• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

OC in county forest without hunting license

Nutczak

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
2,165
Location
The Northwoods, lakeland area, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

Shotgun wrote:
I can't see why the DNR would have any more reason to suspect one is hunting illegally simply because one is armed, than they would to suspect that a person is robbing an establishment because they walk past it while armed. Can anyone point to an actual example where one was charged or convicted of illegal hunting without there being something else to corroborate the charge, e.g., an animal carcass?

I cannot provide a linkable cite, I am basing my statements from the typical behavior witnesses by me of our local DNR wardens, and verbal conversations with them and myself along withothers.
I friend of mine who immigrated here from the peoples republic of Ill-Annoy had a situation while gathering firewood on state land with the proper permits.
He had a run-in with an irate local that threatened him with a chainsaw. He spoke of this and asked a superior at the local DNR station aboutthe legality ofhim carrying a firearm for defensive purposes, the warden clearly stated he would be cited for hunting without a license even if he had the gun fully holstered. I showed him proof otherwise, and offered to accompany him while armed thenext time he goes out for wood. I basically dare a DNR warden to wrongfully cite me for exercising my 2A rights in this state.

All I am stating is that a citation may be receieved from a warden, I know carrying a firearm is legal, the police know it is legal, we all know it is legal.
But the DNR with their holier than thou attitude may cite someone wrongfully just to throw their weight around or a warden may have a dislike of someone exercising their rights just as what happened with the instructor in the west side of the state teaching his students that they have rights and the DNR does not have authority to disarm for any reason.

The WIDNR has the attitude that all lakes and land in the state belongs to them, instead of the public as a whole. They commonly run outside of what is considered current law and very few people try to fight them on it. Things have improved since Tom Kroeplin has been seperated from the DNR, but not as much as it should.
 

Support The 2nd

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
132
Location
, ,
imported post

Yep, in Wisconsin the DNR overrules the constitution or so they think.

You need to harass your representatives like you did with OC, and get them to go after the AG. Maybe THIS AG will stomp the DNR back to their place, but that guy running for AG (who headed the DNR) will definitely say the DNR overrules the constitution.
 

Hillmann

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
271
Location
Cameron, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

Here is the definition of hunt or hunting from the Wisconsin statute 29.001(42)
(42) "Hunt" or "hunting" includes shooting, shooting at, pursuing, taking, capturing or killing or attempting to capture or kill any wild animal.


That is not the definition I have seen in one of the regulations pamphlets whar they include the intention of doint it as well but so far I have been unable to find it.
 

BJA

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
503
Location
SOuth Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

Hillman if you have any problem with any warden or anything. While carrying a rifle pistol, muzzleloader, or shotgun let me know. YOU CAN DO IT! Don't worry one bit!! lol to not carry because of fear of arrest for doing nothing wrong or illegal is not worth nor being able to protect yourself.

Trust me on this, a common sense warden will not bother you. I am a BIG outdoorsmen and carry as I please. Whether it's scouting, running, or fishing or just hunting I ALWAYS have a gun on me.


Nutczak said "I basically dare a DNR warden to wrongfully cite me for exercising my 2A rights in this state."

AMEN TO THAT!!



Stay safe!



Ben
 

Geoff

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
180
Location
Ozaukee Co., Wisconsin, USA
imported post

Nutczak wrote:
The only place it specifically states a person cannot be armed is the 24 hour period before the start of gun-deer season.
I know this is a state law, but I haven't seen it anywhere other than the deer hunting hand book. Can someone please give me the section number for it?

Thanks,

Geoff
 

Geoff

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
180
Location
Ozaukee Co., Wisconsin, USA
imported post

BJA wrote:
I go jogging with a firearm in southern kettlemoraine, I'll be dammed if some prick is going to pull "you must be poaching you have a gun".

...


Ben

Isn't kettle moraine a state park, and therfore illegal to carry? I'm curious because I'm going hiking there next week.





Geoff
 

BJA

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
503
Location
SOuth Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

Naw it's a state forest, and most places almost all are good places to carry. I always carry there even when scouting, I usually coyote hunt there. SKM is rigth next to the area we picked up too!



