounds of endangering public safety. The Sheriff’s Department also is authorized to issue gun permits and operates independently of the district attorney.

    Though the armed man was initially facing attempted murder and manslaughter charges, Ferman said she would likely withdraw the most serious charges, including attempted murder.

    “It warrants re-examination,” she said. “DePaul was a victim of assault, and in his mind he was acting in self-defense.”

    Another factor bolstering DePaul’s self-defense claim is that following the attack on him, he lost sight of the other juvenile suspect and became concerned.

    “Based on all the information available to us now, it appears that under the circumstances his actions were reasonable,” Ferman said.

    In recent months, countywide reports of harassment of cyclists on the river trail have risen, although no specific figures were available. Norristown police and county sheriff’s deputies have beefed up patrols since meeting with a cycling group in June.

    “People riding bikes shouldn’t have to worry about things like this happening on the bike trail,” she said, and encouraged anyone running into trouble to contact local police immediately.

    Besides police and deputies patrolling the recreational route, Ferman said authorities will employ stealthier enforcement methods.

    “You’re going to see some undercover operations,” she said.

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    ogroup wrote:
    DePaul admitted that he drew his Keltec .380 caliber handgun and fired six shots in the direction of the teen who had kicked him. One bullet struck and flattened the rear tire of the fleeing bicycle. The juvenile was about 200 to 250 feet away at the time, authorities said. At the time of the incident, DePaul had a legal permit to carry the weapon.
    I don't think it's too early to make the call:

    Goof with a gun.



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    Regular Member turbodog's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    ogroup wrote:
    DePaul admitted that he drew his Keltec .380 caliber handgun and fired six shots in the direction of the teen who had kicked him. One bullet struck and flattened the rear tire of the fleeing bicycle. The juvenile was about 200 to 250 feet away at the time, authorities said. At the time of the incident, DePaul had a legal permit to carry the weapon.
    I don't think it's too early to make the call:

    Goof with a gun.

    LOL I agree. If the attacker was some 200 feet away at the point he fired, he deserves losing his CCW. He shot because he was PO'd, not because he was facing an immediate threat.
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Him: "I carry my gun concealed"
    Me: "You're not very good at it"
    Him: "What do you mean?"
    Me: "I know you have a gun"
    End of conversation.

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    Unfortunate what happened to this guy, but, he had no justification to pull his weapon and fire when his life was "not in danger". Makes the rest of the disciplined, level headed, clear thinking OC, CCW individuals look bad. This guy should be sentenced to community service and extended weapons handling classes!

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    Regular Member Springfield45's Avatar
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    turbodog wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    ogroup wrote:
    DePaul admitted that he drew his Keltec .380 caliber handgun and fired six shots in the direction of the teen who had kicked him. One bullet struck and flattened the rear tire of the fleeing bicycle. The juvenile was about 200 to 250 feet away at the time, authorities said. At the time of the incident, DePaul had a legal permit to carry the weapon.
    I don't think it's too early to make the call:

    Goof with a gun.

    LOL I agree. If the attacker was some 200 feet away at the point he fired, he deserves losing his CCW. He shot because he was PO'd, not because he was facing an immediate threat.
    +1 IMO, you are exactly right. However, the guy does deserve a pat on the back,
    he did manage to hit a bicycle at almost 75- 100 yards with a Kel-Tec .380 (P3AT?):what:
    Maybe it was lots of luck, but if it wasn't, he was concentrating pretty damn hard
    to hit his target... or maybe (most likely) it was a spray 'n' pray...

    I wish I could hit a watermelon at 60 yards with my P3AT...

    P.S. I'm not bashing the quality or accuracy of the Kel-Tecs, I think they are very good quality pieces for the price. I'm simply stating that I think it is quite a feat to hit anything related to your target at that range with a 1.5"-2" barrel BUG.

    ~~Springfield

    ETA

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    turbodog wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    ogroup wrote:
    DePaul admitted that he drew his Keltec .380 caliber handgun and fired six shots in the direction of the teen who had kicked him. One bullet struck and flattened the rear tire of the fleeing bicycle. The juvenile was about 200 to 250 feet away at the time, authorities said. At the time of the incident, DePaul had a legal permit to carry the weapon.
    I don't think it's too early to make the call:

    Goof with a gun.

    LOL I agree. If the attacker was some 200 feet away at the point he fired, he deserves losing his CCW. He shot because he was PO'd, not because he was facing an immediate threat.



    Exactly. Someone 200-250 feet away equipped with only a bicycle is hardly an immediate threat. Which makes me wonder about something. The title of the published article was

    "Hunt for trail assailant leads to bicycle chop shop"

    http://pottsmerc.com/articles/2009/0...d920107924.txt



    but somehow the article was introduced here as "Man protects himself from assault" with a subtitle of "Montco revokes permit after protecting one-self."

    Kind of points out how things can be spun. The antis and the gun-grabbers do that all the time. So do the gun guys.

    Luckily, it's easy to spot...



    I do agree with Springfield45, though. Heckuva shot to hit the biketire. :what:

    Still, DePaul shouldn't be walking around with a gun. He's proven his incompetence with such devices.







