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Thread: cop talks revolution

  1. #1
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    This is very interesting reading especially from a cop on a cop forum!




    Dang







    http://www.officer.com/interactive/2...lawful-orders/














    1. June 19th, 2009 at 4:33 pm


    2. June 22nd, 2009 at 11:24 am


    3. Jim

      July 10th, 2009 at 1:28 pm


    4. Jim

      To put my previous comment in perspective:
      Everyamerican needs to wake up NOW.
      From a Cop

      The fear on the street is palpable. Ever since the election of Barack Obama as President of these United States in November 2008, coupled with the election of a democrat party majority in both the U.S. House and Senate, concern for the United States and personal safety has ignited like a fire in dry grass.

      Sales of guns - black guns, rifles, shotguns and handguns (particularly 9mm) everywhere, have gone through the roof. AR15s have literally flown off of dealer shelves, and only now in the spring of 2009, have I seen the display samples of ARs begin to reappear on the wall of my favorite shooting emporium after the initial post election rush.

      Manufacturers of ARs are still working to catch up and some of the major suppliers are as much as 150,000 guns behind. Not only that, ammo is in the shortest supply I have ever seen in the 43 years of my shooting life. Have you recently tried to get 5.56mm, 9mm or even 380 ammo?

      Supplies of 5.56mm and 9mm ammo are in short supply due to the black gun buying craze; .380ACP because of the rise in people getting concealed carry permits and the resurgence of interest in convenient 380 handguns like the fine Ruger LCP. In fact, in doing a review of the Ruger LCP, my gun store only had a small supply of ONE .380 round on hand, the Winchesters 95-grain SXT, which they had just gotten in. Unfortunately, I had to do a 30-round review of that pistol. There was none other to be found.

      The 5.56mm was the first caliber to noticeably be in short supply. This was first due to the war effort, the headlong adoption of 5.56mm rifles by law enforcement agencies ever since the great LAPD bank robbery and shootout, the general shooting public interest in and acceptance of the AR15 weapons system along with a realization that yes, the AR does have sporting purpose, and of course now, this new fear that is on the street. Sales of ARs also went up following 9/11.

      What is odd about this new fear is that it is not coming from the average citizen gun owner out there, but it is coming from what to me is an almost shocking source: street cops.

      Street cops and SWAT cops that I know from various agencies - rural, suburban and metro - in my area are scared. Cops that before November 2008 never gave much thought (that I knew of anyway) to politics or more importantly to gun rights. For the most part, these are the guys that didn’t generally have any interest in shooting or gun ownership beyond keeping track of where their duty gun is, and a few of them didn’t even do that so well.

      The guys I am talking about now are some of the same guys who used to not even carry off duty on a regular basis- but not anymore They don’t scare easily, defenders of the Constitution of this State and the United States (as our oath of office reads), have been buying ARs, survival gear, and all the ammo they can lay their hands on. All of them (or I should say “us”) have been discussing and have been acquiring guns to provide a layered perimeter defense.

      We want something in .308 (or in my case a superb M1 Garand in .30-06) for covering the outer perimeters, 5.56mm weapons for mid-range use (for some with more limited funds, the AK-47 and 7.62?39 cartridge will suffice), and for the close up stuff shotguns and handguns (love my Benelli M4 Tactical and Beretta 92 9mm).

      What are we suddenly so afraid of? Well in our discussions it seems to boil down to four areas.

      First, fear of federal government intrusion into our lives. Every time I look at or listen to the news, there is something new and intrusive coming out of the Obama administration and this Congress. New tax schemes, government-run Canadian-style healthcare, a volunteer citizen defense force (whatever that is, what happened to the National Guard?) equipped with funding similar to our military, forced voluntary “service” after retirement, a lack of a southern border with hordes of illegal and criminal aliens pouring over our border, the swine flu scare as well as government forced closing of thousands of privately held Chrysler and GM dealerships, which will be the final nail in the coffin for these companies and the list goes on and on.

      But these items in the news are just the tip of the iceberg. We can’t see the full impact of these actions yet, but we don’t know what was added into the thousand of pages of stimulus package bills in the dead of night yet. I predict however that when the plans contained in the stimulus packages go into effect, a lot of us are going to be surprised if not shocked by what has suddenly and sweepingly changed.

