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Thread: Different spin on the OC in car by NCHP

  1. #1
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    For whatever reason my wife was surfing the NCHP site yesterday and stumbled on this. I have always been told that a locked glovebox/console was not a good idea in NC. I know that is the only way you can carry in SC without a CCP. I have also talked to folks that have interacted with LEO while having a gun in a locked glovebox with no problems. Thoughts? Although it's useless for me, neither of mine lock.

    Handguns in Vehicles

    It is unlawful to carry a concealed handgun in a vehicle unless the person has a North Carolina concealed carry permit. A person who is not a convicted felon may carry a handgun if not concealed. A handgun is concealed in a vehicle if it cannot be readily seen by a person approaching and if it is readily accessible. A handgun under the front seat or in an unlocked glove box or console is illegal. A handgun openly displayed or in a locked glove box, locked console, or in the trunk is lawful.

    http://www.nccrimecontrol.org/Index2...,000935,000941

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    A locked glove box is perfectly legal, as it makes the firearm NOT readibly accessible.

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    III. POSSESSING AND CARRYING FIREARMS

    A. Carrying Concealed Weapons

    Whether, in a given case, a weapon is concealed from the public, is a question of fact to be resolved by a jury. By using the phrase "concealed about his or her person," this law makes it illegal to have a weapon concealed not only on a person, but also within a person's convenient control and easy reach.

    D. Transporting Weapons

    While a weapon carried openly in an automobile would not be concealed, there are other problems specific to this method of carrying a weapon. The principal drawback, of course, is in the event of an individual being stopped by a law enforcement official, the officer may not readily know that individual's purpose and intent for carrying a weapon. As such, it is imperative that an individual immediately notify an officer of the presence of any weapon in the automobile, for the officer's and the vehicle's occupants' safety. Another obvious drawback is that a valuable weapon may be in plain view for potential thieves to see. The prohibition to carrying concealed weapons applies not only to handguns and other weapons commonly thought of as being easily hidden, but also to "long guns" as well. Therefore, shotguns and rifles concealed behind the seat of pickup trucks, and elsewhere in other vehicles, could similarly violate North Carolina law.


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    Redwolf wrote:


    III. POSSESSING AND CARRYING FIREARMS


    A. Carrying Concealed Weapons


    Whether, in a given case, a weapon is concealed from the public, is a question of fact to be resolved by a jury. By using the phrase "concealed about his or her person," this law makes it illegal to have a weapon concealed not only on a person, but also within a person's convenient control and easy reach.

    D. Transporting Weapons


    While a weapon carried openly in an automobile would not be concealed, there are other problems specific to this method of carrying a weapon. The principal drawback, of course, is in the event of an individual being stopped by a law enforcement official, the officer may not readily know that individual's purpose and intent for carrying a weapon. As such, it is imperative that an individual immediately notify an officer of the presence of any weapon in the automobile, for the officer's and the vehicle's occupants' safety. Another obvious drawback is that a valuable weapon may be in plain view for potential thieves to see. The prohibition to carrying concealed weapons applies not only to handguns and other weapons commonly thought of as being easily hidden, but also to "long guns" as well. Therefore, shotguns and rifles concealed behind the seat of pickup trucks, and elsewhere in other vehicles, could similarly violate North Carolina law.


    That was posted to say what exactly?

  5. #5
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    I've read the regs and I can't find anything that says its legalto carry in a locked glove box. I've read the above which reads more like an opinion then law. "Whether, in a given case, a weapon is concealed from the public, is a question of fact to be resolved by a jury" its just what it saysin the regs.

  6. #6
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    They are both "opinions". I find it quite interesting that the AG's opinion seems to differ from NCHP. I have always heard that the locked glove box and the "3 step rule" did not apply in NC. The not readily accesible part of it makes perfect sense to me I just had never seen it from an official source till this.

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    friend of a co-worker had his nephew get arrested for unlawful concealed carry... his gun was in a locked case in the bottom of a gym bag full of clothes in the back floorboard of his SUV...

    he was convicted...

    if that falls into the definition of "concealed about his person" then i would bet you money that a locked glove compartment would also fit...


