Who Sponsored TN HCP Legislation?

Neo · Aug 7, 2009

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The more I think about it, the more I'm coming to believe that the HCP model TN has adopted (Statewide uniformity, "Shall Issue", Open or Concealed Carry, No harrassing) would be a great model for AL. Can any of you tell me who sponsored your legislation? I'd like to present it to my representatives here in AL and lobby for something similar. Many thanks!

Mike · Aug 8, 2009

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Neo wrote:

The more I think about it, the more I'm coming to believe that the HCP model TN has adopted (Statewide uniformity, "Shall Issue", Open or Concealed Carry, No harrassing) would be a great model for AL. Can any of you tell me who sponsored your legislation? I'd like to present it to my representatives here in AL and lobby for something similar. Many thanks!

Uh, you want to repeal the right to open carry without permit in Alabama? Why?

Neo · Aug 8, 2009

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The AL Constitution may give me the right to OC, but a constitutional "right" is not a "right" unless I can freely exercise it.Have a look at this thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum59/16980.html. Basically, the Madison County Sheriff has said he won't tolerate it and the Huntsville City Police have said I'm likely to have officers draw down on me. This is the county and cityin which I live. What good does constitutional OC do for me without uniformity in LEO education&response. Furthermore, I don't have a desire to be the test case for OC in AL. It will be simplerand easier tojust work with other likeminded individuals in AL to support our legislators in the establishmentof a regulated OC/CC system similar to TN. That way, even if county or local LEOs don't like the idea, at least they willknow that they will be called into question for stopping me without just cause!

If you have another suggestion, I'm certainly open to it, but I just not in a position to get into civil disobedience or lengthy litigation.

P.S. Still waiting for the name of the legislator(s)...

Neo · Aug 11, 2009

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Thanks to all who have considered this post. As it turns out, I've made some contacts in AL who may be willing to push the constitutional issue in our legislature. Since this would be the preferable route, I'm going to pursue it first.

Mike · Aug 11, 2009

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Neo wrote:

I just not in a position to get into civil disobedience or lengthy litigation.

civil Obedience you mean - if you are detained or arrested for following the law, you should be able to find an attonrey to take the case on a contingency arrangement- others have done so around the coutnry - the only way the police leadership will change their ways if they are sued - thats get's everybody's attention.

kwikrnu · Feb 26, 2010

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I wouldn't trade unlicensed open carry for shall issue concealed or open carry. We have to pay $115 for the permit, $$$ for the 9 hour State approved training course, $50 every four years for renewal. Since it is against the law to carry and a HCP is only a defense we can be stop arrested at the whim of LEO's for the most part.

Believe it or not I think Democrat Doug Jackson is probably one of the more influencial members of the Senate. He seems more interested in gun legislation than most republicans. In fact he has answered my emails and I don't even live in his district. I have repeatedly emailed my republican senator and republican representative and they haven't returned any emails.

:banghead:

kwikrnu · Feb 26, 2010

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Mike wrote:

civil Obedience you mean - if you are detained or arrested for following the law, you should be able to find an attonrey to take the case on a contingency arrangement- others have done so around the coutnry - the only way the police leadership will change their ways if they are sued - thats get's everybody's attention.

This is probably the quickest way to get satisfaction. Legislation can take years upon years. We've had shall issue permitted carry in TN since 1994/5. Fifteen years and we still have issues like preemption, carry in restaurants, carry in parks, transporting rifles, etc. I've gotten to the point where I am tired of preemption and am doing something about it. I emailed my reps with no response. I researched and through the TN freedom of info acts I got some TN AG opinions. Made sure I knew the laws and went for it. I've grown tired of cops violating my 4th ammendment rights so I make sure I have my audio recorder while I do this.

old dog · Feb 28, 2010

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I don't have a name for you. Tennessee is blessed with several lawmakers who understand.

As to off-license open carry I'm concerned that you attach too much importance to it. I am very much in favor of the Tennessee system. While people ideally should be allowed to carry unrestricted, unfortunately there are elements infesting our country that render this notion foolish if not insane.

If you favor totally unrestricted carrying of firearms I invite you to go to any Walmart on the weekend and then ask yourself if you really want these people wandering around legally armed.

Remember, a large proportion of the people making decisions for the country can't wait to sell us down the river for one more term. They don't give a tinker's dam for our heritage or our future. Thanks to them we have to accept restrictions on freedom in the interest of self-preservation. It's a devil's bargain but we're forced into it.

All that said, I'm not that big on open carry to begin with. There's a disquieting air of "look at me" about it that turns me off. But hey, that's just me.

kwikrnu · Feb 28, 2010

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old dog wrote:

I don't have a name for you. Tennessee is blessed with several lawmakers who understand.

As to off-license open carry I'm concerned that you attach too much importance to it. I am very much in favor of the Tennessee system. While people ideally should be allowed to carry unrestricted, unfortunately there are elements infesting our country that render this notion foolish if not insane.

If you favor totally unrestricted carrying of firearms I invite you to go to any Walmart on the weekend and then ask yourself if you really want these people wandering around legally armed.

