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Thread: Brandishing vs transfering firearm to vehicle mounted holster

  1. #1
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    VA law states…

    § 18.2-282. Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.
    A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured…


    I have seen posts/pictures of people of having holsters mounted in their vehicles in an effort to comply with VA law…


    § 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

    1. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material;… <snip>
    …he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.
    How do people transfer from body holster to vehicle-mounted holster and attempt to minimize the screams from the sheeple that OMG he has a gun and is waving it around and then face possible arrest?


    Or am I being overly nervous?


    Thanks for your input.



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    "induce fear" is the important phrase

    Lets say some idiot calls 911 on you. You claiming "I was transferring my firearm to my mounted holster" would stand up as a defense if you actually have a mounted holster you are putting the firearm in.

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    hsmith wrote:
    "induce fear" is the important phrase

    Lets say some idiot calls 911 on you. You claiming "I was transferring my firearm to my mounted holster" would stand up as a defense if you actually have a mounted holster you are putting the firearm in.
    Man that was quick. [img]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/emcdavel/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/img]

    No mounted holster yet. I don't want a uncovered trigger on my Glock when I drive so I transfer it to an old holster sitting on the passenger seat.



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    Overly nervous is natural. You are very aware of the rights and responsibilites that come with carrying any firearm. May I suggest that you develop a system or method for the transfer and stick with it every time you make the transfer. It will become second nature.

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    kenny wrote:
    ...May I suggest that you develop a system or method for the transfer and stick with it every time you make the transfer. It will become second nature.
    That was my intent with this post. In order to develop a system I am asking what works and what does not.







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    If someone wets their pants because they somehow saw me move my gun from my holster to a spot in my truck, that's their problem. I don't see any rational thinking person construing that as purposefully inciting fear in another person.

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    nova wrote:
    If someone [gets fearful] because they somehow saw me move my gun from my holster to a spot in my truck, that's their problem. I don't see any rational thinking person construing that as purposefully inciting fear in another person.
    +1

    When I first started OCing my mind was all full of various advices "to be careful about scaring people", "calls to police", etc.

    I got tired of being surreptitious and the inconvenience and aggravation of trying to put on a holster, or maybe take off an IWB while seated in the car, etc. etc. etc.

    Now, I just smoothly transfer the weapon from where ever it is to where ever I want it. Right out in public (parking lot), usually standing outside the car. The heck with nervous nellies.

    Don't get me wrong. I don't do function checks, or loaded status checks or anything of that sort. Just smoothly, quickly, but without dangerous haste, transfer the gun from where ever to where ever.

    Someone would have to be looking right at me to see it. And, if I am transferring it to a belt holster from the car holster for OC, they are going to continue seeing it anyway.

    The transfer usually happens so quickly that I doubt anybody would have time to get nervous before the transfer was complete. If they stay nervous after that, the heck with them.

    Besides, if they call the police, the dispatcher needs to be asking, "What is he doing with the gun?"
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen.

    Thank for you response. It does help this newbie.



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    PWC_Glock wrote:
    kenny wrote:
    ...May I suggest that you develop a system or method for the transfer and stick with it every time you make the transfer. It will become second nature.
    That was my intent with this post. In order to develop a system I am asking what works and what does not.
    That is going to depend on the circumstances that exist at the time you make the transfer, such as clothes, vehicle, surroundings etc.. There are factors in your day to day activity that are only seen through your eyes.

    I use to make the transfer all the time. Then I realized that the safest place for my firearm was in a holster on my person, uncomfortable while sitting or not. As a for placing a firearm in a vehicle in a compartment or holster I would make sure that the holster was permanently attached and has proper retention (as the one on my belt is). If in a container it would physically secured and inoperable. In any other condition the firearm is a danger (negligence) to anyone who is in or approaches my vehicle. I would also be accountable for any accidental discharge or other negligence on my part.

    If this transfer is something you must do regularly I suggest you contact your insurance agent and purchase an umbrella liability policy.

