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Thread: New to OC and would like your views

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    I recently spent about 5 hours over the last couple of days reading all the stories from everyone's OC experiences and generally most of them were positive with the exception of a few horror stories about misinformed LEO's and some in the general public that hit the panic button for no reason.

    I do understand peoples reactions as we just live in that kind of world these days unfortunately. I also am happy to see that people are OC'ing because the law says that we can. I have to ask though is it worth it ? I understand that we can and it's good that we can but is the potential hassle worth it ? I myself have a CPL/CCW and am proud to have one. I assume it's a matter of choice to the individual, but for me I just don't want to be bothered most of the time. It's nice that I have the option to OC should I choose to, but from the stories I read it seems like it would be inviting attention that I really would rather not have. Just my 2 cents, I would like to hear anyone's thoughts on this. Am I misguided in my thoughts or am I just becoming a cranky old man not wanting to be bothered ?


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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Only you can decide whether or not it's worth it. Many here feel it is, but some don't and just enjoy the fact that others do. There is nothing wrong with either view point.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Fair enough, I appreciate your input. Thank you

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    I feel it's worth the attention for the ability to educate people that not just BG's and nuts carry guns! I too have my CPL and I like the fact that the two together allow me to carry almost everywhere in some form!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    I agree that it's good to have the option to carry either way I choose. It's sad that the media in the past has given the law abiding citizen a bad rep. I am glad to see people OC'ing, if it were up to me all people would OC period. Kind of like the old west, it would level the playing field in my opinion. I'm just new to the whole thing and at the moment I'm content to carry concealed. Perhaps over time I will OC, I just don't want to be bothered as I go through my day. I will be at the picnic in Macomb on the 15th I am hoping to talk to more people and further my own education.

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    Michigander wrote:
    Only you can decide whether or not it's worth it. Many here feel it is, but some don't and just enjoy the fact that others do. There is nothing wrong with either view point.
    That's pretty much what I would have written.

    I don't OC myself for many reasons (some of which you've mentioned). I am grateful to those who do chose to exercise their rights even more so because of my reservations.

    Just think, they face the same dilemmas about it that you and I do, yet they still do it. Because of their courage to do so, it is desensitizing the public, and LE to the idea that everyday, private citizens carry guns on a daily basis all around them. For years, these people (ours friends, family, and neighbors) have been trained/programed/brainwashed by society/media/government agents that, "only criminals and cops carry guns". By openly carrying their firearms, those who do so are gradually eroding that sterotype that is a detriment to any person who chooses to carry a firearm (be it OC or CC). The deserve not only our support, but also our gratitude.


    ETA:

    Welcome to the forum.

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    Well stated Ghostrider, I agree. Also the "brainwashing" part was spot on. As I said perhaps in the future I will change to OC, I just want to make absolutely sure I am "armed" with the facts before I venture out into this new world.

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    Hi Eryk and welcome,

    I carry both ways depending on too many variables to list here.

    I support OC and carry OC for three major reasons: tactical, social, & political.

    After much thought, consideration, & research I believe OCisusually tacticaly superior to CC. There are going to be situations when CC may have the tactical advantage but as I study the issue I'm findingthem to befewer and fewer.

    I agree with you that the media has long portrayed guns owners in a less than positive fashion. As a responsible gun owner I feel it is my duty to help educate the people around me and bring to light the fact that we are not irresponsible mouth-breathers. We are normal, respectful, friendly folks who own guns. The ONLY way for people to learn this is for them to see us out in the community being normal, respectful, and friendly WHILE IN POSSESSION OF OUR GUNS. The truth needs to brought into the light not hidden under a cover garment.

    On the political side of things I'm a believer in the idea that a right not used is a right lost. We are dealing with this problem now. OC has always been legal in MI but it went unpracticed by the vast majority of people for so long that most forgot about it. We are now struggling to bring back what should never have gone away.

    Just my take.

    Again, welcome.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    I understand your position Bronson and it makes perfect sense. I look forward to the picnic on the 15th as that will be my first OC and I'm looking forward to it. Hope to see everyone there. Hmmm, what should I bring the PPS or the Glock ? decisions decisions.

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    Eryk wrote:
    I look forward to the picnic on the 15th as that will be my first OC and I'm looking forward to it.
    I don't know whether or notyou areaware of the August 9th picnic in Auburn Hills, but you are welcome to that one as well.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Unfortunately I am not able to attend on that day I have a previous engagement, but thanks for the heads up.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Eryk wrote:
    I recently spent about 5 hours over the last couple of days reading all the stories from everyone's OC experiences and generally most of them were positive with the exception of a few horror stories about misinformed LEO's and some in the general public that hit the panic button for no reason.

    I do understand peoples reactions as we just live in that kind of world these days unfortunately. I also am happy to see that people are OC'ing because the law says that we can. I have to ask though is it worth it ? I understand that we can and it's good that we can but is the potential hassle worth it ? I myself have a CPL/CCW and am proud to have one. I assume it's a matter of choice to the individual, but for me I just don't want to be bothered most of the time. It's nice that I have the option to OC should I choose to, but from the stories I read it seems like it would be inviting attention that I really would rather not have. Just my 2 cents, I would like to hear anyone's thoughts on this. Am I misguided in my thoughts or am I just becoming a cranky old man not wanting to be bothered ?
    I'm glad our founding fathers (many that were old and cranky)were braver and risked much more than an inconvenient interaction with a LEO. You either stand up for your rights and face the slings and arrows or you are lead off to slaughter, your choice really.Some chose the slings and arrows.

    OC is getting better and easier as law enforcemt and the public arelearning that it's legal. Many fight on the front now so that the timid will not have to later.


