imported post
BB62 wrote:
.....or just not stating "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO A WHITE (BLACK, etc.) MAN IN AMERICA!!"?
yeah, Let me know how that works for you.
- I personally feel that making a scene, or throwing the race card, or any card, is gonna create an unwanted friction, and in the end the public view will be against us for it. I do not want to come across as a radical activist to an officer and onlookers, especially if he was initially intending to let me about my business. This in effect would be me creating the environment i want by way of swaying public opinion through their observations of my behaviour. Flip side: Wouldn't it be nice, if someday, as an officerwent to talk to an OCer, some friendly stranger comes up in the OCers defence and says "he aint doin anything wrong" to the LEO. You have then won the battle here. Public, or common view will never change to our favor if we are seen or act any different from anyone else on any given subject that might create a minor contact from a LEO. If it is a minor encounter, then dang, let it be minor. Turn it into a scene by throwing cards, or making friction, give em a reason to pick on us or scrutinize us, and then blame them for a crappy encounter? This whole thing is gonna be what we make it. We have the power to change laws,sway public opinion, and even put ourselves in a good light. How are we going to do this by creating an unpopular publicreputation. In the end, we can sway public opinion, as withanything it'll probably be a "popular" opinion for a while, then simmer down to a state of normalcy. I have avoided many uncomfortable situations with an amount of civil and considerate maneuvering than by standing my ground. Now remember, this is all in the light of a minor, casual encounter. I have not been addressing reactions to an aggressive or assertive LEO. So, in the end my personal opinion stands, that "standing my ground" during an otherwise minor encounter runs the risk of escalating the LEO's efforts to find something wrong. I might refuse ID, and walk away (politely) as it is my right, but then analyse the LEO's feeling and opinion of you, and how that affects the next counter with you (maybe on a tail light stop), or how it affects the next OCer he encounters. The grass that sticks up gets cut first, And i have no desire to stick out or seem any different from any other person that officer approaches.....yes... i want OC to be normal as apple pie, and cops dont bug people for eating pie.
- If we want the LEO to change their way, then we need to be contacting their supervisors and Captains, and encouraging them to train on these subjects, and reinforce our rights from the top down. Rather than creating friction at the bottom, we end up greasing the wheel and makes it smoother before any encounter happens. This also shows our own civil muscle and improves the situation vastly. By holding the leadership accountable for the officers actions, you end up reinforcing our rights and motivating the officers to "do it right" rather than us trying to use the "consent" in an effort to avoid confrontation angle. But current state of affair, we have not taken those steps, we have allowed these situations to remain stagnant, and we now want to stand our ground at ground level.
- If your tire is dragging and starts to smoke, suspect the brakes or bearings before you suspect the treads....... Most officers are "ground level" operators like you and me. Creating friction at our level does no good, and wont fix anything. Trying to eliminate friction at our "OCer-to-Officer "level is a temporary fix, and I am first to acknowledge this. Reach up and fix the breaks, get the supervisors and trainers involved, and then the whole thing starts moving smoother for everyone.
-- Sorry if my original comment was rude, i just really hate card throwing - it's helps no one.
- it is OK to disagree with me, again, this is my personal opinion.
Bat
