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Thread: FINALLY! King County Metro OC training bulletin for drivers.

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    EA-Emergency Alarm(send police)
    TCC-Transit Control Center
    PRTT-Priority Request To Talk

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Excellent first post Warrenwilson!

    Welcome to OCDO and thanks for that bit of info.

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    Regular Member trevorthebusdriver's Avatar
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    Dang! You beat me to it Warren! Welcome. I'm the resident bus driver around here. PM me, we'll talk guns and busses.

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    I Oc'ed on the 174 all the way downtown.The driver just looked at me and smiled.Met j213 for lunch.In walkin around passed several bicycle cops that barely gave me a second glance.All in all never had a problem on a bus.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    trevorthebusdriver wrote:
    Dang! You beat me to it Warren! Welcome. I'm the resident bus driver around here. PM me, we'll talk guns and busses.
    You ain't the only one bro

    Now if CT & the rest would just do something similar
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    it good they are spreading the "its OK to OC word": but now i wonder if it is being implied, that there is no concern or difference between, loaded with proper credencials, or unloaded, and legal, with no permission slip requirement!
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    Regular Member knight_308's Avatar
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    That's fantastic!

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    2, 4, 5 A defender wrote:
    it good they are spreading the "its OK to OC word": but now i wonder if it is being implied, that there is no concern or difference between, loaded with proper credencials, or unloaded, and legal, with no permission slip requirement!
    The fact they're saying it's legal and not putting qualifiers on it is great - it takes the interpretation of law out of the hands of the bus drivers. There's no implications, simply a "don't freak out and call just because someone is open carrying, only do it if they're behaving in a way that warrants you freaking out and calling."
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    CT already has trained it's operators on this matter. Gray Peterson got 'em to do it first, and I got 'em to do a refresher course after one of their operators freaked out over a cased longarm.

    Kewl deal on the Metro bulletin!

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    warrenwilson wrote:


    SNIP "Police are the legal experts in this situation"
    Im proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    sv_libertarian wrote:
    CT already has trained it's operators on this matter. Gray Peterson got 'em to do it first, and I got 'em to do a refresher course after one of their operators freaked out over a cased longarm.

    Kewl deal on the Metro bulletin!
    Yeah, but they havn't officially told us that OC is, in and of its self, no reason to call in. They still hide behind the "If it makes you uncomfortable..." line :quirky
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Regular Member shad0wfax's Avatar
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    Metalhead47 wrote:
    sv_libertarian wrote:
    CT already has trained it's operators on this matter. Gray Peterson got 'em to do it first, and I got 'em to do a refresher course after one of their operators freaked out over a cased longarm.

    Kewl deal on the Metro bulletin!
    Yeah, but they havn't officially told us that OC is, in and of its self, no reason to call in. They still hide behind the "If it makes you uncomfortable..." line :quirky
    I disagree. They say specifically that
    Operators are expected to use good judgement and notify the Control Center for Transit Police assistance whenever there is concern for safety. If a person carrying a holstered firearm is exhibiting any threatening or unusual behavior, please call for assistance. [...] Any open display of a firearm outside a holster should cause an EA call to TCC, followed by a PRTT, when safe to do so. Any passenger exhibiting menacing, erratic, or irrational behavior while carrying a holstered gun should cause an EA call to TCC, followed by a PRTT, when safe. [...] Use caution when reacting to situations involving a customer with a firearm [...]
    The bold-faced emphasis was added by me. The underlining is in the bulletin. They very clearly list what types of behavior warrants a call. (It's essentially plain English for the legalese in 9.41.270 about manifesting an intent to intimidate or warranting alarm for the safety of others.)

    I think they do a pretty good job of educating the Operators of their responsibilities without making Criminal Justice 101 a job requirement.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    shad0wfax wrote:
    Metalhead47 wrote:
    sv_libertarian wrote:
    Yeah, but they havn't officially told us that OC is, in and of its self, no reason to call in. They still hide behind the "If it makes you uncomfortable..." line :quirky
    I disagree. They say specifically that
    Operators are expected to use good judgement and notify the Control Center for Transit Police assistance whenever there is concern for safety. If a person carrying a holstered firearm is exhibiting any threatening or unusual behavior, please call for assistance. [...] Any open display of a firearm outside a holster should cause an EA call to TCC, followed by a PRTT, when safe to do so. Any passenger exhibiting menacing, erratic, or irrational behavior while carrying a holstered gun should cause an EA call to TCC, followed by a PRTT, when safe. [...] Use caution when reacting to situations involving a customer with a firearm [...]
    The bold-faced emphasis was added by me. The underlining is in the bulletin. They very clearly list what types of behavior warrants a call. (It's essentially plain English for the legalese in 9.41.270 about manifesting an intent to intimidate or warranting alarm for the safety of others.)

