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cop talks revolution

grishnav

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p2a1x7 wrote:
Grishnav,

What do you think of voting? Should everyone in the world get a say in our government since they are equals to us?

I believe in self government. As such, there is no such thing as "our government," but only "my government." The only person who has a say in my government is me; the only person who has a say in your government is you. As long as our governments don't interfere with each other, there is no problem.

If you chose, for some crazy reason, to allow the insanity that is the cluster of people choosing to call themselves "the united states of america," cast votes that decide how you should live your life, go ahead. If you chose to adopt their decisions and enslave yourself to their whims, fine. You're a free individual, and that means you're free to make stupid choices as well.

I reject them. They are crazy people. They want to steal my money, tell me what I can own, where I can go and even what I can and cannot ingest. Why would I want that for my life? No, thank you. I chose to make my own choices.

Unfortunately, I end up following most of their insane rules, because they will hurt me if I don't. So do you, in all likelihood.
 

partyncwby

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Tell ya what, you come and tell me to my face that I'm a criminal for serving my country. I'm thinking your all hat, no cattle.


I was having fun with the banter, but you crossed the line. And I know a couple million good folks you owe an apology to. You can start an the Mt. Tahoma Cemetary.
 

Boo Boo

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should make it legal to shoot the terrorists sneaking across the border.
 

grishnav

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Metalhead47 wrote:
grishnav wrote:
And you must hate the constitution, or at least that pesky fourth amendment.

Grishnav: You seem to be missing the point here. Let me spell it out for you:

THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT APPLY TO NON-CITIZENS!!!



Why the obnoxious font, bud?

Look, I don't really care about the constitution. I didn't agree to it. You won't find my signature on it. And I don't want to be controlled by it. I believe certain rights are innate to humans and inalienable, constitution or not. I only use it as an example because many people here seem to agree with it and try to abide by it. Some have even sworn an oath to uphold it.

Like, for example, every law enforcement officer currently on the plot of land known as the united states. So undoubtedly it applies to them. And since that's the case, no law enforcement officer should be unreasonably searching or seizing me. Or anyone else. But they do. Every time I cross a border. Ridiculous.

As others have said, if someone wants the Constitutional protections we citizens enjoy, let them follow the law to become one. Are you on the same page now?
No, we're not on the same page. I am not a citizen. Neither are you. The fact that I happened to be born on a certain plot of land does not make me a citizen, nor does that fact that I live here.

A citizen is:

A person owing loyalty to and entitled by birth or naturalization to the protection of a state or nation.

I do not owe any loyalty to the men and women calling themselves the United States of America. I never signed any agreement with them. I never took any oath to obey their rules.

Further, as has been pointed out many times on these forums, the supreme court has ruled that the state has no duty to protect you, which means that their simple half of the unsigned, invalid "citizen" agreement isn't even being fulfilled.

Actually, it's not really fair of me to assert that you aren't a citizen. You're a free person, and if you want to call yourself a citizen, or make an agreement that makes you a citizen, I've no right to interfere.

Anyway, I've had my fill of internet arguing tonight. We now return to your regularly scheduled OCDO trolling. :lol:

Sorry for disrupting your thread. Viva la Revolución!
 

Metalhead47

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grishnav wrote:
Metalhead47 wrote:
grishnav wrote:
blah blah blah
Well if you want a stateless society where you are your own government, go find yourself your own little island somewhere. After some of your ridiculous comments here some folks might be willing to chip in on transportation costs. The rest of us have chosen to live in a community where we all have to agree on how to get along, and we've come up with these things called laws so we don't constantly resort to beating each other with rocks when our own-lil-personal govenments clash :p
 

cynicist

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Grishnav: You seem to be missing the point here. Let me spell it out for you: THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT APPLY TO NON-CITIZENS!!!
You seem to not have studied any constitutional law.

YES IT DOES!

There is a distinction between "citizens" and "persons." Citizens can vote, persons don't get unlawfully searched, etc.

