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GMU's Regulation Held to Be Constitutional

TexasNative

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It seems to me that, with this ruling, public universities are recognized as having the ability to prohibit someone from being present on their campuses because they are armed. I suppose that would take the form of a trespassing charge.

~ Boyd
 

Grapeshot

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nova wrote:
Neplusultra wrote:
I was also wondering what effect this is going to have OCing on other campuses. I've OCed a number of times at VA Tech without incident..... If they stop you all they can do is ask you to leave IIAC. Unless they have no firearms posted at the entrances to campus.
I'm not sure it has any effect, GMU and VCU are the only public universities with any gun ban in VAC. I don't believe VT, ODU, etc. can legally enforce their policy against the public.
And the difference in their position/status is .................?

Yata hey
 

nova

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WAIT WAIT WAIT
---------
8VAC35-60-20. Possession of weapons prohibited.
Possession or carrying of any weapon by any person, except a police officer, is prohibited on university property in academic buildings, administrative office buildings, student residence buildings, dining facilities, or while attending sporting, entertainment or educational events. Entry upon the aforementioned university property in violation of this prohibition is expressly forbidden.
Statutory Authority
§ 23-91.29 of the Code of Virginia.
Historical Notes
Derived from Virginia Register Volume 24, Issue 1, eff. August 28, 2007; amended, Virginia Register Volume 25, Issue 5, eff. November 10, 2008.
----------------

So...only a "police officer" is allowed to carry a weapon, eh? Last year I spent a lot of time in Student Union Building 1 (which houses the cash office) and often watched the armored car (Dunbar IIRC) guys come in to collect the money. Like most armored car employees, they were armed, specifically revolvers (appeared to be S&W M10 4" Heavy bbl). I can only assume there is an armored car that services the Chevy Chase bank in the Johnson Center building as well.

Armored Car drivers are NOT police officers, or any other type of LEO for that matter.

Somebody better bring this to GMU's attention, as THERE ARE PEOPLE WITH GUNS ON GMU'S CAMPUS WHO ARE NOT COPS!!!!:what::what:OH NO!!!!:)
 

Virginiaplanter

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Here is the Transcript of the Opinion.

The following transcript has some typographical errors and refers to Justice Scalia as "Guliae" and cites where people cannot currently carry as if they can carry there. The July 31, 2009 Opinion.
 

GWRedDragon

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Virginiaplanter wrote:
An appeal in this case is desired. As I have been through this process before including arguing before a panel of the Virgina Supreme Court, I have a good handle on what needs to be done. Paying for it is a different story.
Set up a donation page! I'll chip in $5, I'm sure there are plenty of others who will give more.
 

Grapeshot

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Virginiaplanter wrote:
Here is the Transcript of the Opinion.

The following transcript has some typographical errors and refers to Justice Scalia as "Guliae" and cites where people cannot currently carry as if they can carry there. The July 31, 2009 Opinion.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

It does not feel better when I stop.

Yata hey
 

tag

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GWRedDragon wrote:
Virginiaplanter wrote:
An appeal in this case is desired. As I have been through this process before including arguing before a panel of the Virgina Supreme Court, I have a good handle on what needs to be done. Paying for it is a different story.
Set up a donation page! I'll chip in $5, I'm sure there are plenty of others who will give more.

http://www.virginia1774.org/GMULawsuit.html

I believe he already has one. Go to the link above and scroll to the very bottom. It's a paypal link
 

GWRedDragon

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tag wrote:
GWRedDragon wrote:
Virginiaplanter wrote:
An appeal in this case is desired. As I have been through this process before including arguing before a panel of the Virgina Supreme Court, I have a good handle on what needs to be done. Paying for it is a different story.
Set up a donation page! I'll chip in $5, I'm sure there are plenty of others who will give more.

http://www.virginia1774.org/GMULawsuit.html

I believe he already has one. Go to the link above and scroll to the very bottom. It's a paypal link
Gotcha. Just sent my $5. We need a donation drive for this, something to get the word out. I bet the response would be huge!
 

Grapeshot

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GWRedDragon wrote:
tag wrote:
GWRedDragon wrote:
Virginiaplanter wrote:
An appeal in this case is desired. As I have been through this process before including arguing before a panel of the Virgina Supreme Court, I have a good handle on what needs to be done. Paying for it is a different story.
Set up a donation page! I'll chip in $5, I'm sure there are plenty of others who will give more.

http://www.virginia1774.org/GMULawsuit.html

I believe he already has one. Go to the link above and scroll to the very bottom. It's a paypal link
Gotcha. Just sent my $5. We need a donation drive for this, something to get the word out. I bet the response would be huge!
This should be cross posted outside the Va. forum to get some national attention.

Yata hey
 

nova

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Just read though it again...found something interesting here. It appears as though carrying a firearm is fine on the campus itself, just "prohibited" in the buildings or at "activities" that draw a large crowd.

The regulation in question prohibits the
16 possession or carrying of a weapon by any person other
17 than a police officer in academic buildings,
18 administrative office buildings, student/resident
19 buildings, dining facilities or while attending
20 sporting, entertainment or educational events on the
21 University property.