    I think they do a pretty good job of educating the Operators of their responsibilities without making Criminal Justice 101 a job requirement.
    Yeah but I wasn't referring to Metro's bulletin, I was referring to Community Transit. They last officially addressed the issue to their drivers back in like December, and in that training bulletin plus further conversations I've had with management they've stopped short of recognizing that OC is legit.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Spokane's buses have small no-guns stickers. Anyone have info on that?

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    Spokane's buses have small no-guns stickers. Anyone have info on that?
    Just bring a large gun, and you'll be OK.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    kparker wrote:
    Spokane's buses have small no-guns stickers. Anyone have info on that?
    Just bring a large gun, and you'll be OK.


    :celebrate
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    kparker wrote:
    Spokane's buses have small no-guns stickers. Anyone have info on that?
    Just bring a large gun, and you'll be OK.
    Kinda like the "No revolvers" stickers I see. Good thing I carry a semi-auto.

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    Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum. Very interesting. I googled the subject after seeing the base bulletin.

    One thing I'm still a bit confused on... I saw some folks on this forum post that a "loaded" gun in any kind of vehicle requires a CPL. But this Metro policy appears to indicate it's ok for OC on a bus (which I'm perfectly happy about).

    I saw someone else post that maybe a bus driver could ask an OC person to show their CPL before boarding the bus to verify their legal authority to have a loaded weapon in a vehicle.

    Seems a bit confusing. I'll be following Metro policy on this, of course. But I'd appreciate further insights.



    Thanks,

    Another bus driver.

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    busdrivertoo wrote:
    Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum. Very interesting. I googled the subject after seeing the base bulletin.

    One thing I'm still a bit confused on... I saw some folks on this forum post that a "loaded" gun in any kind of vehicle requires a CPL. But this Metro policy appears to indicate it's ok for OC on a bus (which I'm perfectly happy about).

    I saw someone else post that maybe a bus driver could ask an OC person to show their CPL before boarding the bus to verify their legal authority to have a loaded weapon in a vehicle.

    Seems a bit confusing. I'll be following Metro policy on this, of course. But I'd appreciate further insights.



    Thanks,

    Another bus driver.
    Welcome!

    I read many of the same posts you did and came to this conclusion;

    1. A loaded gun in a vehicle does require a CPL (including the metro buses)
    2. It is OK to open carry on Metro Bus
    3. You are not required to show your CPL to anyone but LEO's
    4. Failure to show your CPL to the bus driver should they ask for it could lead to them asking you to not ride their bus and that would end the bus ride.



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    Regular Member gsx1138's Avatar
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    DEROS72 wrote:
    I Oc'ed on the 174 all the way downtown.The driver just looked at me and smiled.Met j213 for lunch.In walkin around passed several bicycle cops that barely gave me a second glance.All in all never had a problem on a bus.
    Yeah, but you look like a cop DEROS. :P
    "Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world." ~ Musashi

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    Regular Member shad0wfax's Avatar
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    SpokaneIrish wrote:
    Spokane's buses have small no-guns stickers. Anyone have info on that?
    The long story short: You can openly carry a handgun on the bus, but you must have a valid CPL if it's loaded. You can openly carry any unloaded firearm on the bus without a CPL, but the open carry of a long-arm may get you into trouble under RCW 9.41.270 unless you're very careful. (It's probably not a good idea.)

    STA is currently training their drivers (it began with their para-transit drivers) that the open carry and concealed carry of a firearm is lawful under certain circumstances. Some drivers don't bat an eye at it and other drivers still react and place calls to dispatch. Be courteous and things should be fine for you.

    Here's what STA has to say:

    ARTICLE III -- REGULATION OF CONDUCT
    A. PROHIBITED CONDUCT
    The following conduct is prohibited on STA transit vehicles, within or upon STA facilities and properties, and in connection with STA's provision of public transportation services:

    [SNIP]

    6.
    Carrying any flammable liquid, explosive, acid, or other article or material likely to cause harm to others except that nothing herein shall prevent a person from carrying a cigarette, cigar, or pipe lighter or carrying a firearm or ammunition in a way that is not otherwise prohibited by law; (RCW 9.91.025/SMC 10.10.100)

    [SNIP]

    11.
    Carrying, exhibiting, displaying, or drawing any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons, unless otherwise authorized by law; (RCW 9.41.270)


    In other words, STA is being sneaky. They're referring to the bus code, which prohibits the unlawful carry of firearms and they're referring to RCW 9.41.270 which we're all well-aware of if we Open-Carry regularly. The stickers prohibiting weapons are toothless, so long as you are carrying in accordance with state law. They have them there to deter the ignorant.

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