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Damn forum butchered my above post...

I'm trying to point out that my posts in the thread you mention were made before jeffw had his problems with the Sgt from Milpitas PD.

I no longer encourage voluntarily identifying yourself.

ETA: here's the link that didn't make it into my above response - http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=26932&forum_id=12

Here's how it started to go south (it went further, just read the thread):

jeffw wrote:

All those who said it was a bad idea to contact the local PDs, please form a line for your "I told you so".

A very non-professional Sgt. Tran (head of SWAT) called me today to ask a few more questions. These were mainly about why I was going to carry, and where I might frequent while carrying. While on the phone my girlfriend was with me and she was applying for a job. A natural part of this is giving your name... You guessed it, he overhead. He thanked me for my time and hung up.

I get to work and my girlfriend calls me saying there was a police officer at her house when she got there. He took down all of her information and her brother's. He asked loads of questions about my mental state. Then he suggested that one day I could snap and shoot everyone. Awesome.

I called Sgt. Tran back and tried to straighten things out. He said that if they get a report of a man with a gun, they'll have at least four on duty officers dispatched, and possibly SWAT. He says that while I might be sane today, I might snap tomorrow and go on a rampage. Even while answering his questions, he was constantly interrupting me. I ended the call after telling him that I did not appreciate being interrupted... multiple times. I told him to have a nice day and that I'd call back tomorrow. Apparently he won't be in tomorrow. I'm fine with that, I'll just speak with a lieutenant.

I don't believe it is in my best interest, or anyone else for that matter, to carry in Milpitas.

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bigtoe416 wrote:

It's pretty simple to be an anonymous OCer. You wear your firearm and you don't carry ID. I've open carried my handgun twice (both at OC events) and neither time did I have identification on me. Nobody on this forum knows where I live outside of my city, so unless I am followed home, I am anonymous.

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1) You can "anonymously" talk to the cops the same way. 2) In neither case are you really that anonymous as it would require only the most basic "police work" to identify you. Maybe more trouble than it's worth in most situations but certainly not anonymous.

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bad_ace wrote:

deforcer wrote:

TatankaGap wrote:

First, remember that the LEOs - especially in Santa Clara County are monitoring this site - so don't post unless you intend to have the LEOs have notice of what you post -...

BadAce has direct experience on this - check out other threads on this topic -...

Question, do you notify local LEOs when you exercise your other rights lawfully?

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I think that's the wrong attitude.

As to SCC sheriff's office, I hereby extend an open invitation to buy lunch and give my best explanation first hand. I promise also to listen to your concerns. If you are interested in taking me up on this, contact me by PM.

As for BadAce, I made a quick look at his threads and couldn't find the problem you and he mentioned. Please give us a url or elaborate here.

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TatankaGap could be refering to this thread http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/28786.html
You can read that thread I won't make my point twice.

I recently started a blog (short for web log). Some consider this an expression of my 1st amendment rights. No matter how offensive it could be to the general public I never thought to run it by my local authorities to make sure they were ok with it. Additionally during the election last year (and prop 8 this year) lots of people stood on street corners exercising their 1st and I doubt they cleared it with PD.

I will not ask for permission to do something that is completely legal and I believe a human right. Others rights end where mine begin. Which is to say I dont care if I turn someone "off", so long as they dont use violence in an effort to stop me from exercising my rights. Creating a law and deferring the burden of violence to LE is just as bad.

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I assum you're referring to the "don't OC or you'll get shot by a rookie" argument. I don't find that convincing in any way. Might as well be telling us "don't own a gun".

OC is, at this time, inherently educational. Offensive speech is something that everyone is familiar with. (If we were talking about free speech in a newly liberated country I'd make the same argument, take it slowly.)

You are not merely exercising your de jure right. You are enlarging your de facto rights toward your de jure rights. You need to allow people time to adjust. Common courtesy and general diplomacy will go a long way toward easing that social change along. Cops, in particular, are not the antagonists here.