I'd really like to know where this myth that the Constitution only applies to citizens comes from. Go get your copy and read it. You should understand by then. If not, you've already made up your mind, and no amount of fact could confuse you otherwise.

 

Metalhead47

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cynicist wrote:
Grishnav: You seem to be missing the point here. Let me spell it out for you: THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT APPLY TO NON-CITIZENS!!!
You seem to not have studied any constitutional law.

YES IT DOES!

No, it doesn't.:D

It was not the founders' intent that the protection of law apply to a flood of foreign invaders.
 

sirpuma

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My take on this grishnav character.

grishnav wrote: Can someone please explain to me why Americans are so afraid of brown people?
Instantly brought in racism when there was none mentioned in the OP’s linked blog.

In which case it's illogical to list both intrusion and free travel (aka. illegal immigration) as fears.

So than what is your problem with illegal aliens that aren't murderers, rapists, or "general evil-doers"? Don't they enjoy the same right to free travel that we do?
Equates Illegal Immigration as “free travel” repeatedly.

So the fact that the person fell out of mommy on a different parcel of land than you did means they aren't as good as you.
Admits to being a foreigner, born in another country.

But so long as the government is stealing money from me to pay for them, I own the streets as much as you do (maybe more, maybe less, who knows) and I say I want to travel down them unmolested, just like the 4th amendment says I'm supposed to be able to.
Believes he “owns” the streets.

No, sorry. I'll happily take the French Maid if it means the suspicion-less border patrol checkpoints go away.

If they are peaceful, it's safe to assume that they haven't hurt you in any way, so what's the big friggin' deal? Why should peaceful people be prevented from traveling freely?
Wishes for violent criminals to be free to roam this country.

I long for a stateless society.
Follows Marxism

Do you hate the guy that goes 5mph over the speed limit, smokes pot, or carries a handgun without a permit?

I don't. On the contrary, I think that guy is something of a hero!
Celebrates criminals and criminal behavior.

The fact that a document is required to remain her is sinister in and of itself.

The fact that a document is required to travel is sinister in and of itself.

If it doesn't sound sinster enough, imagine calling the documents "papers" instead. If that's still not bad enough, imagine officer friendly asking for them politely, knowing full well he will kill you where you stand for not having them. "Papers please," indeed.
Can’t tell the difference between “documents” and “licensing” and doesn’t understand why we have driver’s licenses.

Conservatives used to understand why this was wrong without any problem, but throw in a brown person (or anyone who looks different really, let's not pretend that "terrorist" isn't just a codeword for "Muslim" and/or "Islamic," and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that "general evil-doers" is probably reserved for black people) and all the sudden hurting people is not ugly and disgusting but rather a righteous cause necessary to the security of our "free" state -- whatever the hell that means.
Brings racism in again without it being brought up. Doesn’t understand that DHS has listed all racial “hate” groups as terrorists as well as the militias.

Thanks, criminal, for stealing from me and fraudulently killing in my name. Now criminals aren't allowed in this here country, so you have to leave...
Doesn’t like this country or its people, is even derogatory and deserves a butt whoopin.

Why the obnoxious font, bud?
Because of your “obnoxious” attitude.

Look, I don't really care about the constitution. I didn't agree to it. You won't find my signature on it. And I don't want to be controlled by it.

And since that's the case, no law enforcement officer should be unreasonably searching or seizing me. Or anyone else. But they do. Every time I cross a border. I am not a citizen.
Admits that he doesn’t respect our laws and illegally crosses our borders.

I do not owe any loyalty to the men and women calling themselves the United States of America. I never signed any agreement with them. I never took any oath to obey their rules.
Viva la Revolución!
What I see here is a Marxist and racist hispanic illegal alien trying to spread his hate and anti-American views on these forums. I wouldn't be surprised if he was also a gang member. I say he needs to be reported to ICE and deported, after he’s had a serious “prayer meeting” for his slanderous comments.

Since he has admitted to being an illegal alien the constitution doesn’t apply to him and he has no right to free speech or any of our other rights.
 

