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Thread: Where's the Org in Ca Open Carry Org?

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    I live in Temecula. I'd like to either participate in, or organize a local event. Personally, and don't take this the wrong way, at 55 running around collecting points for appearing in different situations does not appeal to me. Something along the lines of an organized appearance at WalMart,andlocal restaurants etc., thatappeals to me. But I'd go with the flow if that were the only venue.

    Sans a Temecula event, I'd like to participate in the next San Diego event if I'm in the area, I travel, a lot. Participate in the next one that I can and there is a decided dearth of information about the structure and objectives of the organization, scheduled events included. I say the more the better. The more open carry happens the closer CA will be to becoming a shall issue state. I am finding it difficult to expose the organization behind the website.

    I'm also not about to spout off to a LEO about "asking or demanding." I understand the purpose of that, but it's kind of like the NRA preaching to itself about gun control. It's not that edifying for most, and annoying to the officers in question. Why annoy them? I would rather be seen as understanding of their situation and cooperative, so that they may in turn grow to understand my position:what it is I am doing and why. It is important to project that, as a culture, open carry presents no threat to them. Then when they see me armed in my POV, I'm not getting the felony stop treatment.

    I open carry frequently in Temecula. If I go to the filling station late for a snack, and when I walk my dogs. One too many pit bulls and other aggressive breeds have charged me and my pets over the years. I've been doing this since the early 80s, when I lived in Imperial Beach, pit bull central USA. I wasn't about to have my kid or my pet taken out by a 60 lb dog. I was never approached by law enforcement. And no citizen has ever said boo to me. I think it has mostly to do with how you carry yourself. If you don't pay attention to it, neither will most other people.

    This is human nature. If you buy a $3,500.00 Omega Seamaster watch and put it on, 9 times outten somebody will say something when its new. It's not that it doesn't look like a three thousand dollar watch a year later - it's that you pay attention to it unconsciously when you first put it on. It’s different and special. The same goes with rings. When I first put on my undergraduate ring I got a couple of comments, same with mypost-grad ring, and the same thing happened when I first put on a Masonic ring, and in every case after the first couple of comments, no one every said anything again. The furtive attention we pay to ourselves is noticed by others in every way and regarding all things. Guns arehard not to think about, but I've been armed more often than not,as have all the men in my family, forever, so I really don't pay it much mind. Apparently, neither does anyone else.

    I support what you all are doing. I have preached against open carry in shall issue States and I will continue to take that stance. It does, as CalGuns posits, raise an alarm among those citizens who're not part of the gun culture. Doing that without just cause (in a shall issue State) is foolish. Rising awareness in a may issue State is a different matter. In that case I am ok with it and I think it will actually have a positive effect. The Reader's article seems to reflect that. The Reader is not as Libertarian as liberal in the American sense of those words. A wide spread open carry movement will have a positive impact, so long as the movement itself is positive in its execution of demonstration. All it takes is one whack-job to make the whole thing goSouth. The media will be vigilant for that instance, thataggravated arrest, that shouting match with the uninformed hot-head citizen.

    I would recommend what structure there is enjoin the body as a whole to be even more vigilant andself-policing in as positive a fashion as possible, but where necessary to report abnormal behavior if and when it becomes apparent. To think that we're immune from the foibles of human nature is folly. As we always used to say in the Old Navy, "you always have your 12%." Meaning, 12% of the people who respond to this movement will be of questionable nature. If only it weren’t so; but in my anecdotal experience, that's an accurate assumption.I would also recommend making membership or being part of the organization a little more transparent on the website. Although, that may be how people are vetted. Nobody is going to ask you to be a Mason. Perhaps this is an instance of the same sort of vetting.

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    Welcome daves_daily,

    You voice here will make us stronger but vetting is for CCers

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    Welcome.

    coolusername2007 is in Temecula, I understand he is working on getting together with other OCers in his area.

    I'll have to appose the idea of creating members or a vetting process. The government has already identified me as a possible enemy of the state on many fronts. I'm a Veteran of two wars, I'm pro-life, pro-gun, pro constitution, and I'm a christian. By all these accounts the government considers me a threat to national security. With that in mind I refuse to "join" any groups by name or vetting.

    Be safe there in Temecula.