    By the way, I don't play with dynamite or hand grenades either.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    kenny wrote:
    If this transfer is something you must do regularly I suggest you contact your insurance agent and purchase an umbrella liability policy.
    A good liability policy is highly recommended in any regard.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    What kind of liability policy would someone ask for when calling their insurance? Any sort of particular questions to bring up?

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    Milbars wrote:
    What kind of liability policy would someone ask for when calling their insurance? Any sort of particular questions to bring up?
    Look for wording that covers any legal use of a firearm and does not except negligence. IMO minimum coverage is $1 million. Shop different companies because some will not kiss you after.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    About 10 years ago I was arrested for brandishing after I carried my pistol from my car to my house. Was wearing sweats that wouldn't have held it's weight. Neighbor's kid was in the yard and saw me. Neighbor called LEOs then went to magistrate and got warrant. Charge was held for one year then dismissed. Judge said kids and guns were never a good mix.

    Now, to comply with VA law, I must draw and unload before I lock up my weapon in my car, every day before I go get my kid from school, then reload, cycle and holster after I get back in the car. It's only a matter of time...
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
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    paramedic70002 wrote:
    About 10 years ago I was arrested for brandishing after I carried my pistol from my car to my house. Was wearing sweats that wouldn't have held it's weight. Neighbor's kid was in the yard and saw me. Neighbor called LEOs then went to magistrate and got warrant. Charge was held for one year then dismissed. Judge said kids and guns were never a good mix.

    Now, to comply with VA law, I must draw and unload before I lock up my weapon in my car, every day before I go get my kid from school, then reload, cycle and holster after I get back in the car. It's only a matter of time...
    Placing gun in brown paper bag will avoid this situation. Know one or two people that keep sandwich bags in their vehicle for just such occasions - nice thing is that you can grip the gun without brandishing.

    School law is begging to be changed.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    paramedic70002 wrote:
    About 10 years ago I was arrested for brandishing after I carried my pistol from my car to my house. Was wearing sweats that wouldn't have held it's weight. Neighbor's kid was in the yard and saw me. Neighbor called LEOs then went to magistrate and got warrant. Charge was held for one year then dismissed. Judge said kids and guns were never a good mix.

    Now, to comply with VA law, I must draw and unload before I lock up my weapon in my car, every day before I go get my kid from school, then reload, cycle and holster after I get back in the car. It's only a matter of time...
    Placing gun in brown paper bag will avoid this situation. Know one or two people that keep sandwich bags in their vehicle for just such occasions - nice thing is that you can grip the gun without brandishing.

    School law is begging to be changed.

    Yata hey
    What? Explain a little better. Sounds like you still need a CHP..... From what he was indicating he doesn't have one.

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    Neplusultra wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    paramedic70002 wrote:
    About 10 years ago I was arrested for brandishing after I carried my pistol from my car to my house. Was wearing sweats that wouldn't have held it's weight. Neighbor's kid was in the yard and saw me. Neighbor called LEOs then went to magistrate and got warrant. Charge was held for one year then dismissed. Judge said kids and guns were never a good mix.

    Now, to comply with VA law, I must draw and unload before I lock up my weapon in my car, every day before I go get my kid from school, then reload, cycle and holster after I get back in the car. It's only a matter of time...
    Placing gun in brown paper bag will avoid this situation. Know one or two people that keep sandwich bags in their vehicle for just such occasions - nice thing is that you can grip the gun without brandishing.

    School law is begging to be changed.

    Yata hey
    What? Explain a little better. Sounds like you still need a CHP..... From what he was indicating he doesn't have one.
    The brown paper bag was in reference to his first comment. Obviously one needs a CHP to this.

    If he is driving on school property legally with a handgun, he has a CHP, but he cannot exit the vehicle with it.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Neplusultra wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    paramedic70002 wrote:
    About 10 years ago I was arrested for brandishing after I carried my pistol from my car to my house. Was wearing sweats that wouldn't have held it's weight. Neighbor's kid was in the yard and saw me. Neighbor called LEOs then went to magistrate and got warrant. Charge was held for one year then dismissed. Judge said kids and guns were never a good mix.