G27

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grishnav wrote:
Look, I don't really care about the constitution. I didn't agree to it. You won't find my signature on it. And I don't want to be controlled by it. I believe certain rights are innate to humans and inalienable, constitution or not. I only use it as an example because many people here seem to agree with it and try to abide by it. Some have even sworn an oath to uphold it.
I take it you've never had a political science class? By staying in this country and taking advantage of what this society has given you, you have agreed to a social contract. In exchange for giving up certain natural rights from a state of nature you are given society (and eventually government). In this society you still retain certain natural rights (like the right to survival and a few others depending on who you listen too).

If you don't like what this society has to offer, you're free to leave anytime. If you and others feel the government has become corrupt or is not providing the service that it is there for, then they have broken their form of the contract and you are allowed to the right of revolution (which is also a natural right).

You can't say you truly dislike something yet still live here. If you were that disgusted and didn't leave, I'd think one is speaking hollow words.

Also a stateless society would most likely not be able to exist. This is why we left a state of nature to begin with and ended up where we are now. Society and government do benefit humanity. Whether you like it or not nothing we know would exist today and we'd be most likely still fighting each other over game.
 

partyncwby

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He's just a kid who hasn't yet had time to witness the real world. He's just ignorant and has a keyboard. In reality I suppose it isn't his fault, he's a product of the Oregon public school system.

Just because you have a tongue, doesn't mean you should never listen. -- me
 

Washintonian_For_Liberty

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sirpuma wrote:
Well, then these police will have a choice to make. Either strap on and put on their uniform and follow the commands handed to them by the feds, or strap on and put on their civvies and become a patriot.
How about strap on and put on their uniform andsupport the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the state of Washington as they swore to do in their Oath of office?

Why do they need to leave off the uniform to protect the Constitution? They swore to uphold it while wearing that uniform.
 

Aaron1124

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G27 wrote:
grishnav wrote:
Look, I don't really care about the constitution. I didn't agree to it. You won't find my signature on it. And I don't want to be controlled by it. I believe certain rights are innate to humans and inalienable, constitution or not. I only use it as an example because many people here seem to agree with it and try to abide by it. Some have even sworn an oath to uphold it.
I take it you've never had a political science class? By staying in this country and taking advantage of what this society has given you, you have agreed to a social contract. In exchange for giving up certain natural rights from a state of nature you are given society (and eventually government). In this society you still retain certain natural rights (like the right to survival and a few others depending on who you listen too).

If you don't like what this society has to offer, you're free to leave anytime. If you and others feel the government has become corrupt or is not providing the service that it is there for, then they have broken their form of the contract and you are allowed to the right of revolution (which is also a natural right).

You can't say you truly dislike something yet still live here. If you were that disgusted and didn't leave, I'd think one is speaking hollow words.

Also a stateless society would most likely not be able to exist. This is why we left a state of nature to begin with and ended up where we are now. Society and government do benefit humanity. Whether you like it or not nothing we know would exist today and we'd be most likely still fighting each other over game.
I somewhat disagree. He can dislike something yet still live here. Maybe his dislike for (insert dislikes here) doesn't outweigh the hassle of leaving the country. You can still dislike something, but not allow your dislike to outweigh the hassle that may come along with moving out of the country. Or maybe an individual doesn't have the financial security or luxury to "just move" out of the country.
 

Aaron1124

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
sirpuma wrote:
Well, then these police will have a choice to make. Either strap on and put on their uniform and follow the commands handed to them by the feds, or strap on and put on their civvies and become a patriot.
How about strap on and put on their uniform andsupport the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the state of Washington as they swore to do in their Oath of office?

Why do they need to leave off the uniform to protect the Constitution? They swore to uphold it while wearing that uniform.
Amen brother.
 

sirpuma

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
sirpuma wrote:
Well, then these police will have a choice to make. Either strap on and put on their uniform and follow the commands handed to them by the feds, or strap on and put on their civvies and become a patriot.
How about strap on and put on their uniform andsupport the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the state of Washington as they swore to do in their Oath of office?