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    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    Daves, there is no Open Carry club or organization with membership that I know of in California. (If there is in other states, I am equally ignorant.) OpenCarry.org is a website owned by individuals who run this forum, which advocates open carry nationally. CaliforniaOpenCarry.org is merely a web portal for centralized access to open carry information for California citizens.

    As for the San Diego meets, those are organized by individuals, mainly pullnshoot25. Other meets in other areas are organized by other members, using this forum and CalGuns.net. The style of the meets (like the scavenger hunt in the last San Diego meet, or trash clean-ups, etc.) are just up to the individuals invlolved. Also, the "asking or demanding" language referenced in the Reader article are just what pullnshoot25 and his friends choose to do. If you feel it would be more diplomatic to be more cooperative with LEO, by all means do what you prefer.

    EDT: Side note to counter bad_ace's self ID. I'm pro-choice, pro-gun, pro-constitution, and an atheist. Let's not limit our tent size here.

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    Thanks for the replies. I think I wrote self-vetting, at least in spirit, I'm not all about fomality and such. But who among us has not been to the range and either left, or thought hard about staying because some ding-dong was playing SWAT in the next booth? I am very much a more guns, less crime kind of guy, and I think, of all the cultures I've ever been a part of, the gun culture is by far the least disconcerting of all. Still, at every gun show there's that guy, with the 1000 yard stare? I've been that guy I suppose after the Gulf War. And after my tour with the Armed Forces Police in Subic. That will make you hard. Add that persona to an OC situation and in a shall issue state where cc is the norm andoc is only warranted in the wilds. Not that I don't strap on my 7.5" Colt SAA in town and dirve to the wilds on those trips back home to VA and WV. And there the weapon can be loaded, even if you don't have a CHP. Driving I'm always OCback there, the car has a heater and an AC. Well, except if I'm wearing my Braveheart IWB, that won't print a Commander under a wife beater t-shirt

    That brings up an off-topic. How open is open? I assume that OWB is the norm. I go with that in Temecula, and wherever I travel in CA. Went to the Mustang Nationals OC. Not to the showgrounds proper, but around the hotel and such. Car wash. That was in the Bay Area and I still didn't draw any fire. In VA, where I got my first CHP, public events are off limits, like pro ball ganes and fairs.

    I digress. Thanks again for the responses. I would be interested in a Temecula event, see what the Old Towne Shooters think of the real deal? What a hoot.





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    daves_daily wrote:
    Thanks for the replies. I think I wrote self-vetting, at least in spirit, I'm not all about fomality and such...
    Thanks for the clarification. Yes, polite slap downs occur here frequently.

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    MudCamper wrote:
    Daves, there is no Open Carry club or organization with membership that I know of in California. (If there is in other states, I am equally ignorant.) OpenCarry.org is a website owned by individuals who run this forum, which advocates open carry nationally. CaliforniaOpenCarry.org is merely a web portal for centralized access to open carry information for California citizens.

    As for the San Diego meets, those are organized by individuals, mainly pullnshoot25. Other meets in other areas are organized by other members, using this forum and CalGuns.net. The style of the meets (like the scavenger hunt in the last San Diego meet, or trash clean-ups, etc.) are just up to the individuals invlolved. Also, the "asking or demanding" language referenced in the Reader article are just what pullnshoot25 and his friends choose to do. If you feel it would be more diplomatic to be more cooperative with LEO, by all means do what you prefer.

    EDT: Side note to counter bad_ace's self ID. I'm pro-choice, pro-gun, pro-constitution, and an atheist. Let's not limit our tent size here.
    Thanks for clearing all that up. Are you an upper camel case Atheist, or you just don't believe in God? What a tangle you'd be in if you were. Can't think of a single pro-gun big A I've ever met before. But good on you - you believe whatever you want so long as it doesn't take from me or mine brother.

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    bad_ace wrote:
    Welcome.

    coolusername2007 is in Temecula, I understand he is working on getting together with other OCers in his area.

    I'll have to appose the idea of creating members or a vetting process. The government has already identified me as a possible enemy of the state on many fronts. I'm a Veteran of two wars, I'm pro-life, pro-gun, pro constitution, and I'm a christian. By all these accounts the government considers me a threat to national security. With that in mind I refuse to "join" any groups by name or vetting.