-- this
1 regulation does not prohibit universally possession of
2 weapons on the campus of George Mason University
;
3 rather, it specifies discrete facilities and activities
4 which are subject to the ban. These are areas and
5 activities which would cause a gathering of students,
6 employees, invitees and community members.

The regulation is narrowly drawn to addressed
11 locations asserted to be sensitive places.
emphasis mine.

On a related topic I previously stated, armored car personnel armed with firearms enter several buildings on campus, SUB 1 and Johnson Center specifically, to collect money from the university cash office and Chevy Chase Bank, respectively. They are not by legal definition "law enforcement officers", much less "police officers".

If I'm interpreting this judges interpretation correctly, I should be able to freely Open Carry my firearm on GMU's campus, given I stay out of any academic, administrative, or dining facilities/buildings, and away from any sporting, entertainment, or educational gatherings elsewhere on campus.

Is this what we call case law being established?:)
 

nova

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on a related GMU note, I found this:

http://www.gmu.edu/police/forms/whattodo.pdf

It says:

Verbally inform the officer of any weapons which might be present and whether you possess a concealed weapons permit
Yes they are incorrectly using "concealed weapons permit" as there is no such thing in Virginia.

We are also in a state that does not require notifying the officer of our carrying.
 

TexasNative

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This isn't directed at you, Dave, it's just that your last post made me think of this.

I'm as guilty as the next guy of being too anally retentive, but I think we often go too far in sticking our noses in the air and saying, in effect, "It's a Concealed Handgun Permit, not a CWP or CCW or anything else...dumbass."

It seems to me that when folks are speaking generically of permits which allow the permittee to carry a concealed firearm, it's not unreasonable to use these alternate terms. Sure, if your speaking specifically about the Virginia permit, especially the process to get one, or if it's important to the conversation to emphasize that our permit doesn't cover long guns or any other weapon, then it's reasonable to emphasize the "CHP" aspect of things.

But generally speaking, too many of us get hung up unnecessarily over the terminology here. I daresay that most of the time that we're speaking about the CHP, it really applies to all similar permits, regardless of what they're called. A Virginia CHP falls into the generic category of "concealed weapons permits," even though it's not inclusive of all weapons and has a different name.

And further, someone legally carrying a concealed handgun in Virginia may not have a CHP, but a CWP or whatever from another state. In many cases, it doesn't matter, and it's pointless to get all snooty about "we don't have CWPs or CCWs or any of that crap in Virginia. We have CHPs!"

So I just think we ought to stop getting all caught up in the hype of the Virginia CHP. Sometimes, it's not only correct to call them "concealed weapons permits," but it's actually more correct to use the generic term than the Virginia-specific CHP.

Sorry for the rant, and sorry if it seems like I'm picking on you, Dave. You just happened to be the guy standing around when I started firing, and, well, you do make a big target. :)

~ Boyd
 

nova

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no problem...I don't care if people use other terms in casual conversation, but I feel that an official document from an actual VA law enforcement agency should use the proper terminology, that's all :)
 

TexasNative

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But see, Dave, this is a case where I don't think CHP is the proper terminology. It seems to me it would apply equally to someone from, say Florida, with a Florida CWP (or whatever they call them). My point is, it doesn't just apply to holders of Virginia CHPs, it applies to all (generically, and uncapitalized) concealed weapon permit holders.

~ Boyd
 

nova

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TexasNative wrote:
But see, Dave, this is a case where I don't think CHP is the proper terminology. It seems to me it would apply equally to someone from, say Florida, with a Florida CWP (or whatever they call them). My point is, it doesn't just apply to holders of Virginia CHPs, it applies to all (generically, and uncapitalized) concealed weapon permit holders.

~ Boyd
True, but the fact remains that they are telling you to notify the officer of any weapons and if you have a permit. Neither are required for you to voluntarily notify of.
 

TexasNative

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I agree, but I wasn't talking about notification. I was talking about persons with concealed weapon permits as a larger group which includes Virginia CHP holders.

~ Boyd
 

nova

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TexasNative wrote:
I agree, but I wasn't talking about notification. I was talking about persons with concealed weapon permits as a larger group which includes Virginia CHP holders.

~ Boyd
I understand what you were saying, I was just changing the subject. :lol:

On the topic, I don't have a VA CHP (yet) but I do have a "Permit to Carry Concealed Firearms" from Maine, and a "Pistol/Revolver License" from NH...which is not needed for anything other than concealed carry in NH's laws)
 

user

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That was what I was afraid would happen. I asked you not to do it. I gave you advice about how to fix what you'd written and you rejected my advice. Please don't take an appeal, I think I can guarantee that you will create a bad precedent that will apply throughout the Commonwealth.
 

Grapeshot

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user wrote:
That was what I was afraid would happen. I asked you not to do it. I gave you advice about how to fix what you'd written and you rejected my advice. Please don't take an appeal, I think I can guarantee that you will create a bad precedent that will apply throughout the Commonwealth.
This reply references which posting?

Yata hey
 
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