So I had always heard Serpa's were good...

Lie2me · Aug 6, 2009

imported post

I've found the paddle attachment on the serpato be more secure as others have said. You'd have to yank your pants off to get that off of you as the "hooks" work well. I also have found that when paired with a thick 5.11 tactical belt, this works well for me and my XD. But yes, it gets real individualized.

curtiswr · Aug 6, 2009

imported post

ufcfanvt wrote:

Before you use it for carry, try it out with an unloaded gun while under stress.
In Force-on-Force I've seen a few guys have an ND while drawing. The Serpa makes you put pressure on the trigger-guard area, where you should NEVER put pressure while drawing.
The round is highly likely to go into your leg at that point.
Again, try it while a couple of your friends are running at you. Make CERTAIN the gun is unloaded. I personally wouldn't even do that. I use an airsoft equivalent of my Glock 19.
Stay safe.

If you are pushing the button in with a hooked finger then you are operating the holster incorrectly. You should be simply sliding your extended finger over the button while drawing and allowing your still extended finger to rest either on the slide/frame or next to the trigger guard. With correct operation chances are incredibly good that you won't have a ND.

I don't get how people that improperly use anything or hear about other people improperly using things apply said improper use to their judgment of the quality of any item. Of course when you use something incorrectly it could very well lead to a malfunction.

If you practice and train, as you should, then you will begin to either correctly use the holster or decide that you can't get the hang of proper use of a Serpa and pick something else that suits you better.

TexasNative · Aug 6, 2009

imported post

I agree with Curtis: if you operate the Serpa properly, your finger is indexed along the frame of the pistol as you draw it. I've never come close to an ND with that holster.

~ Boyd

ufcfanvt · Aug 6, 2009

imported post

curtiswr wrote:

Of course when you use something incorrectly it could very well lead to a malfunction.

The proper use of any holster does not occur at the climate-controlled, lighted, static gun-range in which no thugs are chasing you down. All positive evaluations of the Serpa that I have seen seem be have been tested under these conditions.
I am offering the results of tests conducted in conditions that approximate those for which a holster is intended. Go train yourself and see what works for you. Realize that YMMV and others may not have the long, ninja-like fingers you do when 3 men are running at you with blades out.

If you practice and train, as you should, then you will begin to either correctly use the holster or decide that you can't get the hang of proper use of a Serpa and pick something else that suits you better.

Exactly what I'm saying. I might add, allow the curious to benefit from the advice of people other than yourself. I didn't bash anyone else's rave reviews of the Serpa. I simply offered a counter opinion based on realistic training that I actually partook in. This is way too common amongst the keyboard commandos on this and other forums.

Grapeshot · Aug 6, 2009

imported post

The Serpa ND issue is IMO training related and is not the fault of the holster but the user.

Never train/practice pushing the release on a Serpa with the tip of your finger. Just as reaching for the trigger before the gun completely clears your leather holster is a recipe for disaster, so too is pushing the release on a Serpa with a curled finger tip.

Correct procedure is for the index finger to be fully extended (straight) next to memory ridge. Then begin the draw stroke sliding your straight extended finger over the release. The result will be an effortless, slick draw with your finger extended straight along the slide - where it belongs, prior to being fully on target.

Yata hey

cREbralFIX · Aug 6, 2009

imported post

Serpa...not a good choice.

1) Trigger finger is doing something other than indexing or working the trigger. All is well under normal range conditions. As soon as some pressure is put on the shooter, things sometimes fall apart...too many NDs in gun courses. Even at least one local guy had folks ND in his courses. He no longer allows Serpas in his courses.

2) My personal holster locked up on me when a small pebble wedged itself in the mechanism. I couldn't extract the gun. This was at Quantico Shooting Club during a gun course. The area was grassy. My concern on the street would be if I was knocked down and rolled around a bit.

Sorry Grapeshot, but you are wrong. "In class" experience shows it's otherwise. It is not a training issue. NDs are mistakes and it's the pressure that causes the shooter to fall apart. By pressure, it's either self-induced when trying to hurry or due to the nature of physical reactions during a fight.

If you like it...great. Just remember what the trigger finger is for...easier said than done under pressure.

Icetera · Aug 6, 2009

imported post

cREbralFIX wrote:

Serpa...not a good choice.

1) Trigger finger is doing something other than indexing or working the trigger. All is well under normal range conditions. As soon as some pressure is put on the shooter, things sometimes fall apart...too many NDs in gun courses. Even at least one local guy had folks ND in his courses. He no longer allows Serpas in his courses.

2) My personal holster locked up on me when a small pebble wedged itself in the mechanism. I couldn't extract the gun. This was at Quantico Shooting Club during a gun course. The area was grassy. My concern on the street would be if I was knocked down and rolled around a bit.