      What also scares us is the second, well-founded fear that there is an assault weapons ban looming, one that would make the Clinton Ban appear like a look of disdain in comparison. I remember well the 1990s and the Clinton years: the rise of militia groups, the “black helicopter” rumors and paranoia, all of which was motivated by the Brady Law and the Assault Weapon’s ban. What if a new ban comes requiring registration or confiscation and turn-in of banned weapons as what happened in Australia?

      I watched cops and citizens alike purchase these guns at $900 dollars and more, with custom or tricked out guns easily running into the $2,000 range. Then add on all the accessories, red dots, lights, slings and anything else you can name and you may have up to $3,000 wrapped up in your rig. I saw the looks in their eyes. These purchasers weren’t spending this kind of money just to turn in the guns for no compensation when a government tells them to. I foresee much civil disobedience coming down the road.

      Americans are citizens, and not subjects like the British, Canadians or Australians. They just don’t always obey the law blindly and not one officer or citizen that I spoke to said anything like “I hope I get to keep this gun for awhile before they are banned; They are fun to shoot, so I would hate to give it up.” It isn’t going to happen, so the cop on the street and the soldier on the base needs to think now what he will do if the orders come down. I think you all get what I am saying here.

      Which leads me to the third fear, that there is a revolution coming, yes, a revolution on the scale of the original American Revolution. You can hear this topic discussed on many of the talk radio shows by even the big name hosts. The possibility of an armed revolution against the U.S. government is being discussed, albeit very gingerly and fleetingly and as something to be avoided, which it is. I never heard this mentioned in the 90s.

      One of my quietest, low profile officer friends brought it up the other day. He said that at some point in the near future, he felt there is going to be an armed revolt if things keep going the way they are. Something has got to give. I was shocked. Yes, I had heard this from some of my more radical cop friends in the past, but to hear it from a guy like this was unprecedented. Now, these guys are not saying this will happen to foment revolution, preach sedition or to even participate. They just want to be ready if it happens, to at least defend their families, because number four on the fear list is general societal chaos.

      Cops fear for their parents, wives, children or grandchildren more now than ever before. Most cops are encouraging their spouses and loved ones to get concealed carry permits. Not only that, but some of these same cops are buying gun mounts for their personal cars so they can carry an AR in the family ride at the ready all the time. They are also strapping on heavier forms of off-duty hardware. I have other friends that are issued ARs or subguns for tactical team use, who always have their gear with them and are planning on just commandeering these weapons for personal use in defending hearth and home.

      Final Notes

      This is pretty heady and maybe even dangerous stuff. Know fully that I am not advocating anything here. I am reflecting to you what I see and hear going on around me, and maybe saying things that haven’t been said in the open, until now. It is something to think about.

      *Written By: Scott Wagner is a Police Academy Commander and Professor at Columbus State Community College in Columbus, Ohio and Commander of the 727 Counter Terror Training Unit. A 29 year law enforcement veteran and current Deputy Sheriff, he is the Precision Marksman for the Union County Sheriff’s Office SRT Team.*

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    Well, then these police will have a choice to make. Either strap on and put on their uniform and follow the commands handed to them by the feds, or strap on and put on their civvies and become a patriot.

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    Can someone please explain to me why Americans are so afraid of brown people?

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    The military will have to decide the same thing.

    Americans aren't afraid of brown people. It's just stupid to have illegals coming across our borders whether they're brown, black, yellow, or white.

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    "Brown people" sounds like a racist bastard talking. No one has a fear of Mexicans, they have a fear of undocumented, ILLEGAL boarder crossings.

    .02

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    partyncwby wrote:
    No one has a fear of Mexicans, they have a fear of undocumented
    Wait wait wait, hold the boat. When did it become Okay to document and keep tabs on people? Aren't we supposed to be getting the government out of our lives? Isn't government intrusion one of the big "fears"?

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    It's been okay to document non-citizens entering this country for over a well over a hundred years. You know if your grandparents came through Ellis Island you can look up the records.

