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Thread: **** SCHOOL ZONE QUESTION ****

  1. #1
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    As far as I can read about the school zone, this applies to anybody that is not licensed by the state to legally carry a firearm in that state?


    If you hold a CCW for that state it does not apply?


    Please tell me what you think? (Highlighted REDarea below)






    It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone. [/b]



    There are a few exceptions to the law which, such as being on private property, having been licensed to carry a firearm by the state where the school zone is located, or the firearm being unloaded and in a locked case. Title 18 U.S.C. Section 921 Definitions determines that a school zone is within 1000 feet of a school.




  2. #2
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    maldog wrote:
    As far as I can read about the school zone, this applies to anybody that is not licensed by the state to legally carry a firearm in that state?


    If you hold a CCW for that state it does not apply?


    Please tell me what you think? (Highlighted REDarea below)






    It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.



    There are a few exceptions to the law which, such as being on private property, having been licensed to carry a firearm by the state where the school zone is located, or the firearm being unloaded and in a locked case. Title 18 U.S.C. Section 921 Definitions determines that a school zone is within 1000 feet of a school.


    If your state does not have a more restrictive school zone law than the federal one (which I believe your quoting from?) then yes, if you hold a resident CCW your exempt in that state. Check your own state laws. Some give no exemption for permit holders.
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Him: "I carry my gun concealed"
    Me: "You're not very good at it"
    Him: "What do you mean?"
    Me: "I know you have a gun"
    End of conversation.

  3. #3
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    Thanks Turbodog!

    That quote is from Nevada.

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    There are other schools of thought that hold that any concealed carry permit that is recognized as valid by the state you are currently in will provide the exception you inquired about. Your local law school library may be able to help you find case law that indicates how the judicial branch of your state/fereral circuit has interpreted the law.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
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    There are no Nevada statutes regarding school zones other than outlawing possession on school grounds. The red part was a quote from the open carry pamphlet in the NV section of this forum but does not represent any official opinion.


    In my opinion the federal law is unconstitutional. In Lopez vs. US in 1996 the Supreme Court of the United States said it was an unconstitutional extension of the commerce clause because guns in school zones does notrelate tointerstate commerce. Congress then revised the law to basically say that all guns have moved in interstate commerce at some point in timeandthat it is unlawful tohave a gun in a school zone that moved in interstate commerce.

    Disregard this "law" at your own risk. If a conviction were to be upheld on the modified law it would be a felony offense.

    As far as whether a concealed firearm permit would protect you:

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...---000-.html#q




    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    (iii) that is—
    (I) not loaded; and
    (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

    (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
    (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
    (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
    (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises
    There is the exceptions. Notice how badly it is worded. It could be construed in several ways. Nevada issues a concealed firearm permit, which licenses one to carry a concealed firearm.

    if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so
    Does "licensed to do so" refer to a "licensed to possess a firearm" or "licensed to possess a firearm in a school zone" or any firearm license or what?

    InNevada,the concealedfirearm permit isa license to conceal, but is it a license topossess a firearm in a school zone?

    I wouldn'tnormally call it alicense to possess a firearmsince possession of a firearm under state lawis legal without the permit as long as the firearm is not concealed upon the person. But it does license you to possess a firearm that is concealed.

    It is possible that a CFP could protect you, but I don't know. This exception was also added to the law when congress revised it after US. vs. Lopez. As far as I know there have been no cases involving this law at allsince then.

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    Felid`Maximus wrote:
    There are no Nevada statutes regarding school zones other than outlawing possession on school grounds. The red part was a quote from the open carry pamphlet in the NV section of this forum but does not represent any official opinion.


    In my opinion the federal law is unconstitutional. In Lopez vs. US in 1996 the Supreme Court of the United States said it was an unconstitutional extension of the commerce clause because guns in school zones does notrelate tointerstate commerce. Congress then revised the law to basically say that all guns have moved in interstate commerce at some point in timeandthat it is unlawful tohave a gun in a school zone that moved in interstate commerce.

    Disregard this "law" at your own risk. If a conviction were to be upheld on the modified law it would be a felony offense.

    As far as whether a concealed firearm permit would protect you:

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...---000-.html#q




    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    (iii) that is—
    (I) not loaded; and
    (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

    (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
    (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
    (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
    (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises
    There is the exceptions. Notice how badly it is worded. It could be construed in several ways. Nevada issues a concealed firearm permit, which licenses one to carry a concealed firearm.

    if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so
    Does "licensed to do so" refer to a "licensed to possess a firearm" or "licensed to possess a firearm in a school zone" or any firearm license or what?

    InNevada,the concealedfirearm permit isa license to conceal, but is it a license topossess a firearm in a school zone?

    I wouldn'tnormally call it alicense to possess a firearmsince possession of a firearm under state lawis legal without the permit as long as the firearm is not concealed upon the person. But it does license you to possess a firearm that is concealed.

    It is possible that a CFP could protect you, but I don't know. This exception was also added to the law when congress revised it after US. vs. Lopez. As far as I know there have been no cases involving this law at allsince then.
    Hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now you got me more confused than a WalMart greeter.

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    My interest is peaked. Perhaps you could twist it that say in a state like Kentucky where one is allowed to carry a firearm openly without a permit that you are licensed to do so. The license being the Kentucky state constitution which says you have permission. That's all a permit/license is, written permission. Well if the state constitution says you're permitted to carry then does that not qualify as being licensed?

    Basically, wouldn't the state constitution qualify as a license?

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    N00blet45 wrote:
    My interest is peaked. Perhaps you could twist it that say in a state like Kentucky where one is allowed to carry a firearm openly without a permit that you are licensed to do so. The license being the Kentucky state constitution which says you have permission. That's all a permit/license is, written permission. Well if the state constitution says you're permitted to carry then does that not qualify as being licensed?

    Basically, wouldn't the state constitution qualify as a license?
    Nice try but don't recommend using that as your defense in court.

    A license or permit is generally construed to be a formal/written authorization to do something specific. I feel sure that the legal definition is somewhat similar.

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  9. #9
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    From the Kentucky state constitution's bill of rights:
    Seventh: The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons.


    If that's not formally written permission I don't know what is. I do understand what you're saying as far as legal defense.

    In all honesty if I was a lawyer (I'm not) I'd argue against the school zone law based on the flimsy interstate commerce clause that is the underpinning of Congress' authority for passing the law. If they can claim that any firearm that is transported from one state to another is open to any restriction then what exactly is stopping them from saying that newspapers are open to any restriction they want? I mean the paper, ink, and printing machines aren't all from the same state I'm sure. How about the internet? Text and images pass from one state to another. How about religion? Bibles, crosses, veils, habits, and so on are surely made from material that cross state lines.

    The interstate commerce clause is the weakest argument and the most abused.


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