Sorry Grapeshot, but you are wrong. "In class" experience shows it's otherwise. It is not a training issue. NDs are mistakes and it's the pressure that causes the shooter to fall apart. By pressure, it's either self-induced when trying to hurry or due to the nature of physical reactions during a fight.

If you like it...great. Just remember what the trigger finger is for...easier said than done under pressure.

Hence the need to train the muscle memory just as anything else pertaining to self defense firearms. Even though I do not regularly carry my Serpa any more (since I prefer my Fobus for other reasons), I find that my rather short finger is trained to land on theframe of my Sig229. The fact that it was my first holster I am sure helped. I will agree that the mechanism is one thing that I could see worrying about failuredue to the mentioned stone or perhaps damage and of course various pistols may match up to the retention better than others.Holster choice is all a matter of preference, though I find banning a a very popular holster over a few bad apples to be quite disappointing.

Grapeshot · Aug 6, 2009

imported post

cREbralFIX wrote:

Serpa...not a good choice.

1) Trigger finger is doing something other than indexing or working the trigger. All is well under normal range conditions. As soon as some pressure is put on the shooter, things sometimes fall apart...too many NDs in gun courses. Even at least one local guy had folks ND in his courses. He no longer allows Serpas in his courses.

2) My personal holster locked up on me when a small pebble wedged itself in the mechanism. I couldn't extract the gun. This was at Quantico Shooting Club during a gun course. The area was grassy. My concern on the street would be if I was knocked down and rolled around a bit.

Sorry Grapeshot, but you are wrong. "In class" experience shows it's otherwise. It is not a training issue. NDs are mistakes and it's the pressure that causes the shooter to fall apart. By pressure, it's either self-induced when trying to hurry or due to the nature of physical reactions during a fight.

If you like it...great. Just remember what the trigger finger is for...easier said than done under pressure.

Not often told I am wrong, when someone else is expressing an opinion. :?

I will grant you it is easier to disallow something than to correct the problem at its source.

As to your personal holster locking up with a pebble. You related that story to me personally; then upon examination of my Serpa you said, "Oh, I see they fixed that." Indeed they have.

I have seen and heard of students who have shot themselves in the leg while using thumb break, leather holsters - one was a long time instructor. Then and now, I consider that a training/learning issue.

Yata hey

peter nap · Aug 6, 2009

imported post

I have to side with Grapeshot. I have learned, unlearned, relearned and disregarded more shooting techniques, than I care to think about.

Combat training changes with technology, law and crime. There was a time when we were taught (Revolver days) to draw with the trigger in double action fire position, and actually start the pull as soon as the gun cleared the holster. In theory, it would discharge as soon as your elbows were locked at your sides.

I spent many thousands of rounds learning that...and as many or more, unlearning it.

I had a ND (although I like to callit aan AD) shortly after switching to an auto. I shot Col. Klink cleanly between the eyes and had to buy a new TV that evening, or face the wrath of the wife..

That had a big impact on my gun handling methods and I am religious about having my trigger finger, outside of the guard, on draw.

So yes, Grapeshot is right. It is all training and the Serpa is as safe as any holster, if you train correctly with it.

bnkrazy · Aug 6, 2009

imported post

After a few tests, I can see where your finger _could_ slip into the trigger guard if you hooked it, but I seem to naturally slide my finger along and it lands on the frame anyway. With enough repetition, I think it will be fine for me.

While breaking in the M&P on Tuesday I never had any issues with my finger slipping when drawing. I did on occasion not press the button down enough so it didn't release, but even when mashing it hard to reinforce the new draw method, it never slipped into the trigger guard.

Like anything though, YMMV.

ufcfanvt · Aug 7, 2009

imported post

This is a tired issue as we've been over it before. All I've ever said is to try it for yourself under simulated combat stress. Do this in a safe manner, but be certain that no fouled draws or ND's happen. IF YOU feel comfortable at that point, continue on down the road w/ your Serpa in tow. But, don't tell everyone: "No Fear, I've drawn on my mirror in my room and the paper at the range 10,000 times with NO ISSUES!" That's hardly experience.

Grapeshot · Aug 7, 2009

imported post

ufcfanvt wrote:

This is a tired issue as we've been over it before. All I've ever said is to try it for yourself under simulated combat stress. Do this in a safe manner, but be certain that no fouled draws or ND's happen. IF YOU feel comfortable at that point, continue on down the road w/ your Serpa in tow. But, don't tell everyone: "No Fear, I've drawn on my mirror in my room and the paper at the range 10,000 times with NO ISSUES!" That's hardly experience.

Murphy's Law of Thermodynamics
Things get worse under pressure.

The simpler version: If it can go wrong, it will.

