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Thread: Priority one for all Michigan gun support groups

  1. #1
    Regular Member LaVere's Avatar
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    This should be
    1. Our CPL should be changed to CCW.
    2. The CPL/CCW should allow us to carry anyplace and anytime. No exceptions.

    3. No fees

    Why should someone be denied the right to gun ownership and carry that is guaranteed in the US constitution and the Michigan constitution, because lack of money to get a permit.

    I've been photographed three times, I've been fingered printed three times, and I been run through the FBI files three times. I stood in front of a review board one time. What else do they need to know about me.
    The use of force is a last resort. One aspect of violence is that it is unpredictable. Although your initial intention may be to use limited force, once you have engaged in violence the consequences are unpredictable. Violence always brings about unexpected results and almost always provokes retaliation.

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  2. #2
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    LaVere wrote:
    This should be
    1. Our CPL should be changed to CCW.
    2. The CPL/CCW should allow us to carry anyplace and anytime. No exceptions.

    3. No fees

    Why should someone be denied the right to gun ownership and carry that is guaranteed in the US constitution and the Michigan constitution, because lack of money to get a permit.

    I've been photographed three times, I've been fingered printed three times, and I been run through the FBI files three times. I stood in front of a review board one time. What else do they need to know about me.
    I agree, but the "Bleeding Hearts" will have no part of this. Especially, when a CCW may allow us to conceal--now prohibited--weapons other than a pistol. For example, loaded rifles, shotguns, etc, in the passenger compartment of a vehicle. And, unfortunately, this is the reason we now have a CPL.

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    What/how many times you have a bowel movement everyday. :shock:

  4. #4
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    1. I'm not quite sure how I feel about this. I'm all for carrying handguns openly, concealed, or anyway you want it.. but I think carrying an AK-47 through Walmart kinda crosses the "ridiculous" line. I guess I'd still support the right to do so...

    2. I agree.

    3. This will never happen. Our CPL's are huge cash-cows for the state, and we could definitely use this as a reason in justifying more open firearms laws when it becomes time to argue our reasons. Its possible that the state making so much money off firearms owners is one of the reasons we have as many freedoms as we do....

  5. #5
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I wouldn't suggest being so confident about free or non existent CPL's being impossible. Alaska and Vermont have done away with licensing, and numerous other states have toyed with the idea. If we grow large enough, and lobby hard enough, we CAN rid this state of the tyrannical curse of CPL's.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    I just don't see the state ever saying "Sure, we'll give up on $21,000,000+ every 5 years...". Especially when the states already pretty much going bankrupt.

    It seems like everything in this country is run off of money. Presidents get elected based on who receives the most money in donations and offers the right tax breaks to the right people. It also seems like laws only ever get changed when theres money to be made.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Remember what Brian was saying at the picnic today. Our rights get chipped away at, over and over and over. As much as possible, you want to try to get them back. Despite any odds, the only good choice is to try to gain ground. Acknowledging defeat just doesn't cut it for me.

    About money, look at it this way. If you get the people pissed off enough, there are elected positions to be lost, and money to be lost with them. If we continue aggressively, there is truly nothing to stop MOC from becoming the biggest gun rights organization in Michigan, nor is there anything to stop us from being able to successfully lobby politicians if we gain more numbers and put our minds to it. That sounds far fetched, but it also sounded far fetched when Brian predicted we'd be where we are now when we first met in Brighton late in 07. The main point I'm getting at is DON'T underestimate what you can do. If you tell yourself you can't do something, you definitely won't.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Right, I'm not saying we can't do it, I just don't think trying to get rid of money first (like the OP is suggesting) is the best approach. I would make that our final goal.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    What I would like to see changed is:

    1. Get rid of purchase permits for EVERYBODY. Treat a handgun like a rifle/shotgun for purchase and ownership purposes. (would also allow residents of states like WI/IL/VT that don't issue carry permits to at least open carry in MI)

    2. Get rid of the ban on carrying a loaded handgun in a car without a CPL.

    Prior to having my CPL it was a real pain when picking berries with the kids to unload, put in a case, drive a few hundred feet, get out, uncase, load, and reholster. Granted, I probably could have gotten away with keeping it loaded on my person because I haven't seen a DNR officer where I pick berries in years. But, I also figured the 1 time I did that, would probably be the time a DNR truck would come around the corner....It wasn't worth risking a felony conviction.