    Be safe there in Temecula.
    One man's enemy to the Constitution is another's Patriot. You'd be mine.

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    daves_daily...as bad_ace said, I'm in Temecula. PM me if you want to meet for coffee or join in the upcoming Bass Pro Shop UOC event I've been organizing.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    daves_daily wrote:
    I live in Temecula. I'd like to either participate in, or organize a local event. Personally, and don't take this the wrong way, at 55 running around collecting points for appearing in different situations does not appeal to me. Something along the lines of an organized appearance at WalMart,andlocal restaurants etc., thatappeals to me. But I'd go with the flow if that were the only venue.

    That was the first event of that kind ever. Most of our events are a little more cohesive.

    Sans a Temecula event, I'd like to participate in the next San Diego event if I'm in the area, I travel, a lot. Participate in the next one that I can and there is a decided dearth of information about the structure and objectives of the organization, scheduled events included. I say the more the better. The more open carry happens the closer CA will be to becoming a shall issue state. I am finding it difficult to expose the organization behind the website.

    I'm also not about to spout off to a LEO about "asking or demanding." I understand the purpose of that, but it's kind of like the NRA preaching to itself about gun control. It's not that edifying for most, and annoying to the officers in question. Why annoy them? I would rather be seen as understanding of their situation and cooperative, so that they may in turn grow to understand my position:what it is I am doing and why. It is important to project that, as a culture, open carry presents no threat to them. Then when they see me armed in my POV, I'm not getting the felony stop treatment.

    Its about not waiving your 4th amendment rights. Standing on your Constitutional rights is not an annoyance, but cops coming out and harassing me for no reason is definitely an annoyance. I don't suggest cooperation, only compliance. They don't have to understand and they make sure that they don't. Cops are not there to be your friend, they are there to arrest you. Yes, I know there are cops on this board that are friends, but exceptions to the rule do not make the rule void.

    My brother got the felony stop treatment for standing in one place. You are not immune if you "cooperate"

    See Busted! A Civilian's Guide to Police Encounters for more information.


    I open carry frequently in Temecula. If I go to the filling station late for a snack, and when I walk my dogs. One too many pit bulls and other aggressive breeds have charged me and my pets over the years. I've been doing this since the early 80s, when I lived in Imperial Beach, pit bull central USA. I wasn't about to have my kid or my pet taken out by a 60 lb dog. I was never approached by law enforcement. And no citizen has ever said boo to me. I think it has mostly to do with how you carry yourself. If you don't pay attention to it, neither will most other people.

    That seems to be the case normally. However, I hate polo shirts.

    This is human nature. If you buy a $3,500.00 Omega Seamaster watch and put it on, 9 times outten somebody will say something when its new. It's not that it doesn't look like a three thousand dollar watch a year later - it's that you pay attention to it unconsciously when you first put it on. It’s different and special. The same goes with rings. When I first put on my undergraduate ring I got a couple of comments, same with mypost-grad ring, and the same thing happened when I first put on a Masonic ring, and in every case after the first couple of comments, no one every said anything again. The furtive attention we pay to ourselves is noticed by others in every way and regarding all things. Guns arehard not to think about, but I've been armed more often than not,as have all the men in my family, forever, so I really don't pay it much mind. Apparently, neither does anyone else.

    I support what you all are doing. I have preached against open carry in shall issue States and I will continue to take that stance. It does, as CalGuns posits, raise an alarm among those citizens who're not part of the gun culture. Doing that without just cause (in a shall issue State) is foolish. Rising awareness in a may issue State is a different matter. In that case I am ok with it and I think it will actually have a positive effect. The Reader's article seems to reflect that. The Reader is not as Libertarian as liberal in the American sense of those words. A wide spread open carry movement will have a positive impact, so long as the movement itself is positive in its execution of demonstration. All it takes is one whack-job to make the whole thing goSouth. The media will be vigilant for that instance, thataggravated arrest, that shouting match with the uninformed hot-head citizen.

    OC in a shall issue state shouldn't be alarming. Take a look at Arizona, Nevada, Virginia, etc.

    Its about having the option to not beg permission.