Appreciate the benefit of your of your experience and thoughts.

As a wiser sage than I once said, "You may be right."

Yata hey

darthmord · Aug 7, 2009

imported post

Ya know, if my OC firearm gets all jammed up in the holster... there's a reason why I typically CC a BUG.

I'm not paranoid or anything but anything that reduces Murphy's impact is fine by me.

wylde007 · Aug 7, 2009

imported post

ufcfanvt wrote:

All I've ever said is to try it for yourself under simulated combat stress.

If you do it over and over again in non-combat practice, then it should be second-nature in the event that you have to perform.

As my high school wrestling coach used to say "Practice does not make perfect. Practice makes permanent. PERFECT practice makes perfect."

If you do something enough properly, in theory you should naturally reproduce the same regardless of the situation. Preparation helps to remove variables from an equation... at least the variables that you have personal control over.

I draw using the thumb-side of my index finger and my hand , FWIW, moves to the grip with my index finger pointed towards the target, never in the trigger well. I'd like to think that doing this over and over again would have some effect on how I would draw if in a high-stress environment or situation.

Utah_Patriot · Aug 7, 2009

imported post

I have owned a Serpa holster for almost two years. I love it I use it with a web belt made by black hawk very secure.

I have used other holster's but find the Serpa holster offers me the best in firearm rentention. Easy to draw and reholster.

45acpForMe · Aug 7, 2009

imported post

wylde007 wrote:

"Practice does not make perfect. Practice makes permanent. PERFECT practice makes perfect."

I really like that saying. All my wrestling coach said to me was drop and give me 20... more. He also used to chase us around during our run with a whip so you never wanted to be the last man. (nearly broke my neck and did break my nose)

My holster drawer quickly filled up. First with IWB until I decided I was too fat to endure them. I have a couple leather holsters from Don Hume and Frist which I like. The only retention holsters I have are the SERPA and I love them. I have both belt and paddle but prefer the belt one. I agree that you nearly have to drop your drawers to get the paddle off so why bother. I personally didn't like thumb breaks and the SERPA felt very natural to me.

One other thing I like about the SERPA is the clips you can adjust to the size of the belt. Occassionaly I wear Khakis that only accept a 1" belt so a phillips and a few turns later it is secure on the smaller belt. Can't do that with my leather holsters.

wylde007 · Aug 7, 2009

imported post

I need a good holster for my 686+. All I have is a nylon and plastic el-cheapo that is a bear to draw.

I'm more afraid of shooting myself with that single/double than I am my Glock!

tom357 · Aug 7, 2009

imported post

bnkrazy wrote:

and after carrying my new MP9 in one for about a week, I'm sold. I love this thing. Faster draws, faster reholstering, perfectly accessible retention. What more could you want?

I haven't tried the pancake holster attachment yet, but I simply can't say enough good about this holster.

Anyone else have any gear that they aren't sure how they got along without? I'd like to know what else I'm missing out on.

I use the Blackhawk SERPA CQC for OWB carry (CC and OC). For me, the paddle configuration does a better job of keeping my service pistol close. If you enjoy the SERPA, you might want to be aware of the Safariland ALS holster line. Also top notch holsters.

ForCC and IWB Virginia tuck, Iuse a Brommeland MaxCon V, and it is by far the most comfortable IWB holster I've tried. I've had it for several years, now, and not felt the need to get anything else for IWB carry.

Tomahawk · Aug 7, 2009

imported post

I've been thinking about a Serpa BH for my 1911 for a while. Heard lots of good things about them, then heard some instructors were shunning them do to ND issues.

I like the Crossbreed Supertuck idea, except for the fact it's IWB, something I've never been able to get comfortable with. The guy in the video is wearing no undershirt, either, and when I try that the butt of the pistol always makes my skin sweat.

I keep coming back to my simple belt slide holster. It's the most comfortable, keeps the pistol tight against my side but OWB where I like it, and it's so small that without the gun no one seems to notice you're wearing a holster. Down side is that it doesn't provide protection for the muzzle and has no retention other than being tightly wedged in.

Drawer full of holsters, and still never happy...

wylde007 · Aug 7, 2009

imported post

Tomahawk wrote:

I've been thinking about a Serpa BH for my 1911 for a while.

They only make one model (for each side draw) that I know if. If you have the 4¼" barrel then you have more holster than gun, if you catch my meaning.

I was a little disappointed when I discovered this.

Otherwise a fine product. Still works as designed.

So I had always heard Serpa's were good...

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Legendary Warrior

Regular Member

Regular Member

Legendary Warrior

Accomplished Advocate

Campaign Veteran

Regular Member

Legendary Warrior

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Newbie

Regular Member

New member

Regular Member

Regular Member