Why do they need to leave off the uniform to protect the Constitution? They swore to uphold it while wearing that uniform.
I chose those particular words because when the poo hits the oscillating wind generator local LEO will be used in conjunction with ATF and DHS people to enforce their rule over us. Those people in uniform will become targets. I would hate to have a true patriot among the LE crowd be targeted because of his uniform. And I would rather see them on our side of the street providing their skill/training and leadership where it's needed the most.
 

grishnav

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sirpuma wrote:
My take on this grishnav character.

Meh. I said I was done, but I can't resist just this one.

I'm not racist, about as white as they come, was born in Portland, OR, and have never left the country.

I am a capitalist, which is pretty much diametrically opposed to marxism. In fact, immigration control is more marxist than immigration freedom is. After all, labor is labor, and an immigration restriction is also a labor restriction (they are "stealing" our jobs -- ohs noes!), which, ultimately, is an economic intervention by the government. And economic interventions by the government are decided un-capatalist and, oh yeah, socialist!

And pretending that the immigration issue isn't about racism is just disingenuous, because it so clearly is. And since the article did mention the immigration issue as one of the major fears, it's a valid point of conversation. The fact that it makes some uncomfortable notwithstanding.

I don't believe I own the streets, but I do believe my money is being stolen to pay for them, and that makes at least a portion of them rightfully mine (though it's impossible to assess how much is mine and how much is yours, and I'm willing to simply cede whatever claim or interest I may have to a road management company, voluntarily, in the interest of peaceful progress).

Saying I wish for violent people to roam the streets is, well, a such a blatant misrepresentation that it must be intentional. I've neither said nor implied that anywhere; in fact, the entirety of my discussion has been only as it relates to peaceful people acting freely. Non-peaceful people is a much longer and more complicated discussion and, given the level of discourse displayed in this thread thus far, not one I'm ready to have. My fingers would fall off from all the typing.

I don't celebrate criminal behavior, but I do celebrate civil disobedience (which is what we do every time we violate an illegal park ordinance, for example). A person smoking pot is not a criminal, because criminals are the people who hurt others. Rather, he is a civil disobedient, for he has broken the law without hurting anyone.

I love this country, and I like a lot of the people here; I just don't like the government and, you're right, I don't respect the government's laws one bit. I forgive the people who work for the government, and hope they find a peaceful path for their life some day.

Oh yeah, and I'm not a member of any gang. lol! But all you military folks are.

Riddle me this: Why is it that you are wishing violence upon me when I've done nothing whatsoever to harm you?

Also, my intent is not to offend, and I apologize if I have. These days I tend to speak frankly about the actions of the government, and some people aren't ready to hear it. Especially those that are involved with it in some way.

My intent is to have discussion that moves more people toward the realization that a coercive entity is as unnecessary to "manage" the people as it is to "manage" the economy; and that it's management is as destructive to the pepole as it is to the economy. And though many of you seem to be harboring hate and wishing violence upon me, for you I have nothing but forgiveness and love. I forgive the cops that arrested me for open carrying in Oregon, and the ones who broke into my hotel room and tossed it looking for a laser pointer, and the ones who will probably arrest me in the future for "illegally" being in possession of one thing or another, the ones that are separating me from my family, friends, and money by forcing me to fight them over an illegal revocation. I harbor no ill-will and wish no harm towards the IRS agents that continue to sap me of my hard-earned wealth, nor the federal reserve that is working to destroy whatever the IRS doesn't manage to get their hands on in order to enrich themselves and their friends, nor the census bureau employee that will undoubtedly visit me sometime in the next year with a host of wholly inappropriate probing questions they have no business asking, nor the senators and representatives and presidents and governors and mayors that made all this suffering and tyranny possible. Nor to any of you here, even as some of you apparently wish it upon me. I'm interesting only in attaining more freedom, peace, and prosperity for myself and those around me.
 
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