I'm not suggesting to deferto LE but simply to treat them like human beings who need time to learn the law and adjust to the newreality that you are seeking to create.

Some patience please!

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deforcer wrote:

I assum you're referring to the "don't OC or you'll get shot by a rookie" argument. I don't find that convincing in any way. Might as well be telling us "don't own a gun".

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No I was referring to this:

bad_ace wrote:

dirtykoala, You're not likely to get a LEO to reply, nice try. But I know for a fact that the Santa Clara Sheriff Department reads this forum on a regular basis. Whether this is being done by deputies as a function of their duties or in their free time is unclear.

I'd suggest open letters to Police departments and Sheriffs departments, posted here. Since you know there is at least one way communication, I'd use it. Some of our activity is the topic-de-jour at the department water cooler so I'd keep any points you have short and simple.

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bad_ace wrote:

No I was referring to this:

bad_ace wrote:

dirtykoala, You're not likely to get a LEO to reply, nice try. But I know for a fact that the Santa Clara Sheriff Department reads this forum on a regular basis. Whether this is being done by deputies as a function of their duties or in their free time is unclear.

I'd suggest open letters to Police departments and Sheriffs departments, posted here. Since you know there is at least one way communication, I'd use it. Some of our activity is the topic-de-jour at the department water cooler so I'd keep any points you have short and simple.

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This is a public forum after all. I assume everything I write is read by the worst enemies of the 2A and that if they go to enough trouble they can find me.

(My lawyer friends say never put in writing anything you are not willing to have said against you in a court of law.)

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deforcer wrote:

This is a public forum after all. I assume everything I write is read by the worst enemies of the 2A and that if they go to enough trouble they can find me.

(My lawyer friends say never put in writing anything you are not willing to have said against you in a court of law.)

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I wish this line of thinking would catch on with everybody here...

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Bull Frog wrote:

Let me toss this idea out to all of you. I have not OC'd yet; I'm just a little uneasy about it. Your opinions, please: What do think of advising local law enforcement agencies of one's intent to OC? Iwould limit the letter to my intent, my name, and my address.

Which of course would give them the necessary info to run a background check. Good idea? Bad? I welcome any feedback here; it may be a way to get the OC issue more advertising, especially if one were to copy the local newspapers, public defenders office, et cetera.

Iwill not do this before I see a through discussion here. Then we may think about form letters (think petition), but let's make certain they are error free and we all are on the same page!

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Not sure if your idea for a letter would be a good one. Personally I wouldn't want anyone to have more information about me than I need them to have and by giving them your name and address you just did so. As to getting the OC issue advertised trust me the DA's office already know all about it. As for the media in general they are not pro gun so if you were to put out a letter it would more than likely be twisted in to a negative spin.

Best advice I can give you when it comes to open carrying is this.

1. Make sure you have a digital voice recorder with FRESH BATTERIES.

2. Have plenty of flyers with you stating that unloaded open carry is legal.

3. Best to carry in LARGE groups of at least 10. Although this does not guarantee staying safe from being stopped.

4. Better double and triple check where all public, private, and charter schools are in relation to where you are going to carry.

5. Make sure to have the number of a good gun lawyer on your cell phone as well as a family member or friend also having said number in case the worst happens and you wind up behind bars.

6. If the worst does happen have enough money saved up to pay for said lawyer.

7. If you do end up with a contact with an LEO keep your cool first and foremost.

8. Do not volunteer anymore information than needed and if you feel forced make sure you say so when you do give in. (only if you feel forced in to giving in)

9. If at all possible make sure you have at least one NON carrying friend that can be a witness if things go wrong and if possible make sure they have a digital still or digital video camera.

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Can I buy you a cup of coffee (while armed?). Donuts would be optional ....

Bull Frog :celebrate


About all the above ..... I will get a recorder ... I get tomatoe juice at Small Fart on a regular basis, so please forgive my poetry. Is a small fart too large to give up deviled eggs? Can egg farts ever smell sweet? Can one mix too much mustard and mayo into the yolks? Is the yolk ever on you? What about pickle relish, et cetera .... :what:

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jeffw wrote:

All those who said it was a bad idea to contact the local PDs, please form a line for your "I told you so".

