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How much access does the gun board have??

V

Veritas

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
662
Location
Oakland County, Michigan, USA
imported post

DrTodd wrote:
This may answer some questions:

http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/datafiles/2000s/op10265.htm
Click to expand...
The AG opinion expresses that the board does not have the power to independently determine that someone is mentally ill. However, the OP has been diagnosed as having a clinical depression; most likely by psychologist(s) who DO have that power. I might be wrong, but I believe that a diagnosis of clinical depression may be considered a mental health disorder. If this is the case, then the board needn't infer anything... a diagnosis has been made and they can deny a permit based on that.

My inclination is that the OP will be denied a CPL and that an attempt to appeal will be unsuccessful. This is one of those rare circumstances that I would recommend seeking the advice of an attorney who specializes in this area. It might help to seek other clinical opinions of your mental health... doctors occasionally misdiagnose.
 
S

Springfield Smitty

Regular Member
Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
296
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OKC, OK (Heading back to MI very soon - thank good
imported post

I have read all that informatin. It is all on the CD-ROM they give out when you file the application. I guess my question is wheter or not depression is considered a metal illness. There is no definition in the mental health code or anywhere else in MI law of what a "mental illness" is.

On the other hand, if I seek the opinion of a qualified psychologist / doctor and they see no signs of depression or mental illness would this still prevent the issue of the license?

"Ever" sure is a long time and does not seem like it should prevent one from a certain quality of life in the future.
 
C

Citizen

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Nov 15, 2006
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Fairfax Co., VA
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Veritas wrote:
[size=-1][font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"]http://michigan.gov/msp/1,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10926--,00.html

16.Not have a diagnosed mental illness at the time the application is made, regardless of whether he or she is receiving treatment

I don't think you're going to be approved. They probably won't even call you before them for a meeting. If you have been diagnosed with a mental illness at the time the application is made, it is cause to deny.

Going before the board, as I understand it, is to clarify things that are classified as being "in the gray area". But the states rules are hard and fast... no gray area on this one.

I could be wrong though.
[/font][/size]
Click to expand...
Good reason for y'all to get started on cleaning up the application requirements.

The psych's have been adding to the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)as time goes on. All sorts of psycho-babble mental illnesses in there.

Combine it with the fact that psychiatry can't really cure anyone and its entirelyarguable that a person will have whatever mental illness for the rest of hislife.

For example, there is some disorder listed having to do with being shy, or meeting people, or some such--social anxiety disorder. Should a person be ineligible because he, in good faith, sought treatment to overcome a problem inhibiting his career?

Oh, here is good one that popped up on the first google return page--internet addiction disorder. I haven't checked to see if it is listed in the DSM, but just wait until it is. Spend too much time on gun forums--whoosh, some of your gun rights disappear.
 
S

Springfield Smitty

Regular Member
Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
296
Location
OKC, OK (Heading back to MI very soon - thank good
imported post

Well, here is some case law. This ruling from the MI Supreme Court supports a circuit court's order to a county gun board to issue a CPL to a man who was very clearly a threat to himself and others in the past.

http://coa.courts.mi.gov/documents/opinions/final/coa/20050920_c255738_42_167o.255738.opn.coa.pdf

I also want to point out that the CPL application has apparently been revised. The mental illness question is number six. It now reads, "Do you have a diagnosed mental illness, regardless of whether you are receiving treatment for that illness?"

This is not worded in the past-tense, but the present."Do you"is different than "have you ever been".

What is perhaps most disturbing is that the gentleman in the supreme court opinion above is a reserve deputy. Scary thought when you read his mental health history.
 
PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

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Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
imported post

Citizen wrote:
Veritas wrote:
[size="-1"][font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"]http://michigan.gov/msp/1,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10926--,00.html

16.Not have a diagnosed mental illness at the time the application is made, regardless of whether he or she is receiving treatment

I don't think you're going to be approved. They probably won't even call you before them for a meeting. If you have been diagnosed with a mental illness at the time the application is made, it is cause to deny.

Going before the board, as I understand it, is to clarify things that are classified as being "in the gray area". But the states rules are hard and fast... no gray area on this one.

I could be wrong though.
[/font][/size]
Click to expand...
Good reason for y'all to get started on cleaning up the application requirements.

The psych's have been adding to the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)as time goes on. All sorts of psycho-babble mental illnesses in there.

Combine it with the fact that psychiatry can't really cure anyone and its entirelyarguable that a person will have whatever mental illness for the rest of hislife.

For example, there is some disorder listed having to do with being shy, or meeting people, or some such--social anxiety disorder. Should a person be ineligible because he, in good faith, sought treatment to overcome a problem inhibiting his career?

Oh, here is good one that popped up on the first google return page--internet addiction disorder. I haven't checked to see if it is listed in the DSM, but just wait until it is. Spend too much time on gun forums--whoosh, some of your gun rights disappear.
Click to expand...
Soon to come along in that list - Data Addiction: http://www.dataaddiction.com/

Most people here would probably qualify...
 
S

Springfield Smitty

Regular Member
Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
296
Location
OKC, OK (Heading back to MI very soon - thank good
imported post

I just spoke with the Prosecuting Attorney in our area (intially about another issue) and ended up on the CPL topic. He asked me to senda letter to the county clerk (also the gun board clerk) describing the extent and situation regardingthe past history of menal illness. He said that this should appease the state police commander who pays close attetion when this particular issue comes up.

If the letter is not enough, he said I would be called in for a "show cause" hearing regarding the issue. He said that I would certainly not be denied outright -that they would ALWAYS conduct this "show cause" hearing to get more information.

Accordingto him, I can look forward to having my CPL by the end ofnext month. YAY!!
 
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