    I would recommend what structure there is enjoin the body as a whole to be even more vigilant andself-policing in as positive a fashion as possible, but where necessary to report abnormal behavior if and when it becomes apparent. To think that we're immune from the foibles of human nature is folly. As we always used to say in the Old Navy, "you always have your 12%." Meaning, 12% of the people who respond to this movement will be of questionable nature. If only it weren’t so; but in my anecdotal experience, that's an accurate assumption.I would also recommend making membership or being part of the organization a little more transparent on the website. Although, that may be how people are vetted. Nobody is going to ask you to be a Mason. Perhaps this is an instance of the same sort of vetting.

    Weeds and wheat...

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    But good on you - you believe whatever you want so long as it doesn't take from me or mine brother.
    My feelings exactly.



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    daves_daily wrote:
    MudCamper wrote:
    EDT: Side note to counter bad_ace's self ID. I'm pro-choice, pro-gun, pro-constitution, and an atheist. Let's not limit our tent size here.
    Thanks for clearing all that up. Are you an upper camel case Atheist, or you just don't believe in God? What a tangle you'd be in if you were. Can't think of a single pro-gun big A I've ever met before. But good on you - you believe whatever you want so long as it doesn't take from me or mine brother.
    You seem to distinguish between "atheism" and "just not believing in god". I'm not sure what the difference is... perhaps you could enlighten me.

    "Theism" is the belief in a deity. Atheism is simply the opposite: a-theism, or without-theism. Simply put, an atheist is anybody who is not a theist. You either believe there is a higher power, or you don't.

    And since it seems to be the "in" thing to do, I'll add that I'm an atheist, skeptic, and libertarian. I strongly believe the Zero Aggression Principle is the key to peaceful interaction with others. I also believe the maximum useful purposes of government are: enforce contracts, prevent any person from infringing on the life, liberty, or property of another, and to organize our national defense. Oh, and I have yet to figure out the whole abortion thing; I have yet to see a logical argument from either side that proves the moment life begins.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    daves_daily wrote:
    MudCamper wrote:
    EDT: Side note to counter bad_ace's self ID. I'm pro-choice, pro-gun, pro-constitution, and an atheist. Let's not limit our tent size here.
    Thanks for clearing all that up. Are you an upper camel case Atheist, or you just don't believe in God? What a tangle you'd be in if you were. Can't think of a single pro-gun big A I've ever met before. But good on you - you believe whatever you want so long as it doesn't take from me or mine brother.
    You seem to distinguish between "atheism" and "just not believing in god". I'm not sure what the difference is... perhaps you could enlighten me.

    "Theism" is the belief in a deity. Atheism is simply the opposite: a-theism, or without-theism. Simply put, an atheist is anybody who is not a theist. You either believe there is a higher power, or you don't.

    And since it seems to be the "in" thing to do, I'll add that I'm an atheist, skeptic, and libertarian. I strongly believe the Zero Aggression Principle is the key to peaceful interaction with others. I also believe the maximum useful purposes of government are: enforce contracts, prevent any person from infringing on the life, liberty, or property of another, and to organize our national defense. Oh, and I have yet to figure out the whole abortion thing; I have yet to see a logical argument from either side that proves the moment life begins.
    Not that anyone asked, but hey. . .

    I believe I am not an atheist, but that I despise the concept of organized religion and will not participate in it.

    I am pro-choice, not because of the "life at conception" or "life at birth", but because if there is a higher being and they did give us free will and the ability to advance science and gave us the scientific advancement that is abortion then it then it is our choice to use what he gave us or not without undue pressure from another.

    As for the organization, I would like to organize us only for the purpose of being able to bring "legitimacy". While we are individuals we can be pulled apart and taken down, but as a group we may have the power, funds and support to help keep us strong and together. . . We shall stick together or we will surely hang separately.

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    pullnshoot25 wrote:
    [b]Its about not waiving your 4th amendment rights. Standing on your Constitutional rights is not an annoyance, but cops coming out and harassing me for no reason is definitely an annoyance. I don't suggest cooperation, only compliance. They don't have to understand and they make sure that they don't. Cops are not there to be your friend, they are there to arrest you. Yes, I know there are cops on this board that are friends, but exceptions to the rule do not make the rule void.
    QFT.

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    I know I helped start it, but lets try not to treadjack this into a religious discussion. I responded to bad_ace's statement, but intentionally did not answer any of dave's followup questions to avoid totally derailing the thread.