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    partyncwby wrote:
    It's been okay to document non-citizens entering this country for over a well over a hundred years. You know if your grandparents came through Ellis Island you can look up the records.
    Documenting people is an intrusion. If you're Ok with documenting people (I'm not, BTW; it's not OK today and it wasn't a hundred years ago, either), then you don't mind government meddling. In which case it's illogical to list both intrusion and free travel (aka. illegal immigration) as fears.

    I just don't get how you reconcile those two. It's very... what's the word... doublethink.

    By the way: The USA has been a net emmigrator for some years now, due to the failing economy. Saying that we have scads of illegals flooding over the borders is about as genius as saying that 90% of Mexican drug cartel firearms come from America.

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    I'm sorry, but I can wrap my mind around the fact there are American Citizens (Me, born here) that have the right of privacy and Non-Americans (I'll spell this out, NOT born here) that we as a country have a right not to blindly allow in to the country. You know murders, rapists, terrorists, general evil-doers.

    Say a woman is a serial killer of men in France and they don't want her because she's killing off their armed forces with a spoon and they send her to America to get rid of her. I would say it's okay to find out who the heck she is and say NO, not you little darling.

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    partyncwby wrote:
    I'm sorry, but I can wrap my mind around the fact there are American Citizens (Me, born here) that have the right of privacy and Non-Americans (I'll spell this out, NOT born here) that we as a country have a right not to blindly allow in to the country.
    Ahhh... I see. So the fact that the person fell out of mommy on a different parcel of land than you did means they aren't as good as you. Everyone is equal, but some people are more equal than others. Am I right?

    You know murders, rapists, terrorists, general evil-doers.

    Ah, I see. So free travelers are murders (sic), rapists, terrorists, and general evil-doers.

    I had no idea getting that a government issued driver's license had the magical powers to make me something other than a murderer, rapist, terrorist, or general evil-doer.

    Or that leaving it at home was such a danger to other people's health.

    Say a woman is a serial killer of men in France and they don't want her because she's killing off their armed forces with a spoon and they send her to America to get rid of her.
    Right. Because France doesn't have jails.

    Alright, so she's shipped off, because France doesn't have a criminal justice system apparently. She arrives, and upon attempting more of her evil shenanigans, is promptly shot by a well armed American citizen defending themselves from the aggressor. Problem solved for everyone.

    Oh, wait, I'm sorry, you spewed more... Hang on here

    I would say it's okay to find out who the heck she is and say NO, not you little darling.
    Hey, you're perfectly welcome to say that. And enforce it. On your property.

    But so long as the government is stealing money from me to pay for them, I own the streets as much as you do (maybe more, maybe less, who knows) and I say I want to travel down them unmolested, just like the 4th amendment says I'm supposed to be able to. And unfortunately, there's no way to "protect" me from this hypothetical sweet little French dish without molesting me in my travels. A person who trades a little freedom for a little temporary safety... and all that jazz.

    No, sorry. I'll happily take the French Maid if it means the suspicion-less border patrol checkpoints go away. After all, just the fact that I'm driving puts me at like 70-bajillion times the risk of dying that day compared to a random terrorist attack.

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    Wow, you've must have been in Seattle awhile.

    Everyone is born equal, it's what you do after you "fall out". I'm getting the feeling that you long for an America with no borders. If you've ever done SECFOR or QRF then you'd know the importance of good fences.

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    partyncwby wrote:
    Wow, you've must have been in Seattle awhile.
    And you must hate the constitution, or at least that pesky fourth amendment.

    Everyone is born equal, it's what you do after you "fall out".
    So than what is your problem with illegal aliens that aren't murderers, rapists, or "general evil-doers"? Don't they enjoy the same right to free travel that we do?

    I'm getting the feeling that you long for an America with no borders.
    I long for a stateless society.

    If you've ever done SECFOR or QRF then you'd know the importance of good fences.
    I have no idea what either of those are, but they appear to be military related, and thus, I don't really care.


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    Grishnav-

    Who urinated in your breakfast cereal today?

    Nobody hates a LEGAL immigrant, just those that come here around the system and then feel they are entitled to all the rights of a legal immigrant.