Remember, a large proportion of the people making decisions for the country can't wait to sell us down the river for one more term. They don't give a tinker's dam for our heritage or our future. Thanks to them we have to accept restrictions on freedom in the interest of self-preservation. It's a devil's bargain but we're forced into it.

All that said, I'm not that big on open carry to begin with. There's a disquieting air of "look at me" about it that turns me off. But hey, that's just me.

The problem is people like you. On one hand you complain that you don't want restrictions on freedom and lament the lawmakers who sell us down the river. On the other you don't want the regular joes to carry and want to restrict their god given rights.

old dog · Feb 28, 2010

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There are some people, such as you, that one would wish to offend.

kwikrnu · Feb 28, 2010

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old dog wrote:

There are some people, such as you, that one would wish to offend.

I invite you to go to any Walmart on the weekend and then ask yourself if you really want these people wandering around legally armed.

You succeded in offending me and everyone who shops at walmart.

old dog · Feb 28, 2010

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Your inference that I was referring to average Joes is incorrect. Rules don't permit me to be more specific.

BTW, it's succeeded.

anhurset · Feb 28, 2010

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old dog wrote:

Your inference that I was referring to average Joes is incorrect. Rules don't permit me to be more specific.

Were you referring to the low income "white trash" "Joes"? Or perhaps you were only referring to african american "Joes"? I find your prejudicial and elitist attitude disgusting.

Who exactly, Old dog, do YOU think deserves the right to protect themselvs?

What race do the need to be?

How much money do they need to make?

What religion do they need to practice?

How do they need to dress?

Stop hiding behind the rules and tell us what makes you any better than a gun grabbing liberal?

Molon Labe -III

old dog · Feb 28, 2010

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I dont expect this to get by but I'll try just to ease your egalitarian pain.

I mean specifically, but not exclusively, illegal immigrants and nut-case Muslims who are hellbent on destroying my country.

IF THIS BE ELITISM MAKE THE MOST OF IT!

anhurset · Feb 28, 2010

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old dog wrote:

I dont expect this to get by but I'll try just to ease your egalitarian pain.

I mean specifically, but not exclusively, illegal immigrants and nut-case Muslims who are hellbent on destroying my country.

IF THIS BE ELITISM MAKE THE MOST OF IT!

If the Muslims are legal citizens then they have just as much right to protect them selves as you or I, regardless of their race or religious belief, to deny them that right is to punish them for something that you feel they might do.

As to the illegal immigrants, what makes you think they're not carrying as it is. If they are willing to break a federal law what makes you think a tiny little thing like a state permit is going to stop them?

And yes, I do believe that ALL law abiding citizens, regardless of race or creed, are entitled to the rights granted to us by the founders of this nation and the constitution of the united states.

Molon Labe -III

old dog · Mar 1, 2010

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So, it seems your position is that since our "irregular visitors" are carrying anyway we should go ahead and legitimize them. Interesting.

As to our Muslim brothers, they should be barred from the country as enemy agents. Their whole culture is anathema not merely to me but to civilization. I feel the same way about voodoo and santaria and all those nifty little jungle sects that practice cannibalism and human sacrifice.

When did our ethos become so perverted that we must welcome and even embrace all the semi-human detritus this pitiful planet can produce?

anhurset · Mar 1, 2010

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old dog wrote:

So, it seems your position is that since our "irregular visitors" are carrying anyway we should go ahead and legitimize them. Interesting.

As to our Muslim brothers, they should be barred from the country as enemy agents. Their whole culture is anathema not merely to me but to civilization. I feel the same way about voodoo and santaria and all those nifty little jungle sects that practice cannibalism and human sacrifice.

When did our ethos become so perverted that we must welcome and even embrace all the semi-human detritus this pitiful planet can produce?

No, what I'm saying is, that as law abiding citizens, we should not be punished and stripped of our rights in the failed attempt to keep a criminal from carrying.

As to your apparent hatred of religions other than Christianity, the Muslim/Islamic faith is based on Judaism, just like Christianity, and Voodoo and Santeria are both heavily rooted in Catholicism. Your religion is no better than any other, it's just as bloody and embraces cannibalism in one of it's core rituals.

Try putting down Mein Kampf and picking up a real book some time, you might learn something.

Molon Labe -III

old dog · Mar 1, 2010

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Since I am not religious, your plaint is irrelevant. End of discussion.

kwikrnu · Mar 1, 2010

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I'd like to know how you know who the illegal immigrants are. I speak spanish when I am out and about. How do you that my family and I are not illegals from some latin american country?

anhurset · Mar 1, 2010

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kwikrnu wrote:

I'd like to know how you know who the illegal immigrants are. I speak spanish when I am out and about. How do you that my family and I are not illegals from some latin american country?

I don't think it makes a difference to him Kwik.
What I'm getting from Old dog's posts is, that he feels, that it doesn't matter if you're a legal citizen or not, if you're not white enough, not speaking English and not dressed the right way then you deserve to be stopped and required to show your papers.
It's a fascist and elitist attitude reminiscent of Nazi Germany.

Molon Labe -III

Who Sponsored TN HCP Legislation?

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