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    daves_daily wrote:
    I live in Temecula. I'd like to either participate in, or organize a local event. Personally, and don't take this the wrong way, at 55 running around collecting points for appearing in different situations does not appeal to me. Something along the lines of an organized appearance at WalMart,andlocal restaurants etc., thatappeals to me. But I'd go with the flow if that were the only venue.

    Sans a Temecula event, I'd like to participate in the next San Diego event if I'm in the area, I travel, a lot. Participate in the next one that I can and there is a decided dearth of information about the structure and objectives of the organization, scheduled events included. I say the more the better. The more open carry happens the closer CA will be to becoming a shall issue state. I am finding it difficult to expose the organization behind the website.

    I'm also not about to spout off to a LEO about "asking or demanding." I understand the purpose of that, but it's kind of like the NRA preaching to itself about gun control. It's not that edifying for most, and annoying to the officers in question. Why annoy them? I would rather be seen as understanding of their situation and cooperative, so that they may in turn grow to understand my position:what it is I am doing and why. It is important to project that, as a culture, open carry presents no threat to them. Then when they see me armed in my POV, I'm not getting the felony stop treatment.

    I open carry frequently in Temecula. If I go to the filling station late for a snack, and when I walk my dogs. One too many pit bulls and other aggressive breeds have charged me and my pets over the years. I've been doing this since the early 80s, when I lived in Imperial Beach, pit bull central USA. I wasn't about to have my kid or my pet taken out by a 60 lb dog. I was never approached by law enforcement. And no citizen has ever said boo to me. I think it has mostly to do with how you carry yourself. If you don't pay attention to it, neither will most other people.

    This is human nature. If you buy a $3,500.00 Omega Seamaster watch and put it on, 9 times outten somebody will say something when its new. It's not that it doesn't look like a three thousand dollar watch a year later - it's that you pay attention to it unconsciously when you first put it on. It’s different and special. The same goes with rings. When I first put on my undergraduate ring I got a couple of comments, same with mypost-grad ring, and the same thing happened when I first put on a Masonic ring, and in every case after the first couple of comments, no one every said anything again. The furtive attention we pay to ourselves is noticed by others in every way and regarding all things. Guns arehard not to think about, but I've been armed more often than not,as have all the men in my family, forever, so I really don't pay it much mind. Apparently, neither does anyone else.

    I support what you all are doing. I have preached against open carry in shall issue States and I will continue to take that stance. It does, as CalGuns posits, raise an alarm among those citizens who're not part of the gun culture. Doing that without just cause (in a shall issue State) is foolish. Rising awareness in a may issue State is a different matter. In that case I am ok with it and I think it will actually have a positive effect. The Reader's article seems to reflect that. The Reader is not as Libertarian as liberal in the American sense of those words. A wide spread open carry movement will have a positive impact, so long as the movement itself is positive in its execution of demonstration. All it takes is one whack-job to make the whole thing goSouth. The media will be vigilant for that instance, thataggravated arrest, that shouting match with the uninformed hot-head citizen.

    I would recommend what structure there is enjoin the body as a whole to be even more vigilant andself-policing in as positive a fashion as possible, but where necessary to report abnormal behavior if and when it becomes apparent. To think that we're immune from the foibles of human nature is folly. As we always used to say in the Old Navy, "you always have your 12%." Meaning, 12% of the people who respond to this movement will be of questionable nature. If only it weren’t so; but in my anecdotal experience, that's an accurate assumption.I would also recommend making membership or being part of the organization a little more transparent on the website. Although, that may be how people are vetted. Nobody is going to ask you to be a Mason. Perhaps this is an instance of the same sort of vetting.
    Ding dong - Your verbage is like sour cabbage - worthy only of kim chi, a hot cabbage salad, which nobody listens to, only eats with caution ....

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    This is human nature. If you buy a $3,500.00 Omega Seamaster watch and put it on, 9 times outten somebody will say something when its new. It's not that it doesn't look like a three thousand dollar watch a year later - it's that you pay attention to it unconsciously when you first put it on. It’s different and special. The same goes with rings. When I first put on my undergraduate ring I got a couple of comments, same with mypost-grad ring, and the same thing happened when I first put on a Masonic ring, and in every case after the first couple of comments, no one every said anything again. The furtive attention we pay to ourselves is noticed by others in every way and regarding all things. Guns arehard not to think about, but I've been armed more often than not,as have all the men in my family, forever, so I really don't pay it much mind. Apparently, neither does anyone else.