    Now, to comply with VA law, I must draw and unload before I lock up my weapon in my car, every day before I go get my kid from school, then reload, cycle and holster after I get back in the car. It's only a matter of time...
    Placing gun in brown paper bag will avoid this situation. Know one or two people that keep sandwich bags in their vehicle for just such occasions - nice thing is that you can grip the gun without brandishing.

    School law is begging to be changed.

    Yata hey
    What? Explain a little better. Sounds like you still need a CHP..... From what he was indicating he doesn't have one.
    The brown paper bag was in reference to his first comment. Obviously one needs a CHP to this.

    If he is driving on school property legally with a handgun, he has a CHP, but he cannot exit the vehicle with it.

    Yata hey
    Nor can he leave it in the vehicle unless it is unloaded and stowed away, or have I got that wrong?

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    [reaching for my penalty flag]
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    Brandishing is a general intent offense; the intent that the Commonwealth would have to prove is the intent to create fear in the mind of another person. It is irrelevant whether or not another person actually reacted to the sight of the firearm in fear. The essense of the offense is the intent to intimidate or coerce another person by use of the weapon.

    That said, my standard line for such situations is that it's better to never be hauled into court than to have a good defense, so your nervousness is well-founded. There are some cities and counties in Virginia, in which the cops take the position that if they can't see the gun as they approach the vehicle, then it's "concealed". I've argued (particularly in Fairfax County) that "hidden from common observation" requires observation; such that a weapon is concealed if one who cared to look, he would have seen it. The cop can't say it's "hidden" if he didn't bother to look, but it was simply outside his field of vision. The response I typically gotten in the Fairfax GDC is, "Counselor, I've made my ruling; if you don't like it, you may note your appeal to the Circuit Court."
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Would a tort liability policy be a possibility here? I know most are written for professional actions, but with some cash outlay would an underwriter agree to take on tort liability such as this?

    BTW, while I agree that case and statute law require intent to induce fear on the part of the person accussed of brandishing, the Va. Supreme Court has also ruled that meer apprehension of fear is not sufficient for self defense. Go figure.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
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    skidmark wrote:
    Would a tort liability policy be a possibility here?
    Hey! How about a no-fault civil rights violation policy?

    Cop violates my rights, I get paid automatically?


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Milbars wrote:
    What kind of liability policy would someone ask for when calling their insurance? Any sort of particular questions to bring up?
    I think this was said earlier, it is called an Umbrella Policy. I know they are available to homeowners. Contact your local insurance agent. It covers you where ever you are such as home, work and back and forth.

    A quick example since this is not an insurance forum. Say you are entering or exiting a building and you are being a true Virginia Gentleman and hold the door for someone. For some reason the doors slips and smacks the person in their face breaking their nose. The person sues and the owner of the door. The owner of the door is not responsible as you were doing the good deed. You would be covered as long as you were not negligent.

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    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Now, to comply with VA law, I must draw and unload before I lock up my weapon in my car, every day before I go get my kid from school, then reload, cycle and holster after I get back in the car. It's only a matter of time...
    Do you have to get out of the car to pick up your child, or is he escorted to you?
    James Reynolds

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    The school has a strict policy of the parent coming in and signing out the yutes. They have yet to realize that many notorious and noteworthy characters from history have taken my child. Adolph Hitler, George Washington, Jeffrey Dahmer... They also failed to realize that a strange woman, not on the approved list, picked him up one day last spring. Such warm fuzzies!
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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  25. #25
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    kenny wrote:
    PWC_Glock wrote:
    kenny wrote:
    ...May I suggest that you develop a system or method for the transfer and stick with it every time you make the transfer. It will become second nature.
    That was my intent with this post. In order to develop a system I am asking what works and what does not.
    <snip>
    Then I realized that the safest place for my firearm was in a holster on my person, uncomfortable while sitting or not.<snip>

    That is my thought as well. I guess it is time to submit my CHP paperwork.

    The more I draw/re-holster my firearm, the more I risk an ND. I can not holster carry in my car since the firearm is easily hidden by the seat-belt, center console, and bucket seats.

    If I holster carried on my belt, and was pulled over. The only view an officer would have is from the front.

    My body/seat belt/Center Console/Seats blocks out 270 degrees of vision.






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