    § 14‑269. Carrying concealed weapons.
    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person willfully and intentionally to carry concealed about his person any bowie knife, dirk, dagger, slung shot, loaded cane, metallic knuckles, razor, shurikin, stun gun, or other deadly weapon of like kind, except when the person is on the person's own premises.
    (a1) It shall be unlawful for any person willfully and intentionally to carry concealed about his person any pistol or gun except in the following circumstances:
    (1) The person is on the person's own premises.
    (2) The deadly weapon is a handgun, and the person has a concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter or considered valid under G.S. 14‑415.24.
    (3) The deadly weapon is a handgun and the person is a military permittee as defined under G.S. 14‑415.10(2a) who provides to the law enforcement officer proof of deployment as required under G.S. 14‑415.11(a).
    (b) This prohibition shall not apply to the following persons:
    (1) Officers and enlisted personnel of the armed forces of the United States when in discharge of their official duties as such and acting under orders requiring them to carry arms and weapons;
    (2) Civil and law enforcement officers of the United States;
    (3) Officers and soldiers of the militia and the national guard when called into actual service;
    (4) Officers of the State, or of any county, city, town, or company police agency charged with the execution of the laws of the State, when acting in the discharge of their official duties;
    (5) Sworn law‑enforcement officers, when off‑duty, provided that an officer does not carry a concealed weapon while consuming alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance or while alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance remains in the officer's body.
    (b1) It is a defense to a prosecution under this section that:
    (1) The weapon was not a firearm;
    (2) The defendant was engaged in, or on the way to or from, an activity in which he legitimately used the weapon;
    (3) The defendant possessed the weapon for that legitimate use; and
    (4) The defendant did not use or attempt to use the weapon for an illegal purpose. The burden of proving this defense is on the defendant.
    (b2) It is a defense to a prosecution under this section that:
    (1) The deadly weapon is a handgun;
    (2) The defendant is a military permittee as defined under G.S. 14‑415.10(2a); and
    (3) The defendant provides to the court proof of deployment as defined under G.S. 14‑415.10(3a).
    (c) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (a) of this section shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. Any person violating the provisions of subsection (a1) of this section shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor for the first offense. A second or subsequent offense is punishable as a Class I felony.
    (d) This section does not apply to an ordinary pocket knife carried in a closed position. As used in this section, "ordinary pocket knife" means a small knife, designed for carrying in a pocket or purse, that has its cutting edge and point entirely enclosed by its handle, and that may not be opened by a throwing, explosive, or spring action. (Code, s. 1005; Rev., s. 3708; 1917, c. 76; 1919, c. 197, s. 8; C.S., s. 4410; 1923, c. 57; Ex. Sess. 1924, c. 30; 1929, cc. 51, 224; 1947, c. 459; 1949, c. 1217; 1959, c. 1073, s. 1; 1965, c. 954, s. 1; 1969, c. 1224, s. 7; 1977, c. 616; 1981, c. 412, s. 4; c. 747, s. 66; 1983, c. 86; 1985, c. 432, ss. 1‑3; 1993, c. 539, s. 163; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 1995, c. 398, s. 2; 1997‑238, s. 1; 2003‑199, s. 2; 2005‑232, ss. 4, 5; 2005‑337, s. 1; 2006‑259, s. 5(a).)
    There is nothing in that statute that says the gun has to be readily accessible or not, it does not even have to be a functional gun... hell, under that statute, you could get charged for a stripped AR lower...

    In theory, if you walk out of a gun store with a brand new gun still in the manufacturers box, you are illegally concealing a gun.

  8. #8
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    Anybody surprised we can't get a straight answer out of the State? We talk about LEO not knowing the law. Makes you wonder if the State knows the law.

    Mec, wonder if the fact that the gun case was portable was an issue. Glovebox, console and trunk are stationary. Just wondering out loud. I have a gun safe in the truck but rarely use it when driving unless I'm taking the 22 to the range.

  9. #9
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    Many laws look at intent. You bought a gun. Its in a factory box, in a bag, on the front seat, or in the floor board. You are stopped, you inform, no problem. You are stopped, you do NOT inform, gun is 'intentionality' hidden from common view, they make a case of guilty mind and intent to hide the gun from the officer. its all in how they spin it.

    I for one would like to know how someone with a gun in a gym bag had the officer on scene find said gun. I do my best to stay within the law. That said, if a gun is stored correctly, or concealed well, there is NEVER any reason, other than your informing an LEO on approach as per nc law, for them to suspect you have one.

  10. #10
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    To be illegal the handgun must be 1) concealed from view and 2) readily accessible by either passenger or driver.

    The courts have ruled that a locked glove box is not "readily accessible". The problem usually comes when you have to dig around for your insurance/registration in the glove box. Then the situation gets uneasy for the LEO.

    If you simply must carry it locked in the glove box put your insurance/registration/other junk above the visor or somewhere else

  11. #11
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    NCjones wrote:
    To be illegal the handgun must be 1) concealed from view and 2) readily accessible by either passenger or driver.

    The courts have ruled that a locked glove box is not "readily accessible". The problem usually comes when you have to dig around for your insurance/registration in the glove box. Then the situation gets uneasy for the LEO.

    If you simply must carry it locked in the glove box put your insurance/registration/other junk above the visor or somewhere else
    Please read the statute I quoted, there is nothing in there about "readily accessable" or not.

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    That "readily accessible" bit comes from court interpretations of the "on or about our person" clause in the concealed carry statute. "About your person" has been defined by NC courts as being "readily accessible".

    For instance, if I had a gun in the drawer of my desk at work, it would obviously NOT be "on" my person, but it would be "about my person" and would be readily accessible. And being in a drawer, it it concealed from public view, making it concealed. Without a CHP, that would not be legal.

    In a backpack, briefcase, or other container that is not locked would also be considered "concealed". And even being in a locked case is a gray area, because if that locked container is portable, it may be judged as being "readily accessible" by an LEO, depending on the situation and the particular experience, mood and opinion of that LEO.

    If you don't have a CHP in NC and want to be ABSOLUTELY sure you're not going to get hassled while transporting a handgun, lock it in your trunk. The law says you can have it in the passenger compartment if it is "in plain view", but even what constituted "plain view" can be up for interpretation, depending on the situation, the LEO, and other factors like weather (windows are hard to see through when it's raining), or your particular vehicle(if you have a big truck, he might not be able to see whats on the front seat, or if you have tinted windows, etc, etc, etc).

    The line between "what the law is" and "how it is interpreted in the field" is very fuzzy with regards to many of the firearms laws in NC. Ask 10 LEO's any specific question, and you'll get 15 different answers... :?
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