    Would you like us to comment on your watch and rings now?

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    Atheism, with a capitol A, is an ism, a belief system in and of itself, a philosophy. When I was a kid growing up in the South the further South you went on I-95, past say, Richmond, the more Klan signs you saw. Sometimes there were large billboards that announced, "Join the Klan, fight N-words, Jews and Catholics. This was during the Kennedy administration that was common. I wasn't a Catholic then, but I am now, and I believed then as I do now - therefore I was at odds with the Democratic majority where I lived, and a target of their radicalized racist organizations on that basis. There were others. One was HQ'd in Arlington, White People's Socialist Party I think it was called, they actually air dropped leaflets on my middle school after the King assassination.

    I can understand not believing in God. But Atheists, of the organized card carrying sort, think me and everyone who believes, regardless of the anecdotal or personal basis of that belief, or the depths of knowledge that supports belief in apologetic terms, large A Atheists think believers are more than less enlightened, superstitious, fantastical-magical thinkers who're duped, brainwashed, or just plain ignorant. And in consideration of what has been done in the name of God or the gods, they have a point. And there are many shades of atheism, running from simple non-belief to organized debunking, name calling and the anti-God movement in America. Mt. Soledad comes to mind. But, that's small change compared to thefull agenda. It goes all they up to re-orientation, book burning, rock-ribbed hate.

    On the other hand, all of that can be found happening in the name of God as well. I've always believed. There was never a time that I didn't know there is a God. So, Faith is native to me, not to my family so much, my parents never attended church for long before the hypocrisy disillusioned them. I came up with that skeptical view of organized religion as a whole. The condemnation. The holier than thou stuff that goes on in some religious circles. There's a big difference, in my mind, between a belief either way, and actions that exclude, that punish, that attempt to make one class of people "less than" another. It's not so different with the gun issue. I would be completely comfortable wearing concealedlarge bore handgun while taking Communion. To me, it is just an object. Mostly an object of art. Faith is something with me all the time, but I don't wear it on my sleeve, and I prefer not to wear guns in the open either. Except when a statement needs to be made. Or, when the social context is amenable - like in Arizona, Texas bbq, and in some parts of Virginia/WV. There's a big difference between Old Town Alexandria and rural Manassas, or Charleston, and Charles Town...

    I served under a CO once who was a big A Atheist. I observed him singling out officers who were conspicuous believers for special administrative "attention" on more than a few ocassion. Maybe a coincidence, I don't know. But he was a scientist, and science was his god and his apologetic proof that god does not exist. And God may not exist. There is no proof that there is one monotheistic God. But what I sense, and what I observe, particularly in the synchronicity evident in everyday life, that God does indeed exist. Is Christ God, the Son of God, etc? As a Christian I make a pretty good Jew. But I still believe in Christ - I do not believe in assured salvation. If you are converted, and therefore convicted that Christ is the Son of God, and that His sacrifice is your salvation then you must change. When you change back, you no longer believe, you can die in a state of mortal sin.

    Does that mean that in my view you'd therefore go to Hell? No. There is no passage in the New Testament where Christ says you are assured salvation because you believed once upon a time. There are times where He granted salvation to someone who simply demonstrated Faith alone, devoid of theology. That's not the message, not The Gospel, The Good News. The message is you can go to Heaven, but you must believe, change, and act always on that conviction. And it must be affirmed, constantly. Now, that is MY belief in a nutshell and it is about 180 degrees out from most Christians. Therefore I assume there are all sorts of Atheists as well. I just wonder if most people are aware that self-identification as an Atheist carries a belief system with it, as does self-identification as a "Christian." Obviously some do and some just don't believe and use the word because there isn't another term that simply states disbelief. Just like some people claim to be Christians whose actions do not always reflect Christ's teachings. Including me, and I think most Christians, we're not God, we are not theJudge of anyone's salvation or the relative weight of their Faith as it influences them, or God.