Ben
 

Hillmann

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
271
Location
Cameron, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

Everyone is saying that it is not illegal, but when has that ever stoped a game warden they are famous for stopping everyone they can to check there papers weathe its hunting lisence, fishing lisence, wood harvest permit, boat regrestration, atv regrestration, checking live wells, and probley hundreds of other things that arn't as common. And they don't care about RAS or Probable cause or illegal serch and seasure. they just do what they want and no one fights them on it to put them in there placemostly cause it's cheaper and much less hassle to give them consente to search you and pay any fines than to fight it.

Althoug I am just as guilty of this as anyone last night I was stoped by a game warden for the first time ever in the USA. when he asked for my "papers" I was originaly going to ask for RAS but before he got to us my friend reminded me that I don't have stickers on my boat so I should just go along with it. I'm wondering if once I showed him the boat had current regstration just didn't have stickers yet could I have then demanded RAS before showing him my fishing lisence or once he had RAS (no stickers) for one thing he could check for other violations as well or dose he need RAS for each thing he want's to check.

I know this last part has nothing to do with oc but it kinda fits the thread.
 

Nutczak

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
2,165
Location
The Northwoods, lakeland area, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

If you are fishing, I believe they do have the legal ability to check for a license, Even though our state constitution says it isour guaranteed right to be able to hunt and fish in the state, it is still a revocable privilage.

As long as we are DNR bashing,
I have seen wardens cite mothers and fathers for casting a line for their children, just casting, not reeling fishin, Just letting the kid fish (no license needed if under the age of 16) and trying to teach them how to cast, or casting for them. it usually involves a mickey mouse, scooby-Doo,or spongebob decorated zebco rod & reel.

I have refused to open my rod lockers and live wells, I have also refused them boarding onto my boat when they requested it. I asked what their probable cause was. I usually got a dumbfounded look which was followed by some angry stares.
I have been harrassed enough by the pricks in the past, I have had enough.
 

Hillmann

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
271
Location
Cameron, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

I think we need a thread just to complain about the DNR.

Although almost all of my encounters with a game warden were because I had a question about something that may be legal and all but one time he had to research the law before being able to answer me and even than the answer was usualy Just to be on the safe sideyou probly shouldn't do it or something along those lines.
 

Hillmann

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
271
Location
Cameron, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

found this and thought it was worth posting

29.921Warrants; arrests; police powers.
(1)Generally. The department and its wardens may execute and serve warrants and processes issued under any law enumerated in [ss. 23.50 (1)[/url], ]167.31[/url], ]346.19[/url], ]940.24[/url],]941.20[/url],]948.60[/url], []948.605[/url] and [948.61[/url] in the same manner as any constable may serve and execute the process; and may arrest, with or without a warrant, any person detected in the actual violation, or whom the officer has probable cause to believe is guilty of a violation of any of the laws cited in this subsection, whether the violation is punishable by criminal penalties or by forfeiture, and may take the person before any court in the county where the offense was committed and make a proper complaint. For the purpose of enforcing any of the laws cited in this subsection, any officer may stop and board any boat and stop any vehicle, if the officer reasonably suspects there is a violation of those sections.


Sounds like they are way over steping there boundries.
 

smithman

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
718
Location
Waukesha, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

Unfortunately a game warden is the ultimate power job. When it's just you and him in the woods, guess who a judge will believe when there are no witnesses.

When I was younger a Michigan game warden checked our boat out on the lake and asked consent to search it briefly. Of course my sheepish parents granted permission but it's not like a family of 5 with 3 kids is going to be committing crimes. But it is the ultimate power position, if someone's on a boat they have nowhere to go.
 

JimE

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
46
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

It seems the DNR has regulatory and enforcement powers....just like the coast guard which pretty much makes them more powerful than any other agency. Regulatory powers allow them todo compliancechecks (ie: got fishing licenses, life vests, etc.) but then if they see a violation theyturn around andnail you for it.

I haven't heard of too many stories of peoplechallenging the DNR and living totell the story:p. I'm curious to hear more about refusing to allow them to search you rod lockers and such. Did they actually go away and leave you alone? What would constitute RAS for fishing without a license?
 

Doug Huffman

Banned
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,180
Location
Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
imported post

Hillmann wrote:
JimE wrote:
What would constitute RAS for fishing without a license?
It should be the same as deiving a car, they can only check your license after seeing you do some other violation.
Driving is a privilege while hunting and fishing is a right.