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    Bad reaction. Got pissed and shot. No good.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    ogroup wrote:
    DePaul admitted that he drew his Keltec .380 caliber handgun and fired six shots in the direction of the teen who had kicked him. One bullet struck and flattened the rear tire of the fleeing bicycle. The juvenile was about 200 to 250 feet away at the time, authorities said. At the time of the incident, DePaul had a legal permit to carry the weapon.
    I don't think it's too early to make the call:

    Goof with a gun.


    Damn it Hank!! This guy is a true HERO! Hewas accosted by two evil bike riders and what do youdo?

    ....



    ..........



    ..............



    ...................

    He displays exceptional marksmanship, shooting out the tire of the perps bike, and you have the audacity to criticize the skilled marksman. Me thinks you are just jealous!


    3 cheers for the Keltec 380 btw.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Thundar wrote:
    He displays exceptional marksmanship, shooting out the tire of the perps bike, and you have the audacity to criticize the skilled marksman. Me thinks you are just jealous!
    Well, I guess it's true. Am not sure I've ever evenfired a handgun, aiming at a target 250 feet out.

    I agree those little Kel-Tecs are quite useful for the right purpose. Which doesn't include shooting out bicycle tires...

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    HankT wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    He displays exceptional marksmanship, shooting out the tire of the perps bike, and you have the audacity to criticize the skilled marksman. Me thinks you are just jealous!
    Well, I guess it's true. Am not sure I've ever evenfired a handgun, aiming at a target 250 feet out.

    I agree those little Kel-Tecs are quite useful for the right purpose. Which doesn't include shooting out bicycle tires...
    Honestly, one comment made, "he sprayed and prayed", is the closest to the truth you are going to see. The "exceptional marksman" got really dang lucky, that's all.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    A couple hundred feet away does not constitute a threat unless the other guy was obviously armed. Which there is no mention of that in the article, the guy needs some help.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Springfield45's Avatar
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    I usually have mixed feelings about a lot of HankT's posts, but I've found myself agreeing with him lately. I feel that the HPCSD (HankT's Postulate of Civilian Self Defense) which states (for those who don't know) "It is a bad strategy
    to shoot an unarmed person", definitely applies here. In short, the man was a goof with a gun.

    ~~Springfield

    Edited for spelling


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    Springfield45 wrote:
    I usually have mixed feelings about a lot of HankT's posts, but I've found myself agreeing with him lately. I feel that the HPCSD (HankT's Postulate of Civilian Self Defense) which states (for those who don't know) "It is a bad strategy
    to shoot an unarmed person", definitely applies here. In short, the man was a goof with a gun.

    ~~Springfield

    Edited for spelling
    Never ever admit that you agree with Hank. Sort of liketelling a cop who has pulled you over,"sure, you can search my car, I have nothing to hide."

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    Regular Member Springfield45's Avatar
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    Jonesy wrote:
    Springfield45 wrote:
    I usually have mixed feelings about a lot of HankT's posts, but I've found myself agreeing with him lately. I feel that the HPCSD (HankT's Postulate of Civilian Self Defense) which states (for those who don't know) "It is a bad strategy
    to shoot an unarmed person", definitely applies here. In short, the man was a goof with a gun.

    ~~Springfield

    Edited for spelling
    Never ever admit that you agree with Hank. Sort of liketelling a cop who has pulled you over,"sure, you can search my car, I have nothing to hide."
    LMAO !!!!!

    ~~Springfield

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    I think you're all wrong in this scenario assessment..

    Victim appempts to initiate a late eve. bike ride (sun setting,woods heavily shadowed)

    Two perps make aggressive maneuvers to separate the man from his bike with no concern for the outcome or the mans well being.

    Not once but twice they attempt to re-engage the victim, without success.

    Then the perps make an attempt to advance themselves farther up the trail in what could be constreued as an ambush settup..

    In these low light hours/subdued lighting time of day, the man could of just as easily mistaken the glare of a wristwatch/handbrake lever/ or any accessory closeto the perps handsfor a small handgun and fired at an even more lethal range..



    I'd say the fella stopped the threat of a suspected ambush, since he most likely felt they were out to do him harm, and or take his transportation, especially since a further investigation revealed that the perps were dealing in stolen bicycles.. I hope ya'll are more understanding of the victims situation some day when your wife or daughter goes out for a stroll on a bike..



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    Yeah I think I might have to agree more with Carnivore, although I am conflicted. I feel like someone 66-82 yds away who is unarmed is not a threat, but then again on a bike he may have been much closer when he started shooting.

    The kicker for me in this situation is the fact that they attacked him multiple times already, and it didn't say but he may have shown the attackers his gun earlier and gave them the option to leave...either way they didn't.

    Perhaps the attacker who's wheel was shot was preparing an ambush. He could clearly ride faster than the victim, and so by shooting at him any further attacks or ambushes were halted. An attacker who runs away but plans to attack again is still an active threat.

    Its still kinda iffy especiallygiven the lack of solid primary sources, but at the end of the day, some punk who's terrorized innocent people got shot at and a person just trying to go about their business walkedaway unharmed. I'm okay with that.

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    What If? Knowing the facts of this case, the victim, from 150 plus feet had shot and killed the kid, what would a jury rule in this situation? Sure, he was being harrassed, why didn't he fire his weapon at the first encounter? The kids were leaving, the victim should have had the sense to back pedal out of there and turn around and flee the confrontation. He reacted late, and irresponsibly. His life was in NO threat when the perps were at that distance. IMO, bad call.

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