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    AyatollahGondola wrote:
    This is human nature. If you buy a $3,500.00 Omega Seamaster watch and put it on, 9 times outten somebody will say something when its new. It's not that it doesn't look like a three thousand dollar watch a year later - it's that you pay attention to it unconsciously when you first put it on. It’s different and special. The same goes with rings. When I first put on my undergraduate ring I got a couple of comments, same with mypost-grad ring, and the same thing happened when I first put on a Masonic ring, and in every case after the first couple of comments, no one every said anything again. The furtive attention we pay to ourselves is noticed by others in every way and regarding all things. Guns arehard not to think about, but I've been armed more often than not,as have all the men in my family, forever, so I really don't pay it much mind. Apparently, neither does anyone else.


    Would you like us to comment on your watch and rings now?
    Just making a point. My wife gave me my college rings and I went through a few Masonic rings before I stopped wearing them. College is something that was never supposed to be for me. First generation that grew up with indoor plumbing in my family. My father was a boiler engineer who set up plants and then moved on to the next job, and me to the next school. 5 grade schools, 2 middle schools, three high schools. Have you seen "Remember the Titans," I was there. I was at Francis C. Hammond before that and did one year at Grantsville High, Calhoun Co, WV. I dropped out, took the GED. Becoming a scholar didn't come easy, earning an advanced degree took me to the outer limits of my ability to "wing it."
    Somehow, somewhere along the way I did manage to learn. It has served me very well providing for my family and setting the pace for my 4 kids. I didn't even start until I was already a retired naval officer. Never had the time, or the place. So, I'm proud of my ring, and thankful for having had the opportunity to earn it. The watch was a Christmas present and my wife got the ring I couldn't afford when we were married - it could pay for a few Omega's.
    The really cool things that I have that I always wanted, aside from a ring that I never thought I would deserve to wear, are my guns. I build custom 1911s, and I work up heirloom quality pistols that can be and should be carried and shot, Model 40 S&W "Classics" are one of my favorites, I carry that the most in Ca. CCW I carry one of my prototypes, there's about 12. I just bought a Remington-Rand 1911A1 from Rock River Armory. Never fired, never been apart. And I'll never fire it either, to me, it's national treasure.
    No. I don't put that up there to say, "I have an expensive watch." It's just the psychology of open carry, and a discourse on what I have gathered from my own experience about why it is that some people get harassed more than others.
    I'm sorry to hear about the on guy who's brother got the felony stoptreatment.I live for the day that a gunon the waist of a law abiding citizen isnot as threatening as it is reassuring. Where do you feel more comfortable, among the un-armed, like those women who were gunned down today in their exercise class, or among the armed, who can shoot back?
    The more we carry in the open whilst not being self-conscious and therefore appearing natural in that circumstance, the more conditioned society will be to the presence of armed citizens who can defend them. It's not for everyone and I always make that point when I have discussions on carry with my less inclined friends and associates. Just because someone can carry a gun doesn't mean they will be motivated to carry. Those who do are more often than not capable of doing the right thing ina very wrong situation.

  20. #20
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    OK. Thread totally derailed now. But I guess it's your thread.

    I don't know anything about your big A atheism. I used the term only in a colloquial sense. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism )

    I do not believe in a super-being, a creator, or an afterlife, or any other additional life after this one ends. I tend to dislike most organized religions, but only for their evangelism and justification of evil deeds. I respect others' right to their own belief, so long as they don't try to force their beliefs on me, or use those beliefs to justify violating any other human beings liberties.


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    MudCamper wrote:
    OK. Thread totally derailed now. But I guess it's your thread.

    I don't know anything about your big A atheism. I used the term only in a colloquial sense. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism )

    I do not believe in a super-being, a creator, or an afterlife, or any other additional life after this one ends. I tend to dislike most organized religions, but only for their evangelism and justification of evil deeds. I respect others' right to their own belief, so long as they don't try to force their beliefs on me, or use those beliefs to justify violating any other human beings liberties.
    I totally agree. I think people who infer that others are damned because they don't belive as they doare themselves the best argument against the existence of God. What sort of God is that, that would condem creation? Condem people who've never even heard ofGod, millions of people who've lived anddied before Christ and after - or when they did it was from some lunatic ranting about condemnation? That's not for me brother. Sometimes I don't know how anybodywill come to believe when that is the prevailing message.

