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Thread: NCTimes.com: REGION: Police officers eyes opening to open carry (California)

  1. #1
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    Overall good report but too bad the reporter did not explain the law correctly re the restriction on loaded open carry in California - loaded open carry is only prohibited in incorporated areas of california, and in portions of unincorporated areas where the County, and only the County, has prohibited shooting. That's important because in those areas the police have no power to seize gun owners to check their guns to see if they are loaded.

    Anybody know where the reporter got this bit about open carry of long guns prohibited in California??

    ====

    http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/sd...538572eb5.html

    REGION: Police officers eyes opening to 'open carry'
    Carrying unloaded gun in plain sight not always illegal

    COLLEEN MENSCHING - cmensching@nctimes.com | Posted: Friday, August 7, 2009 8:25 pm | (6) Comments



    In April, Escondido police stopped a man outside a grocery store because he had a gun holstered at his side.

    The man wasn't arrested and he got his gun back at the end of the encounter, but he still filed a complaint with the department alleging his constitutional rights had been violated.

    That's when officers ended up receiving a tutorial on the legal issues of "open carry."

    Escondido officers aren't the only ones getting an education. Police training memos have been circulating throughout the state regarding what has become known as "the open carry movement" ---- citizens wearing unloaded firearms in public, either individually or as part of group demonstrations.

    In February, dozens of people wearing unloaded weapons in holsters attended a beach cleanup event in San Diego. A similar group took to the Village Faire area of Carlsbad last month and Carlsbad police said their gathering went off without a hitch.

    The gatherings are part of a larger trend ---- in recent years other states have been home to "open carry" demonstrations, including Ohio, Washington and New Hampshire. The demonstrations often protest restrictive gun laws.

    In California, people who want to carry a firearm frequently cite the difficulty of getting a permit from local law enforcement to carry a concealed gun. Without a permit, carrying a concealed firearm is illegal.

    But in California, holstering an unloaded gun in plain view is not necessarily illegal. There are rules, including that the gun cannot have a barrel longer than 16 inches ---- no rifles or shotguns allowed. [huh? - Mike S.]

    Officers are allowed to check a gun to make sure it's not loaded, but an officer who goes further than that without either consent or reasonable suspicion of criminal activity may be the one running afoul of the law.

    The man involved in the Escondido case, who in an e-mail identified himself only as "Nathan," alleged on his blog that one of the officers involved took not only his gun, but his wallet, the ammunition he kept separate from his gun, and a tape recorder he carried to record encounters with law enforcement.

    Nathan also sent a complaint to the department.

    In a response dated July 21, Escondido Sgt. Robert Healey didn't address whether the man's rights had been violated.

    But he wrote that an internal investigation "revealed the need for more training for our officers regarding citizens who open carry."

    "The training has been conducted and if you are contacted again, the officers should be aware of the laws surrounding open carry," Healey wrote.

    Politics, protection

    Valley Center resident Bill Laird, a member of the Escondido Fish & Game Association, said the primary goal of carrying a weapon is personal safety.

    "Somebody up to no good is going to look at you and say, 'There's a guy farther down the street that's going to be easier to rob than this guy,'" Laird said.

    But some gun owners are choosing to wear unloaded guns in public to create awareness about gun laws in California, which has a national reputation for strict ownership restrictions, he said.

    Laird said he has concealed weapons permits and he hasn't felt the need to carry a gun in plain sight ---- but he might consider it as part of a group demonstration.

    Tom Kendall, assistant chief range officer at the Escondido Fish & Game Association, said he didn't see much sense in carrying an unloaded gun for protection ---- though it could be used as a club ---- but he did see a political use for it.

    "If someone wants to practice open carry, I don't get any heartburn over it," Kendall said. "Sometimes we have to get a little bit noisy before people will really listen."

    What people need to listen to, Kendall said, is the argument that some firearms legislation infringes too much on Second Amendment rights of citizens and puts other rights at risk.

    "I'm sure somewhere there's a middle ground," Kendall said.

    In March, San Diego County Deputy District Attorney Robert Amador sent a memo about "open carry" issues to every law enforcement agency in the county. As long as officers understand the law, there won't be an influx of "open carry" cases going to court, he said.

    "When law enforcement knows about the open carry movement itself, then law enforcement follows the law and makes the contacts they're allowed to make," Amador said.