    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    LOL, well I can see your a no B.S. kind of person and I like that. Glad to see all the responses. Thank you for your input.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    I'm glad our founding fathers (many that were old and cranky)were braver and risked much more than an inconvenient interaction with a LEO. You either stand up for your rights and face the slings and arrows or you are lead off to slaughter, your choice really.Some chose the slings and arrows.

    OC is getting better and easier as law enforcemt and the public arelearning that it's legal. Many fight on the front now so that the timid will not have to later.

    While I generally agree that many people won't do it because of being timid, there are circumstances where OCing might be too high of a risk for someone, and not reasonably permissible. For example, if someone is barely making ends meet, and has 4 kids, OCing alone in an area known to have hostile police might be too much of a risk. Some folks don't have the money, or the legal knowledge/confidence to feel comfortable OCing. I can't fault someone for that, particularly if they believe in OCing and do what they can to spread the word.

    And by the way, about the founding fathers, they took a lot more crap from the king than we have yet taken from DC before they revolted. Suspicionless search warrants for private property and attempted mass gun confiscations had to take place to piss them off, not to mention insane taxes. We're not quite there yet, but I have little doubt that millions of US gun owners are willing to die to restore order if it becomes needed in the future. The people may have laregly forgotten why the first revolution was fought, but I think the desire for freedom still remains. Even back in the 1770s, there were a lot of people who weren't very dedicated, and had to be talked into helping to fight for the future we're now attempting to do our part to protect. It seems that then, as now with OCing in Michigan, it falls on the few to try to secure the good for the many.

    But back to the topic of open carrying, if a big law suit is ever won, I think it would do a lot to boost peoples confidence if a hell of a defense fund was put in place for those being charged illegally for lawful OCing. If people KNEW they'd have free top notch assistance from a lawyer if they needed it to defend against bogus charges, I think it would do a lot to boost confidence.

    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Very well stated Michigander

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    Hi Eryk,

    I have been OCing since April. I have had one incident (that involved a bit of hassle, to which I am still dealing with to this day), but other than that one incident I have not had 1 person say ANYTHING about me OCing. I have not been the victim of a crime since I've been OCing either. Granted, I had not been the victim of a crime (other than someone breaking into my truck in a parking lot while I was not in it), but who's to say that by me OCing I may have detered some type of crime.

    If you read ALL 125 pages of the OC experiences topic, you'll notice that most of the post acctually very boring. So if you do the math on how many times people OC and have uneventful experiences compaired to the negative ones, you'll see that the positive outweighs the negative. Even if you, or other people have negative experiences with people or officers that don't like you have a firearm on your side just remember that it is your right andit gives you have a fighting chance against a criminal that might wish you harm. The police can't/won't be everywhere you are to protect you from crime...and they aren't obligated to protect you either.

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    Hi T Vance,

    I didn't read all 125 pages but I did read a majority of them and your right most are uneventful as they should be. I am curious though as to your own situation that you say your still dealing with to this day. If you could share your story I would be interested, if not I understand. There was another point I was not clear on when you stated "The police can't/won't be everywhere you are to protect you from crime...and they aren't obligated to protect you either." I thought it was their job to protect and serve ? or am I misinformed ? let me know. Thank you for your views.

    Eryk
    [img]images/spacer.gif[/img]

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    Here is a link to my incident.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/28859.html

    As far as the "police comment", police are NOT obligated to protect anyone. Their job is to investigate crimes after the fact.

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    BTW, if/when you decide to start OCing make sure you have read/know the WASH,RINSE,REPEAT thread forwards and backwards. Print a copy and keep it on you. Read it whenever you have time, even if you have already read it 20 times. This information will probably come in hand one day, and you'll regret not memorizing it after the fact. Take it from me, I read it once, and pretty much forgot what it said when I needed it. I even had a copy in my pocket that I finally pulled out towards the end of my incident, but it was too late, I had already made many mistakes in my LEO encounter. Fortunatly the LEO made several mistakes too, all of which were caught on video. Also buy yourself an audio recorder if/when you decide to start OCing. It's not for everyone, but for now at least you support it, and that's a start.



  20. #20
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Eryk wrote:
    I thought it was their job to protect and serve ?[img]images/spacer.gif[/img]
    It's a nice phrase which looks good on the patrol cars, but it does not mean "protect and serve individuals". SCOTUS and several state courts have set out numerous opinions and precedents that no law enforcement agent or agency has a duty to protect you as an individual from being victimized.

    If you legitimately feel generally threatened bysomeone else, the police are certainly not going to station an officer with you. They'll tell you to call 9-1-1 if something actually happens. Then they'll show up . . .and 99.9% of the time it's WELL AFTER after the fact and they're either taking a statement from you and/or summoning medical attention, if you're alive, or drawing chalk around you if you're dead.

    But what happensif you get lucky and you're notdead or too badly hurt yet andthe bad guy is still there with capacity to still harm or kill you? The police form a perimeter to contain the situationand most of the time seek to talk the BG out of whatever crazy things he was thinking about doing.Whichcertainly isn't the SWAT sniper bullet to the BG's head right-away, which is what I would want as an individual, if I were the one being victimized.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Wow T Vance that's a heck of a story you have there, so sad to see that some LEO's even when they realize their wrong still try to save face at the expense of law abiding citizens. Scary that these folks are supposed to be college educated.

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    "Additionally, I have taken an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all foreign and domestic enemies. What better way to fulfill that oath than to OC on a daily basis to show support for the part of the Constitution that is under attack the most?"

    You know Navy LT I myself also took that oath once and to be honest I never looked at it that way...until now, Thank you

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    You know DanM, the more I read on this site the more educated I become in addition to kicking myself in the pants for being so complacent. Thanks for the education.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Yep this is a good group of folks!! I know I learned and am still learning a bunch!!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Agreed

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