    I think it's a good off-topic discussionbecause it is analogous tophilosophy in general and to the wide range of views on carry in particular. Thusbringing usfull-circle back to the underlying questions all of us struggle with. Who among us has not questioned their thinking about guns, based on thefears of society - more importantly the fears and apprehensions ofour loved ones, or mothers, daughters, sons? I mean, haven't you ever felt out of sorts? WhentheRight to Bear Armsseems so natural and clear to you; but so many other perfectly reasonable people don't get it at all? When they're unsure of you because you're a "gun nut"?

    In the Navy there are a lot of gun collectors and guys, and gals, who would rather read Guns than Time magazine. Now I work for the Corps and found it ironic that out of the entire command Where Iwork I've only metone (retired) Marine who likes to talk guns. It is almost taboo. Like talking about religion, politics, or sex. It is very off-putting to most of the Marines and civilians/contractors to discuss guns at all, much less carry. A few know that I carry on my own time and there's no question in my mind but they all think that's nuts. So far nobody has concluded that I am a danger to others - but on that basis alone it is only a matter of time before I'll have to defend my integrity over the issue of carry and gun ownership - even though the command has a shooting team. It is very complemented in their minds, or that's what I gather.

    Sailors aren't often armed like Marines. Just for some watch duty and such. Sailors depend on the ship as a weapon, or on Marines that they put ashore. They fight the ship and they take the fight to the enemy via amphibious assault. SEALs are armed, but there's a lot of gun friendly SEALs. I was in Coronado for 11 years doing Special Ops stuff, not Special Warfare, I wasn't in The Teams. PSYOP, OPDEC, that sort of thing was my forte.

    I think my reason for asking you that question was to draw out your reasons for statingyou're an atheist because in the gun culture it is sort of rare, don't you think? My favorite gun shop in town is Faith Armory. Sort of puts their beliefs out front. Great group of guys who don't preach from behind the counter. But they do like to talk God and Faith. But mostly guns.

    Isn't it evident in this discussion, the total"thread" that there's all sorts. A very diverse group. Some are interested in my thoughts some think I'm a flaming @#$%. But what really sticks out is that we're not much alike from one to the other. You're being an atheist and me being a Christian that doesn't believe in preaching condemnationmakes that clear. And it makes something else clear - there is a fundamentalist cement that glues us togeather. We all believe that every law abiding American has a RIGHT to carry. You say natural right I say Divine. What's the difference at the end of the day?

    The thing that threatens our right the most is not so-called liberalism, or the Democratic Party, or HCI et al. It is complacency. If all of the gun owners had gotten out and voted one-issue in the last election McCain would have been elected Emperor for Life. I think this is true of all things political. The Greek Political Cycle is in effect and we're on the downside. Or down slide.

    "The Republic faltered in embracing The New Deal and in departing from the Gold Standard. In order for The Great Experiment to succeed both must be reversed, and we can do neither. Therefore the Constitution and theBill ofRights will fall to tyrants in the name of progress." self

  22. #22
    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    No love for the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
    Do you want to enjoy liberty in your lifetime?

    Consider moving to New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project.

    "Live Free or Die"

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    wewd wrote:
    No love for the Flying Spaghetti Monster
    ?
    YAR! (in case i didn't spell it right, that's pirate-talk for "yes"; for those naive on this topic - pirates are the FSM's 'chosen people'.)
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
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    Don't Tread On Me.

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    jpierce wrote:
    2) Since we are a site dedicated to open carry, firearms and gun rights, all posts should relate substantially to one of these topics, even if your comments pertain mainly to freedom and liberty. OCDO is not a general discussion forum on politics, religion, the current President, etc. Take that somewhere else!
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum1/1.html

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    N6ATF wrote:
    jpierce wrote:
    2) Since we are a site dedicated to open carry, firearms and gun rights, all posts should relate substantially to one of these topics, even if your comments pertain mainly to freedom and liberty. OCDO is not a general discussion forum on politics, religion, the current President, etc. Take that somewhere else!
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum1/1.html
    You're right; we're way off topic here. (And I'll take some of that blame...)

    Let's avoid religion (or lack thereof) before someone gets offended and this becomes uncivil.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
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    Don't Tread On Me.

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