    A year ago, a Marine did end up with a court date after he was arrested on suspicion of illegal "open carry" at the Oceanside Fourth of July celebration, Oceanside Sgt. Kelan Poorman said.

    He said the man was arrested because there was a bullet chambered in the slide of the semi-automatic weapon, making it a loaded gun.

    None of the law enforcement agencies involved in the arrest could provide additional details about the case this week, but according to posts on a popular California gun owner's Web site, the Marine was never charged with the misdemeanor offense and the statute of limitations expired last month.

    Public concerns

    Open carriers present more than legal issues for officers to contend with, Escondido Lt. Bob Benton said. "Man with gun" calls can tie up police resources.

    "Anytime we have a person out in public with a gun, we get calls," Benton said. "We don't send just one officer ---- we send multiple officers because we don't know what this person's intention is. We may get multiple calls, which drains our dispatcher resources."

    Benton said the public is increasingly anxious about public acts of violence, such as shootings and bombings.

    "We also have to ask people (who are stopped for open carrying) to be patient with us. They don't know the call we got. We may have gotten the call as a robbery and we are going to respond accordingly," Benton said.

    One way open carriers can minimize the chance of tense encounters with police is by letting agencies know where they intend to carry, officials said.

    Benton also recommended checking with local law enforcement agencies to determine eligibility for "open carry." Felons, even if they have served their time, may not carry. The same is true for people convicted of domestic violence.

    There are also places, such as school campuses, that are subject to additional restrictions.

    "Some people don't realize the complexity of the laws," Benton said.

    Call staff writer Colleen Mensching at 760-739-6675.

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    RE: Open carry in California. My editorial.

    This is my opinion on the status of OC in California.

    First I would Like to personally thank everyone here at opencarry.org. Since joining I have had the opportunity to go through a wealth of knowledge and input in past threads. You all deserve a standing ovation for your diligence and patriotism! It was comical to see a handfull of the older posts from people who clearly were posting their views out of fear rather than knowledge.

    Thanks to everyone here I have been able to read up on OC restrictions and protocol and now feel competent enough in my knowledge to OC as well. I also have also contacted a couple LEO’s here in So. Cal. to get their take on OC and here is what they shared with me:

    Oceanside PD: They were helpful in directing me to local codes and told me OC is legal in Oceanside. They informed me that the had recently been trained regarding OC and almost wanted to show me their memo which I later found online. Everyone in the office discouraged me from OC. “I wouldn’t if I were you because” … blah blah. Also when I asked about clarification on transporting rules I was told some things that were way off and it was made to seem more restrictive than the law states.

    Vista sheriff: While dealing with a work related matter I had the chance to talk to a Vista sheriff about OC. He also told me they had recently been trained. He was all for it and said the only downside is that it will take a little while for the public to acclimate. Until then they will continue to respond to “ man with gun” calls but now the officers are aware of protocol and your rights. We also discussed how the federal govt. is overstepping it’s bounds re: the constitution. This guy was nice and a freedom loving patriot as well and I feel better knowing he is working in my community.

    The media is also helping to inform the public. The Reader and North County Times articles reach a lot of people and have done a fair job of spreading the word.

    In conclusion I feel we are now entering a transitional period were the police have been informed and the public is in the process. In my little corner of the world this is all thanks to cal guns, open carry.org, and a guy named Nathan. Nathan’s leadership in this area has made a direct impact on everyone in this area. He was one of the first to be in harms way of ignorance. Thanks to his knowledge, persistence, blog, video’s and freedom loving ways he has helped to enlighten the ignorant. Especially LEO’s but also myself. I know this issue is only one of many in regards to gun rights, but I feel this could help gain the momentum needed to pull a more educated public into the debate.

    Good times all.

     

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    I have been reading messages on this site for sometime now. This is the first time I have posted.

    When I read this part of this article I thought I would comment on it:

    'Benton also recommended checking with local law enforcement agencies to determine eligibility for "open carry." Felons, even if they have served their time, may not carry. The same is true for people convicted of domestic violence.'

    This subject has allows made me think, how does one lose one of his constitutional rights from being convicted of a certain class of criminal act?

    Now, I know the relational behind laws like this, that someone who has shown a propensity for criminal behavior should be restricted from possessing the means to assist in that behavior. However, I think there are constitutional means to achieve the same ends. Like added years to a sentence for current or future criminal convictions.

    I mean, think about it, would anyone stand-by and allow the government to say a man losses his first amendment right because he has a felony or domestic violence conviction. Or, how about his fourth amendment right, or his fifth, or sixth, or eighth?

    So, why the easy acceptance of the loss of the second amendment?

    Well just my thoughts on the subject.

    Morgan

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    Mike wrote:



    What people need to listen to, Kendall said, is the argument that some firearms legislation infringes too much on Second Amendment rights of citizens and puts other rights at risk.

    "I'm sure somewhere there's a middle ground," Kendall said.
    Of course I agree with Kendall's statement about "too much (legislative)infringement", but I take issue with his comment about "some middle ground". The antis have for years demanded the stars then settled for the moon, knowing that people always yearn for the so-called middle ground as though that's the civilized way. BS! How much "middle ground" does anyone talk of regarding freedom of speech or religion??? Hardly any, and that's because once you start to allow rights to be tampered with by legislators, they quickly become privileges, not rights!

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    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    Mike wrote:



    What people need to listen to, Kendall said, is the argument that some firearms legislation infringes too much on Second Amendment rights of citizens and puts other rights at risk.

    "I'm sure somewhere there's a middle ground," Kendall said.
    Of course I agree with Kendall's statement about "too much (legislative)infringement", but I take issue with his comment about "some middle ground".* The antis have for years demanded the stars then settled for the moon, knowing that people always yearn for the so-called middle ground as though that's the civilized way.* BS!* How much "middle ground" does anyone talk of regarding freedom of speech or religion???* Hardly any, and that's because once you start to allow rights to be tampered with by legislators, they quickly become privileges, not rights!
    Well said, I do believe you have stated my thought's with more eloquence than I could have.

    Morgan

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    oROSSCOo wrote:
    RE: Open carry in California. My editorial.

    This is my opinion on the status of OC in California.

    First I would Like to personally thank everyone here at opencarry.org. Since joining I have had the opportunity to go through a wealth of knowledge and input in past threads. You all deserve a standing ovation for your diligence and patriotism! It was comical to see a handfull of the older posts from people who clearly were posting their views out of fear rather than knowledge.

    Thanks to everyone here I have been able to read up on OC restrictions and protocol and now feel competent enough in my knowledge to OC as well. I also have also contacted a couple LEO’s here in So. Cal. to get their take on OC and here is what they shared with me:

    Oceanside PD: They were helpful in directing me to local codes and told me OC is legal in Oceanside. They informed me that the had recently been trained regarding OC and almost wanted to show me their memo which I later found online. Everyone in the office discouraged me from OC. “I wouldn’t if I were you because” … blah blah. Also when I asked about clarification on transporting rules I was told some things that were way off and it was made to seem more restrictive than the law states.

    Vista sheriff: While dealing with a work related matter I had the chance to talk to a Vista sheriff about OC. He also told me they had recently been trained. He was all for it and said the only downside is that it will take a little while for the public to acclimate. Until then they will continue to respond to “ man with gun” calls but now the officers are aware of protocol and your rights. We also discussed how the federal govt. is overstepping it’s bounds re: the constitution. This guy was nice and a freedom loving patriot as well and I feel better knowing he is working in my community.

    The media is also helping to inform the public. The Reader and North County Times articles reach a lot of people and have done a fair job of spreading the word.

    In conclusion I feel we are now entering a transitional period were the police have been informed and the public is in the process. In my little corner of the world this is all thanks to cal guns, open carry.org, and a guy named Nathan. Nathan’s leadership in this area has made a direct impact on everyone in this area. He was one of the first to be in harms way of ignorance. Thanks to his knowledge, persistence, blog, video’s and freedom loving ways he has helped to enlighten the ignorant. Especially LEO’s but also myself. I know this issue is only one of many in regards to gun rights, but I feel this could help gain the momentum needed to pull a more educated public into the debate.

    Good times all.

     
    That Nathan guy is me, by the way

    Interesting about the cops getting training. Oceanside is still nuclear to me though because of their illegal municipal ordinance.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    The reporter is also absolutely WRONG about it not being legal to Open Carry a shotgun of a rifle. It is not only legal to Open Carry an unloaded shotgun or rifle, it is also legal to concealed carry an unloaded shotgun or rifle.

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    People who need to be educated about open carry (loaded or unloaded): Police, police dispatchers and news reporters.

    Having the police educated goes without saying - one cannot enforce the law unless one knows what the law is.

    Having the police dispatchers educated makes it easier for the police, and may not even require their interaction to begin with. The police dispatcher or 911 operator should inquire if the person carrying the firearm is doing anything with it other than just carrying it, and then pass that on to the police. Without that little bit of information, the "law enforcement" people really have no idea of what to expect, and may well expect the worst.

    Lastly, someone from this site, or CalGuns needs to inform the news reporters of the errors contained in their report so as to avoid a repeat performance further down the line.

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    I just called and left a message with the information about open carrying of a long gun being perfectly legal, her VM says she usually works Sunday through Thursday. Hopefully she'll post a correction.

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    bigtoe416 wrote:
    I just called and left a message with the information about open carrying of a long gun being perfectly legal, her VM says she usually works Sunday through Thursday. Hopefully she'll post a correction.
    I submitted corrections and got the story amended.

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    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    Mike wrote:



    What people need to listen to, Kendall said, is the argument that some firearms legislation infringes too much on Second Amendment rights of citizens and puts other rights at risk.

    "I'm sure somewhere there's a middle ground," Kendall said.
    Of course I agree with Kendall's statement about "too much (legislative)infringement", but I take issue with his comment about "some middle ground". The antis have for years demanded the stars then settled for the moon, knowing that people always yearn for the so-called middle ground as though that's the civilized way. BS! How much "middle ground" does anyone talk of regarding freedom of speech or religion??? Hardly any, and that's because once you start to allow rights to be tampered with by legislators, they quickly become privileges, not rights!
    That's because people are way too willing to freely give up their rights. I've never understood that. Why? Plus they forget the 2A says..."shall not be infringed." There's my middle ground.


    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    Mike wrote:
    Public concerns

    Open carriers present more than legal issues for officers to contend with, Escondido Lt. Bob Benton said. "Man with gun" calls can tie up police resources.

    "Anytime we have a person out in public with a gun, we get calls," Benton said. "We don't send just one officer ---- we send multiple officers because we don't know what this person's intention is. We may get multiple calls, which drains our dispatcher resources." Really...I thought the majority of UOC'ers who post on this site report that they don't get noticed that much at all. Some even going months before anyone notices their UOC'ing. Maybe we need to start a thread to fight this highly chargedpiece of political propagandathat simply keeps tract of this...such as "UOC'ed today, nobody noticed."

    Benton said the public is increasingly anxious about public acts of violence, such as shootings and bombings. I don't know, is it just me or does the term "anxious" kind of make us out to be a little "jumpy"? Hmm, interesting choice of words here.

    "We also have to ask people (who are stopped for open carrying) to be patient with us. They don't know the call we got. We may have gotten the call as a robbery and we are going to respond accordingly," Benton said. Be patient with them? Are you kidding? Their the ones walking around with loaded guns, not us! Seriously, you want to be considered a professional police force, well then now that you know, don't act like you don't know.

    One way open carriers can minimize the chance of tense encounters with police is by letting agencies know where they intend to carry, officials said. OK, sure...everywhere its legal. Any other questions?

    Benton also recommended checking with local law enforcement agencies to determine eligibility for "open carry." Felons, even if they have served their time, may not carry. The same is true for people convicted of domestic violence. LOL, I can imagine that call..."uhm..I'm a felon and I'm gonna start UOC, that's OK right?" Sometimes public officials say the dandiest things. Gosh golly, he's got a point there, glad he covered that onefor all the felons out there. Feel much better now.

    There are also places, such as school carnage campuses, that are subject to additional restrictions. Yeah, that one needed justa little edit.

    My comments above in blue.



    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    The North County Times is partnered with 10News, wonder if they have or will air anything about it. Front page and all...

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    :celebrate


    It's great to see that some media sources are starting to pay attention to this growing movement. It's also heartening to see LE agencies going on the record saying they're training their officers on the issue.

    PROGRESS!

    We have a long way to go, but we're making it happen. I can't tell you how proud I am of everyone that has contributed to this movement.

    Carry on.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
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    Supporter of the Madison Society - www.madison-society.org


    Don't Tread On Me.

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    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    Mike wrote:



    What people need to listen to, Kendall said, is the argument that some firearms legislation infringes too much on Second Amendment rights of citizens and puts other rights at risk.

    "I'm sure somewhere there's a middle ground," Kendall said.
    Of course I agree with Kendall's statement about "too much (legislative)infringement", but I take issue with his comment about "some middle ground". The antis have for years demanded the stars then settled for the moon, knowing that people always yearn for the so-called middle ground as though that's the civilized way. BS! How much "middle ground" does anyone talk of regarding freedom of speech or religion??? Hardly any, and that's because once you start to allow rights to be tampered with by legislators, they quickly become privileges, not rights!
    When we keep standing our ground, and the antis keep pushing toward a set goal, everytime we reach a "middle ground" compromise, it means that the antis have advanced halfway to their objective.

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    Decoligny wrote:
    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    Mike wrote:



    What people need to listen to, Kendall said, is the argument that some firearms legislation infringes too much on Second Amendment rights of citizens and puts other rights at risk.

    "I'm sure somewhere there's a middle ground," Kendall said.
    Of course I agree with Kendall's statement about "too much (legislative)infringement", but I take issue with his comment about "some middle ground". The antis have for years demanded the stars then settled for the moon, knowing that people always yearn for the so-called middle ground as though that's the civilized way. BS! How much "middle ground" does anyone talk of regarding freedom of speech or religion??? Hardly any, and that's because once you start to allow rights to be tampered with by legislators, they quickly become privileges, not rights!
    When we keep standing our ground, and the antis keep pushing toward a set goal, everytime we reach a "middle ground" compromise, it means that the antis have advanced halfway to their objective.
    Excellent point! +1
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Escondido Fish and Game? Huh? LOL, why bother talking to a SPORTSMEN'S group about 2nd amendment rights? It is THERE you will find tons of those "middle ground" folks, bet they're also NRA (negotiate rights away) members. That's just too funny.
    the night before that article aired NBC San Diego 7/39 did a piece on Open Carry. Nomadds dad caught it called us as he put it they did this piece and were showing pictures of uzis. (I think that is what type they said). Never could find it on line though so no clue just how bad of a hattchet job they did on the piece. What is funny is that is the station I normally watch for the 11pm news.

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    KylaGWolf wrote:
    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Escondido Fish and Game? Huh? LOL, why bother talking to a SPORTSMEN'S group about 2nd amendment rights? It is THERE you will find tons of those "middle ground" folks, bet they're also NRA (negotiate rights away) members. That's just too funny.
    the night before that article aired NBC San Diego 7/39 did a piece on Open Carry. Nomadds dad caught it called us as he put it they did this piece and were showing pictures of uzis. (I think that is what type they said). Never could find it on line though so no clue just how bad of a hattchet job they did on the piece. What is funny is that is the station I normally watch for the 11pm news.
    If they don't put in online, call the station and ask for a copy, either digital or tape.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    A group I formed in Escondido( http://www.escondido-open-carry.org/index.html) is going to Challenge a Point of Law here, Unloaded Open Carry.
    We plan on September 1, 2009, in the afternoon, to have a Unloaded Open Carry Event here in Escondido, CA and some club members have concerns about the Escondido Police reaction to our Challenge.

    There will be 5 or 6 of us, all wearing white T-Shirts that say "www.escondido-open-carry.org", plus 3 people video taping the whole thing and I am going to call the EPD about 5 minutes prior to the event and inform them when and where it will occur and notify the Escondido Police "Watch Captain" that we all will be complying with the
    Law and that we expect to "have them check our Guns" but anything further will result in Legal action.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A lawsuit against the City of Escondido for Illegal Arrest, physical damages, abuse of "authority" and not allowing us our Rights under CA and U.S. Law will further result in personal lawsuits against ALL officers involved, including the Chief, Watch Captain, the Mayor and ALL the City Council Members because they have been notified by Registered Mail of my Intention.

    One of the members said "I had a face to face contact with Jim Maher, Chief of Escondido Police.
    He referred me to his Lieutenant Lorie.
    The following day I called Lt. Lorie but was told he was on vacation. I was transferred to Sgt. Murphy who
    told me Chief Maher doesn't know anything about these things but that he does with his three (3) years experience! "
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    That is why I sent the Chief of Police a "Registered Letter of Intent" informing him of my intention to UOC with a list of Ca Penal Codes which allow UOC.
    This hopefully will keep me from being shot or thrown to the ground and handcuffed, meanwhile 3 people will be taping this first contact just in case we have to sue them for unlawful arrest.

    20 years in the U.S.Navy has taught me to CYA (Cover Your Ass) and I think I have done everything possible to ensure a smooth UOC event for us and the Escondido, CA, Police .


    Gerald T. Reaster
    Visit my web site at:
    http://www.escondido-open-carry.org/index.html
    1-858-206-4097

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Gerald Reaster wrote:
    A group I formed in Escondido( http://www.escondido-open-carry.org/index.html) is going to Challenge a Point of Law here, Unloaded Open Carry.
    We plan on September 1, 2009, in the afternoon, to have a Unloaded Open Carry Event here in Escondido, CA and some club members have concerns about the Escondido Police reaction to our Challenge.

    There will be 5 or 6 of us, all wearing white T-Shirts that say "http://www.escondido-open-carry.org", plus 3 people video taping the whole thing and I am going to call the EPD about 5 minutes prior to the event and inform them when and where it will occur and notify the Escondido Police "Watch Captain" that we all will be complying with the
    Law and that we expect to "have them check our Guns" but anything further will result in Legal action.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A lawsuit against the City of Escondido for Illegal Arrest, physical damages, abuse of "authority" and not allowing us our Rights under CA and U.S. Law will further result in personal lawsuits against ALL officers involved, including the Chief, Watch Captain, the Mayor and ALL the City Council Members because they have been notified by Registered Mail of my Intention.

    One of the members said "I had a face to face contact with Jim Maher, Chief of Escondido Police.
    He referred me to his Lieutenant Lorie.
    The following day I called Lt. Lorie but was told he was on vacation. I was transferred to Sgt. Murphy who
    told me Chief Maher doesn't know anything about these things but that he does with his three (3) years experience! "
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    That is why I sent the Chief of Police a "Registered Letter of Intent" informing him of my intention to UOC with a list of Ca Penal Codes which allow UOC.
    This hopefully will keep me from being shot or thrown to the ground and handcuffed, meanwhile 3 people will be taping this first contact just in case we have to sue them for unlawful arrest.

    20 years in the U.S.Navy has taught me to CYA (Cover Your Ass) and I think I have done everything possible to ensure a smooth UOC event for us and the Escondido, CA, Police .


    Gerald T. Reaster
    Visit my web site at:
    http://www.escondido-open-carry.org/index.html
    1-858-206-4097
    Interesting. You may want to repost this message as a new topic. A couple of thoughts. 1. you certainly CYA'ed, but 2. at what expense? You may have taken the first step in "forcing" the city council to create an unconstitutional city ordinance. Personally, I contacted my local LEA with an inquiry regarding their training on the issue, but did not contact the city politicians, whom I trust least.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

  21. #21
    Regular Member
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    Post imported post

    I don't feel the "City Fathers" can or will pass something that will be illegal, they don't have enough time and I contacted the Escondido Police and asked about their policy on UOC and was told they follow State law.

    I don't trust politicians either, but using publicity to educate them will work.

    We are having an initial meeting on august 26, at 7PM (here is a link to the page with the meeting info on it.http://www.escondido-open-carry.org/join.html0 )

    I hope you can attend and if you need directions just give me a call: 1-760-743-4756 or1-858-206-4097.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I will re-post my letter as a new Topic as you suggested.

    Thanks.
    Visit my web site at:
    http://www.escondido-open-carry.org/index.html
    1-858-206-4097[/code]


  22. #22
    State Researcher
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    Stanislaus County, California, USA
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    Post imported post

    EDIT: Making a new thread to discuss what I had posted here... sorry for the necro-bump.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
    Supporter of the CalGuns Foundation - http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/
    Supporter of the Madison Society - www.madison-society.org


    Don't Tread On Me.

  23. #23
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    Post imported post

    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    EDIT: Making a new thread to discuss what I had posted here... sorry for the necro-bump.
    Where is the link, pray tell?

  24. #24
    State Researcher
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    N6ATF wrote:
    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    EDIT: Making a new thread to discuss what I had posted here... sorry for the necro-bump.
    Where is the link, pray tell?
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/31076.html
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
    Supporter of the CalGuns Foundation - http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/
    Supporter of the Madison Society - www.madison-society.org


    Don't Tread On Me.

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