Right to fish, hunt, trap, and take game. SECTION 26. [As created April 2003] The people have the right to fish, hunt, trap, and take game subject only to reasonable restrictions as prescribed by law. [2001 J.R. 16, 2003 J.R. 8, vote April 2003]

The law infringes the right with 'reasonable restrictions' on hunting, fishing, trapping and taking game but it cannot disbar you of your Fourth and Fifth Amendment Rights (to be secure in your person and to not be required to incriminate yourself).

Searches and seizures. SECTION 11. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated; and no warrant shall issue but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized.
Prosecutions; double jeopardy; self−incrimination; bail; habeas corpus. SECTION 8. [As amended Nov. 1870 and April 1981] (1) No person may be held to answer for a criminal offense without due process of law, and no person for the same offense may be put twice in jeopardy of punishment, nor may be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself or herself.
 

Hillmann

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
271
Location
Cameron, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

Doug Huffman wrote:
Searches and seizures. SECTION 11. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated; and no warrant shall issue but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized.

I acutaly have the 4 th amendment printed and laminated in my wallet, next time I get stoped by a wardenI will question him about that ,but I wont really push if he still demands papers I will ask for his ID then give him my lisence whell saying I don't concent to this search and file an offical complaint if necessary.
 

Lammie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
907
Location
, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

Rules and regulations governing county forests would probably be under jurisdiction of the specific county and found in the county administrative code although I believe some countiesdefer control of hunting and firearms to the DNR. The best source of information more than likely would be the county forestry administrator. Each county is apt to be different.

State forests are definitely under management by the DNR. The following are excerpts related to this thread as found on page 35 of the 2008 deer hunting regulations.

State Owned & Managed Lands (including State Forests).

It is illegal to:

. hunt or possess any firearm or bow in any wildlife refuge or possess any firearm, air gun, slingshot or bow in any state park, state fish hatchery, or within 100 yards of any state coampground or picnic area (except as posted open to deer or small game hunting) unless it is unloaded and enclosed in a carrying case, or in the case of a bow/crossbow, unstrung or enclosed in a carrying case.

. possess any loaded or uncased firearm or air gun while within the external boundary of state-owned lands posted with department signs in Dane, Dodge, Fond du Lac, Jefferson, Juneau, Kenosha, LaCrosse, Milwaukee,Outagamie, Ozauke, Racine, Sauk, Sheboygan, Walworth, Washington, Waukesha, Winnebago counties or state forest lands in the Kettle Moraine or Point Beach state forests, state recreation areas or on state trails established on abandoned railroad grades, except as follows:

1.while engaged in hunting in accordance with the open seasons listed in this pamphlet or the small game or migratory bird regulation pamphlets.

2. while shooting at an established target range (this is the only target shooting permitted on state lands).

It appears that if one is to carry a loaded uncased firearm in state forests there must be an ongoing hunting season, they must have an appropriate license and the firearm must be legal for the game hunted. I'm not sure how exception 1 would play out concerning animals, such as possum and other unprotected animals, for which there is no closed season.

In regards to the DNR authority. The DNR has more power than God.


29.014Rule-making for this chapter.
(1) The department shall establish and maintain open and closed seasons for fish and game and any bag limits, size limits, rest days and conditions governing the taking of fish and game that will conserve the fish and game supply and ensure the citizens of this state continued opportunities for good fishing, hunting and trapping.

(2)
(b) All of the rules promulgated under this chapter are prima facie reasonable and lawful until found to be otherwise in a final determination by a court. (my emphasis)

(c) Any reference to this chapter includes any rules promulgated under this chapter and any reference to any provision of this chapter includes any rules promulgated under that provision.

(3) Any rule of the department is subject to review in the manner provided in ch. 227 except that if the rule affects only the county in which the appellant resides, the appeal shall be to the circuit court of that county.

(4) No person may challenge the validity of a rule promulgated under this chapter in any prosecution of that person for a violation of this chapter or rules promulgated under this chapter unless the person has previously brought a separate action under s. 227.40 seeking a declaratory judgment on the validity of the rule.
(my emphasis)
 
Top