    I agree that I'd like to see the GFZ's dissapear, and allow CC without a permit, but my train of thought is that we can get around GFZ's by open carrying (w/CC permit), but we should be able to transport a handgun for self defense in a vehicle without being required to pay the state, and I have friends from WI that can not bring their handguns with them for any reason when they come up because WI doesn't issue a CC permit.

    Personally, I'd like to see the law say something like: Any person not prohibited by law from possessing a firearm may purchase, possess, carry, and transport such firearm in any such manner, provided there is no intention to use such firearm in a manner that would injur fellow man or deface any property other than that owned by the possesor or other property with the consent of the owner of such property.
    Rand Paul 2016

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    Yeah I wouldn't be a fan of seeing someone with a AK47 waling around walmart, but he wants to go on a killing spree, i guess the law doesn't really matter! Would'nt hurt to have a good guy with a AK in the same room.
    Freedom isn't free, but this is America! We will find a way to outsource it and save some money - Jeremy

  11. #11
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    jeremy05 wrote:
    Yeah I wouldn't be a fan of seeing someone with a AK47 waling around walmart, but he wants to go on a killing spree, i guess the law doesn't really matter! Would'nt hurt to have a good guy with a AK in the same room.
    A friend of mine and myself were sitting on my deck about 10yrs ago drinking some of St. Louis's finest () and saw a guy walking down the street with an AR type rifle on one shoulder, and some other type of rifle over the other.

    We both kind of looked at each other and said "well, you sure don't see that everyday", and continued about our business.
    Rand Paul 2016

  12. #12
    Regular Member Generaldet's Avatar
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    Michigander wrote:

    If we continue aggressively, there is truly nothing to stop MOC from becoming the biggest gun rights organization in Michigan, nor is there anything to stop us from being able to successfully lobby politicians if we gain more numbers and put our minds to it. That sounds far fetched, but it also sounded far fetched when Brian predicted we'd be where we are now when we first met in Brighton late in 07. The main point I'm getting at is DON'T underestimate what you can do. If you tell yourself you can't do something, you definitely won't.
    I don't think that is far fetched at all. In fact, I know the day will come. There are a lot of amazing people here and very determined people. It will happen. Your right Michigander look how far we have come in such a short time. We have made huge strides and I look forward to the day when we will be a major player in the game.

  13. #13
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    Yooper wrote:
    What I would like to see changed is:

    2. Get rid of the ban on carrying a loaded handgun in a car without a CPL.
    i would have to agree with this one. because after thinking about it, having to get a cpl/ccw infringes on out right to carry a handgun anyway, anyhow we want to.

  14. #14
    Regular Member LaVere's Avatar
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    Yooper wrote:
    What I would like to see changed is:

    1. Get rid of purchase permits for EVERYBODY. Treat a handgun like a rifle/shotgun for purchase and ownership purposes. (would also allow residents of states like WI/IL/VT that don't issue carry permits to at least open carry in MI)

    2. Get rid of the ban on carrying a loaded handgun in a car without a CPL.

    Prior to having my CPL it was a real pain when picking berries with the kids to unload, put in a case, drive a few hundred feet, get out, uncase, load, and reholster. Granted, I probably could have gotten away with keeping it loaded on my person because I haven't seen a DNR officer where I pick berries in years. But, I also figured the 1 time I did that, would probably be the time a DNR truck would come around the corner....It wasn't worth risking a felony conviction.


    I agree that I'd like to see the GFZ's dissapear, and allow CC without a permit, but my train of thought is that we can get around GFZ's by open carrying (w/CC permit), but we should be able to transport a handgun for self defense in a vehicle without being required to pay the state, and I have friends from WI that can not bring their handguns with them for any reason when they come up because WI doesn't issue a CC permit.

    Personally, I'd like to see the law say something like: Any person not prohibited by law from possessing a firearm may purchase, possess, carry, and transport such firearm in any such manner, provided there is no intention to use such firearm in a manner that would injur fellow man or deface any property other than that owned by the possesor or other property with the consent of the owner of such property.
    This is good. Thanks for you input and everyone elses.



    Just another thought. If we were to take the money from one box of ammo for each CPL holder ( Add hunters in if you care ) let see thats 200000 cpl X $20.00 avg = $4,000,000 What kind of attention could we get with that money.

    Or $1,000,000 for four really pro gun representative.



    The math may not be perfect but it is the concept that is important.
    The use of force is a last resort. One aspect of violence is that it is unpredictable. Although your initial intention may be to use limited force, once you have engaged in violence the consequences are unpredictable. Violence always brings about unexpected results and almost always provokes retaliation.

    Dalai Lama

    ************************************************** ********************

    http://www.generalnewsgroup.com/

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