A very non-professional Sgt. Tran (head of SWAT) called me today to ask a few more questions. These were mainly about why I was going to carry, and where I might frequent while carrying. While on the phone my girlfriend was with me and she was applying for a job. A natural part of this is giving your name... You guessed it, he overhead. He thanked me for my time and hung up.

I get to work and my girlfriend calls me saying there was a police officer at her house when she got there. He took down all of her information and her brother's. He asked loads of questions about my mental state. Then he suggested that one day I could snap and shoot everyone. Awesome.

I called Sgt. Tran back and tried to straighten things out. He said that if they get a report of a man with a gun, they'll have at least four on duty officers dispatched, and possibly SWAT. He says that while I might be sane today, I might snap tomorrow and go on a rampage. Even while answering his questions, he was constantly interrupting me. I ended the call after telling him that I did not appreciate being interrupted... multiple times. I told him to have a nice day and that I'd call back tomorrow. Apparently he won't be in tomorrow. I'm fine with that, I'll just speak with a lieutenant.

I don't believe it is in my best interest, or anyone else for that matter, to carry in Milpitas.

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Maybe everybody should OC in Milpitas.

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Santa Clara is monitoring your posts. MR Pierce please make it very clear to this Pd station that this is unacceptable and all of us encourge friendly and educating converstaions but monitoring should not be tolerated at all.

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I was going to open carry in my town a while back so I e-mailed the local PD asking them their protocol on a UOC'er. I never received a response which furthered my fear of harrasment from the PD.

Basically if they sent me documented proof of an email that they were aware of my email and the law, I would have no problem UOC'ing because I don't fear being falsely arrested. Instead they covered their bases and did not email me back.I guess I could call. I would call, make them aware the phone call is being recorded, get the name of the person your speaking to and ask them about their knowledge on open carry and the training their LEO's have on the matter. Then you will have less fear of open carrying and know if you have to walk into a courtroom you will have that recorded call.

To clarify, I did not say to tell the PD WHERE you are going to open carry or who you are, just ask them if they are knowledgable on the legality. :celebrate

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I guess this could be called "advance notice" as it turned out. I was talking with an officerin the SAPD. The officer returned a call I made afterleaving a voice mail a few weeks ago.I was asking about a different subject,


About that time I askedthe officerabout UOC in Santa Ana and if they had any experiences with anyone excersizing that right. I askedwhat type of response I would likely get from the officers, would I get drawn down on and thrown up against a cruiser?The officersaid that would most likely be the response. I then mentioned PC12031 and the growing movement towards UOC in California. Luckily I was speaking to aperson who appreciated the 2A and our limited rights in this Draconian State of Kallyfornia.

I mentioned that there were very successful outings down in San Diego and other areas I've read about on this forum and once PD's were educated, typically by the growing number of inter-departmental memos explaining the law to their officers. I kept briefing her on the efforts of UOC'ers to make sure they follow the letter of the law and at the same time educating the general public about our rights that seem to have been swept under the rug up until recently. I pointed out to her that in my opinion it would help deter possible lawlessness in a city that's fighting a continuous battle with gangs. In fact she tried to point out that the gangs could start open carrying too and at that point I mentioned that they were criminals and most had records. WHY would they even take a chance at open carrying when traditionally all the baggy pants and shirts were supposed help conceal weapons. She agreed with my point.

I then suggested that the SAPD take a look at the memos already out there and come up with their own. She was starting to think that was agood idea and promised to bring up the subject at their next management meeting. I then told her that the people that were striving to open carry legally were law abiding citzens and shouldn't be thought of as criminals like the gangs. Who knows, maybe we will have a memo and a new train of thought in the SAPD. After all they are the Orange County Seat of Government.

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Slight edit on this post....TMI :what: