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Thread: What should you do if a police officer comes up to you?

  1. #1
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    :celebrateI haven't been bothered yet,but I've heard of people beingtreated like criminals. What should you do or say ifa police officeris unlawfully detaining you.

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    I'm I being detained?
    I'm I free to go?
    I do not consent to any searches.
    I don't wish to answer any questions until I've consulted with
    my attorney.

    These are the only things the Police hear from my mouth when I'm
    being stopped for doing something completely legal.




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    First thing you might do is not yell and scream nor use colorful language.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    A few things to add:

    Keep your hand away from the gun.
    If you have a recorder, let it run.
    Try and remember names or badge numbers.
    Ask politely for business cards if possible.
    Don't fight or resist.
    Never raise your voice.
    Know your local laws so you can quote them to police or magistrate.


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    If they ask for ID, retort with, "In order for you to ask for my ID, you have to have reasonable suspicion that I am about to commit a crime, in the midst of committing a crime, or have committed a crime." If the officer insists, then say, "Only under threat of deadly force, I will comply," and had the officer your ID.

    I'm pretty sure that what bnhcomputing said word for word yesterday at the Green Bay picnic on what he did when he was approached one time at a McDonald's by 3 officers.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    that could be interesting to say

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    Sometimes cops might just want to say hello, and express gratitude towards what you're doing. This can be unexpected in some regions, but it definitely happens.

    I'd say always be ready for police harassment, and always expect it if you're in a non gold star state. But don't assume every cop will mess with you. As more and more police get educated, more and more police start to see that we're on the same side, and almost to be thought of as friends. It would be hugely awkward if some cop wanted to say hello and ask how you liked your G23 and level 3 Serpa, and you said "I DON'T CONSENT TO ANY SEARCHES!!!" Even if your region tends towards police problems, I think it's generally best to give police the benefit of the doubt until they give you a reason not to trust them.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Michigander wrote:
    Sometimes cops might just want to say hello, and express gratitude towards what you're doing. This can be unexpected in some regions, but it definitely happens.

    I'd say always be ready for police harassment, and always expect it if you're in a non gold star state. But don't assume every cop will mess with you. As more and more police get educated, more and more police start to see that we're on the same side, and almost to be thought of as friends. It would be hugely awkward if some cop wanted to say hello and ask how you liked your G23 and level 3 Serpa, and you said "I DON'T CONSENT TO ANY SEARCHES!!!" Even if your region tends towards police problems, I think it's generally best to give police the benefit of the doubt until they give you a reason not to trust them.
    X2, however, whether they are going to harass you or simply have a friendly conversation with you is easy to determine EARLY on. Once you have figured that out, proceed with the appropriate conversation. But I would still stay alert because they might try to start the conversation off friendly and then harass you (to warm you up I guess).

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    Walked into the pawn/gun shop the other day to buy ammo. There was an officer in there. Checked out the ammo. Another officer arrived shortly after. Talked to the first officer about ammo. Debated JHP v FMJ. At the price I had to pay for the JHP, the officer told me if I ever used it to send the BG a bill!

    Got into an accident a week or so ago. I did have to disarm during the investigation. Sat in the officer's car for 10 min or so talking guns after the report was done.

    It's not all bad when dealing with LEO's. I also am aware some of them are jerks. I try to assess that early on as well and play it by ear.

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    I have to agree with many of the above. If you are approached by an officer out of the blue; one of the two of you will set the tone of how the rest of the conversation will go.

    Let him (or her) talk first. They may indeed only want to ask you what your experience has been with that Serpa holster they see on you; or if you prefer Glock over Sig. They may be asking you simply for an opinion or recommendation. If you set the tone by blurting out “I DON’T CONSENT TO TALK TO YOU” before they’ve said anything; you come off looking like a paranoid tool.

    We demand respect from the civil servants but it’s a two-way street. It may simply be Midwest manners at play here; but I was always taught to be respectful unless being disrespected. Be guarded on how the conversation is going and towards the issues they bring up to see if it’s a fishing expedition, but in the event its just chit-chat or “talking shop” have fun. You never know if that same cop a few months later will be pulling you over for that stop sign you didn’t see. Not saying that friendly chit-chat will equate for you only receiving a warning later. . .but stranger things have happened!


    Now on the other hand. . .if the first thing you get from the officer is “insta-tude” and barking of orders to come to them and answer some questions; then granted you have every right to clam up.

    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when you’re serious and when you’re being sarcastic. –Abraham Lincoln

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    Caltorrez wrote:
    SNIP ...What should you do or say ifa police officeris unlawfully detaining you...
    This isa good question.

    It is very likely you will have no wayto judge safelywhether you are being illegally detained. There are a number of factors that come into play. In order to judge whether you are being illegally detained, you would have to know all of the factors, and judge correctly. Its much safer to operate as though it was a legal detention until you find out for sure later.

    The main rights that come into play are your 4th Amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure, and your 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination. You can learn more about exercising these rights from the videos linked below.

    After lots of reading and considering, my suggestion is to comply while politely, verballyrefusing consent. You can learn more about refusing consent in the first video.

    Busted: A Citizens Guide to Surviving Police Encounters by FlexYourRights

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA



    Talking to Police by law professor James Duane of Regent University.

    http://www.regent.edu/admin/media/schlaw/LawPreview/


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Caltorrez wrote:
    SNIP ...What should you do or say ifa police officeris unlawfully detaining you...
    This isa good question.

    It is very likely you will have no wayto judge safelywhether you are being illegally detained. There are a number of factors that come into play. In order to judge whether you are being illegally detained, you would have to know all of the factors, and judge correctly. Its much safer to operate as though it was a legal detention until you find out for sure later.

    The main rights that come into play are your 4th Amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure, and your 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination. You can learn more about exercising these rights from the videos linked below.

    After lots of reading and considering, my suggestion is to comply while politely, verballyrefusing consent. You can learn more about refusing consent in the first video.

    Busted: A Citizens Guide to Surviving Police Encounters by FlexYourRights

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA



    Talking to Police by law professor James Duane of Regent University.

    http://www.regent.edu/admin/media/schlaw/LawPreview/

    On topic - I watched that video
    Busted: A Citizens Guide to Surviving Police Encounters by FlexYourRights

    -
    Well I thought I had it all planned out in my head. I thought I knew what I would say, to the T. The next day after watching that video, I was pulled over in Sterling Heights, Michigan for what the officer described as an extremely loud stereo. I was visiting from Colorado- and that plays a factor because in Colorado the window tinting laws are different than in that area of Michigan- well my windows were dark and my back window was almost blacked out, in accordance with Colorado law thought-

    This didn't help things one bit- keep it ALL in mind. The officer ended up asking me to step outside of the vehicle (I didn't know this but I owed some money to the Michigan Secretary of State of points violations on my DL)... This is where it all went way wrong-
    Instantly I was reminded of the video I had watched the day before- so I rolled up my windows completely and locked the door behind me- which also locked my buddy in the car where the officer could not see him.. I remained calm as the officer literally tried ripping me apart- piece by piece- to determine why I had rolled up my windows. I said I do not consent to search (not knowing the officer legally searched the car because I was being ticketed for the DL situation and my car was being towed and impounded). The officer reached into my pants and took out my car keys and proceeded to have his way with me, my car, and my buddy. It was a terrible situation that led me to try and "raise hell" at the Police Department with his supervisor- I ended up walking away, with no dignity, and still without my car.

    I thought I was doing the right thing, but like the other poster said, you never really can tell if you are being treated legally or illegally- civilians simply just won't know exactly everything that's going on with the situation.

    In the future, and I'm starting to OC today, I will Not be so adventurous with my mouth in the situation.

    On another note- this is strictly personal and each decision is owned by the man/woman making it- I would never refuse my ID to an officer if that was the first thing he asked for. I have nothing to hide, no wants or warrants, so I'll just let him do his thing and I'll do my thing. Like I said, very personal, and I own that decision- it's nobody else's to call into question. I'm free and I'll freely show my ID.

    Hope this helps anyone out there- specially after watching that video posted above, haha.

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    Caltorrez wrote:
    ...I've heard of people beingtreated like criminals. What should you do or say ifa police officeris unlawfully detaining you.

    do not say:

    "Good, more money for me!"




    :P

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    cscitney87 wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Caltorrez wrote:
    SNIP ...What should you do or say ifa police officeris unlawfully detaining you...
    This isa good question.

    It is very likely you will have no wayto judge safelywhether you are being illegally detained. There are a number of factors that come into play. In order to judge whether you are being illegally detained, you would have to know all of the factors, and judge correctly. Its much safer to operate as though it was a legal detention until you find out for sure later.

    The main rights that come into play are your 4th Amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure, and your 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination. You can learn more about exercising these rights from the videos linked below.

    After lots of reading and considering, my suggestion is to comply while politely, verballyrefusing consent. You can learn more about refusing consent in the first video.

    Busted: A Citizens Guide to Surviving Police Encounters by FlexYourRights

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA



    Talking to Police by law professor James Duane of Regent University.

    http://www.regent.edu/admin/media/schlaw/LawPreview/

    On topic - I watched that video
    Busted: A Citizens Guide to Surviving Police Encounters by FlexYourRights

    -
    Well I thought I had it all planned out in my head. I thought I knew what I would say, to the T. The next day after watching that video, I was pulled over in Sterling Heights, Michigan for what the officer described as an extremely loud stereo. I was visiting from Colorado- and that plays a factor because in Colorado the window tinting laws are different than in that area of Michigan- well my windows were dark and my back window was almost blacked out, in accordance with Colorado law thought-

    This didn't help things one bit- keep it ALL in mind. The officer ended up asking me to step outside of the vehicle (I didn't know this but I owed some money to the Michigan Secretary of State of points violations on my DL)... This is where it all went way wrong-
    Instantly I was reminded of the video I had watched the day before- so I rolled up my windows completely and locked the door behind me- which also locked my buddy in the car where the officer could not see him.. I remained calm as the officer literally tried ripping me apart- piece by piece- to determine why I had rolled up my windows. I said I do not consent to search (not knowing the officer legally searched the car because I was being ticketed for the DL situation and my car was being towed and impounded). The officer reached into my pants and took out my car keys and proceeded to have his way with me, my car, and my buddy. It was a terrible situation that led me to try and "raise hell" at the Police Department with his supervisor- I ended up walking away, with no dignity, and still without my car.

    I thought I was doing the right thing, but like the other poster said, you never really can tell if you are being treated legally or illegally- civilians simply just won't know exactly everything that's going on with the situation.

    In the future, and I'm starting to OC today, I will Not be so adventurous with my mouth in the situation.

    On another note- this is strictly personal and each decision is owned by the man/woman making it- I would never refuse my ID to an officer if that was the first thing he asked for. I have nothing to hide, no wants or warrants, so I'll just let him do his thing and I'll do my thing. Like I said, very personal, and I own that decision- it's nobody else's to call into question. I'm free and I'll freely show my ID.

    Hope this helps anyone out there- specially after watching that video posted above, haha.
    I suspect this as BS.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    I suspect this as BS.
    :shock: Really? Are you perhaps reading into the serious tone of previous posts and forming a hasty conclusion?

    Snif, snif ............hmmm.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    cscitney87 wrote:
    SNIP...but like the other poster said, you never really can tell if you are being treated legally or illegally- civilians simply just won't know exactly everything that's going on with the situation.
    The Busted video explains why to refuse consent. Basically, giving consent turns what would otherwise be an illegal search or seizure into a legal search or seizure.

    It sounds like yours was maybe a legal seizure anyway, so refusing consent would not have mattered, but you did not know that at the time. This does not somehow make you wrong. Andit certainly does not make the video wrong.

    That youraised a fuss at the police afterward speaks well. So, you didn't know all the legal angles and lost the argument. So, what?There is no shame in losing against an opponentwhenyou are not nearly as well versed in the subject as he is.

    The only thing I might suggest doing differently next time is a little research after the incident to find out what the cop might have done illegally and/or improperly. Then filing a formal complaint focusing mainly on those points. Charging in and complaining without having your ducks in a row is what caused the loss. So, next time, have your ducks in a row.

    Don't give up or give in just because you were made to swallow your outrage. Learn from the incident.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    cscitney87 wrote:
    SNIP On another note- this is strictly personal and each decision is owned by the man/woman making it- I would never refuse my ID to an officer if that was the first thing he asked for. I have nothing to hide, no wants or warrants, so I'll just let him do his thing and I'll do my thing. Like I said, very personal, and I own that decision- it's nobody else's to call into question. I'm free and I'll freely show my ID.
    In truth, you don't have to refuse an ID demand. You can go along with it. In fact, I would recommend going along with itto the extent of giving your name verbally if demandedin an encounter. Why? BecauseColorado has a stop-and-identify statute (according to Wiki).1

    So,how can you assert your rightsin regard to an ID demand?

    Tell you what I would do. I would comply while politely refusing consent. You see, there is no law requiring you to show ID to an LEO during a TerryStop. So, he can't possibly have authority to demand it.When you handover your ID, you can't be charged for failing to comply withthe Stop-and-Identify statute, and you are cooperating with a police officer--nobody, not even the wussy-ist nanny-state supportercan argue you were out of line.

    BUT! The police officer is out of line for making a demand he has no authority to make. And if you politely refuse consent while complying, it strengthens your position by making it harder forhim to later claim your compliance was consensual. Now you've got him. Hammer hard on theextra-legal ID demand in a formal complaint.

    So, its a win-win situation (mostly). You comply with the stop-and-identify statute at a point where you can't safely judge whether it is a legal detention. And the cop loses for making an ID demand for which he had no authority.

    You can do the same with verbally identifying yourself. Politely. "Officer, no offense. I know you are probably just doing your job. I am giving you my name non-consensuallybecause you have demanded it. I will comply. I do not consent. My name is..."

    Then you're covered. In case it turns out he actually did have legal grounds for a Terry Stop, you complied with the Stop-and-Identify statute. And,if turns out he didn't, you've got grounds to raise a ruckus over the extra-lawful demand later in a formal complaint.

    Theremight be anumber of ways you can tweak this according to the circumstances. For example, you couldfirst ask, "Officer, I will be happy to verbally identify myself if I am being detained. Am I being detained?" (This is a trick question to the LEO. Since he only has authority to demand you identify yourself during a valid Terry Stop2 aka detention, that he makes the demand can, from the reverse angle,automatically be construed to mean you are being detained. But, since he won't know you know that, he'll think you know a bit about the law, and now has to consider whether he really does have grounds for a Terry Stop. If he really doesn't, he might just back off, or shift gears to try to get you to give it to him consensually.)

    There may be other ways you can play this, too.

    1. Wiki article on Stop-and-Identify statutes.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_Identify_statutes

    2. Hiibel vs 6th Judicial District Court: http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-5554.ZO.html
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  18. #18
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    Something I've come up with by way of handling "fishing trip" traffic stops: If/when a cop starts asking for justifications - why are you here? where are you going? kind of stuff - I just say that I would prefer not to answer any questions that don't pertain to the purpose of the stop. That way they have to stay "on point" with whatever their pretext was for stopping you in the first place. That or meet with frustrating silence.

    Ohio has a duty to inform provision for carry licenses (you also need to have and provide a secondary ID when carrying, in addition to the carry license itself), and you have to carry and provide your drivers license when stopped while driving as well.

    So, unless I'm accosted on foot, I don't have any discretion about identifying myself. I don't mind - my name by itself, absent date of birth, etc, generates a lot of hits on NCIC and other databases, so I'm glad to help disambiguate rather then get run in to establish my identity to their satisfaction. That said, I certainly don't feel any obligation to provide any other information beyond that. I don't like justifying myself to anyone, particularly in connection with an arbitrary detention.

    -ljp

    p.s. On a related note (like a complete unknown indeed): http://wonderwall.msn.com/music/you-...#m=OnFCYNbL04W



  19. #19
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    "What should you do if a police officer comes up to you?"

    Turn on your voice recorder!
    Perhaps if you would use a real computer you wouldn't have to apologize for not being able to do so many things on the internet!

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    jeeper1 wrote:
    "What should you do if a police officer comes up to you?"

    Turn on your voice recorder!
    Wrong, voice recorder should already be on!

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    Double A batteries are expensive for some one on a very limited income and they go dead fast. Also it is illegal to record some one here in WA. without their permission except for the police.
    Perhaps if you would use a real computer you wouldn't have to apologize for not being able to do so many things on the internet!

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    Rechargeable batteries FTW! Ok they have their downside but they are more cost effective. Most of the new cell phones and mp3 players can record audio and their batteries last for days on a charge. If you carrying it anyways why not learn how to use it to record audio?

  23. #23
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    Correction my voice recorder uses AAA batteries.
    I used to use rechargeable batteries in my digital camera and they were a PITA. I was lucky to get 3 days out of a charge. I have since switched to lithium-ion batteries and get 10X the picture count.
    Perhaps if you would use a real computer you wouldn't have to apologize for not being able to do so many things on the internet!

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