    As for "documenting people" haven't you heard of a Birth Certificate? Everyone born here gets one (Obama excepted) and entering the country legally gets a document that allows them to remain and enjoy the benefits we provide here legally. What in hell's name is so sinister in that?


    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    I don't hate the Constitution or 4A, they apply to American Citizens. If your not an American and want our liberty, become a Citizen, legally.

    I do have a problem with illegal aliens, they're ILLEGAL! They broke the law, duh.

    You long for a "stateless society". Sounds like NWO, scary.

    SECFOR is security force and QRF is quick reactionary force. Yes I've done my patriotic chore and am damn proud of it. I've seen the world, you may piss and moan about how bad you have it here in America, but I've seen first hand how we live in the best country on the planet hands down.

    If you don't agree that's your right, remember we're in the land of the free.

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    amlevin wrote:
    haven't you heard of a Birth Certificate?* Everyone born here gets one (Obama excepted)
    Please tell me you are not a crackpot "Birther"...
    Sure "they" could've Photoshopped one but did they also go back in time and put his birth announcement in two Hawaiian newspapers?

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    amlevin wrote:
    Grishnav-

    Who urinated in your breakfast cereal today?
    I didn't have cereal this morning. Maybe that's the problem.

    [We only hate] those that come here around the system and then feel they are entitled to all the rights of a legal immigrant.
    And why, assuming they are peaceful, do you hate them? If they are peaceful, it's safe to assume that they haven't hurt you in any way, so what's the big friggin' deal? Why should peaceful people be prevented from traveling freely?

    Do you hate the guy that goes 5mph over the speed limit, smokes pot, or carries a handgun without a permit?

    I don't. On the contrary, I think that guy is something of a hero!

    Everyone born here [...] gets a document that allows them to remain [...]. What in hell's name is so sinister in that?
    The fact that a document is required to remain her is sinister in and of itself.

    The fact that a document is required to travel is sinister in and of itself.

    If it doesn't sound sinster enough, imagine calling the documents "papers" instead. If that's still not bad enough, imagine officer friendly asking for them politely, knowing full well he will kill you where you stand for not having them. "Papers please," indeed.

    Conservatives used to understand why this was wrong without any problem, but throw in a brown person (or anyone who looks different really, let's not pretend that "terrorist" isn't just a codeword for "Muslim" and/or "Islamic," and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that "general evil-doers" is probably reserved for black people) and all the sudden hurting people is not ugly and disgusting but rather a righteous cause necessary to the security of our "free" state -- whatever the hell that means.

    Well, not for me. I still find it disgusting all around. I love freedom and oppose that which infringes on it, period.

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    Grishnav,

    Edit: You're just an anarchist.

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    partyncwby wrote:
    I do have a problem with illegal aliens, they're ILLEGAL! They broke the law, duh.
    You've never gone 5 over the speed limit? Didn't come to a complete stop at a stop sign? Eaten food?

    You've never done anything illegal?

    If you have, then you must be an illegal too!

    You long for a "stateless society". Sounds like NWO, scary.
    NWO would, by definition, be a government, aka. a state.

    A stateless society, by definition, would be the opposite outcome of a NWO.

    You're phrase literally reads, "You long for peace. Sounds like war, scary."

    SECFOR is security force and QRF is quick reactionary force. Yes I've done my patriotic chore and am damn proud of it.
    Thanks, criminal, for stealing from me and fraudulently killing in my name. Now criminals aren't allowed in this here country, so you have to leave...

    I've seen the world, you may piss and moan about how bad you have it here in America
    I never said "we" had it bad here in America. But that doesn't mean that "we" don't have problems or that "we" couldn't do better.

    If you don't agree that's your right, remember we're in the land of the free.
    Just not the land of free travel. Or freedom to keep and bear arms. Or freedom to speak. Or freedom to own property. Or freedom to own your own life.

    Land of the free, indeed.

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    grishnav wrote:
    And you must hate the constitution, or at least that pesky fourth amendment.
    Grishnav: You seem to be missing the point here. Let me spell it out for you:

    THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT APPLY TO NON-CITIZENS!!!

    As others have said, if someone wants the Constitutional protections we citizens enjoy, let them follow the law to become one. Are you on the same page now?
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    The Constitution applies only to American citizens.Yes we should have some way to keep out undesirables.No they are not my equal as I was born American.If one is not born American OH F>>KING well... luck of the draw.I do not like illegals and think we should have a bounty for everyone turned in.They have thumbed their nose at us for to long..leeched of of hard working American citizens.Time it stopped.



    That being said I have great respect for those that come here work ,don't take tax payer money ,learn to speak the language and become citizens.

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    p2a1x7 wrote:
    Grishnav,

    What do you think of voting? Should everyone in the world get a say in our government since they are equals to us?
    I believe in self government. As such, there is no such thing as "our government," but only "my government." The only person who has a say in my government is me; the only person who has a say in your government is you. As long as our governments don't interfere with each other, there is no problem.

    If you chose, for some crazy reason, to allow the insanity that is the cluster of people choosing to call themselves "the united states of america," cast votes that decide how you should live your life, go ahead. If you chose to adopt their decisions and enslave yourself to their whims, fine. You're a free individual, and that means you're free to make stupid choices as well.

    I reject them. They are crazy people. They want to steal my money, tell me what I can own, where I can go and even what I can and cannot ingest. Why would I want that for my life? No, thank you. I chose to make my own choices.

    Unfortunately, I end up following most of their insane rules, because they will hurt me if I don't. So do you, in all likelihood.



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    Tell ya what, you come and tell me to my face that I'm a criminal for serving my country. I'm thinking your all hat, no cattle.


    I was having fun with the banter, but you crossed the line. And I know a couple million good folks you owe an apology to. You can start an the Mt. Tahoma Cemetary.

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    should make it legal to shoot the terrorists sneaking across the border.

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    Metalhead47 wrote:
    grishnav wrote:
    And you must hate the constitution, or at least that pesky fourth amendment.
    Grishnav: You seem to be missing the point here. Let me spell it out for you:

    THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT APPLY TO NON-CITIZENS!!!



    Why the obnoxious font, bud?

    Look, I don't really care about the constitution. I didn't agree to it. You won't find my signature on it. And I don't want to be controlled by it. I believe certain rights are innate to humans and inalienable, constitution or not. I only use it as an example because many people here seem to agree with it and try to abide by it. Some have even sworn an oath to uphold it.

    Like, for example, every law enforcement officer currently on the plot of land known as the united states. So undoubtedly it applies to them. And since that's the case, no law enforcement officer should be unreasonably searching or seizing me. Or anyone else. But they do. Every time I cross a border. Ridiculous.

    As others have said, if someone wants the Constitutional protections we citizens enjoy, let them follow the law to become one. Are you on the same page now?

    No, we're not on the same page. I am not a citizen. Neither are you. The fact that I happened to be born on a certain plot of land does not make me a citizen, nor does that fact that I live here.

    A citizen is:

    A person owing loyalty to and entitled by birth or naturalization to the protection of a state or nation.
    I do not owe any loyalty to the men and women calling themselves the United States of America. I never signed any agreement with them. I never took any oath to obey their rules.

    Further, as has been pointed out many times on these forums, the supreme court has ruled that the state has no duty to protect you, which means that their simple half of the unsigned, invalid "citizen" agreement isn't even being fulfilled.

    Actually, it's not really fair of me to assert that you aren't a citizen. You're a free person, and if you want to call yourself a citizen, or make an agreement that makes you a citizen, I've no right to interfere.

    Anyway, I've had my fill of internet arguing tonight. We now return to your regularly scheduled OCDO trolling.

    Sorry for disrupting your thread. Viva la Revolución!

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    grishnav wrote:
    Metalhead47 wrote:
    grishnav wrote:
    blah blah blah
    Well if you want a stateless society where you are your own government, go find yourself your own little island somewhere. After some of your ridiculous comments here some folks might be willing to chip in on transportation costs. The rest of us have chosen to live in a community where we all have to agree on how to get along, and we've come up with these things called laws so we don't constantly resort to beating each other with rocks when our own-lil-personal govenments clash :P
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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