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Thread: Examiner.com: Gun rights are for immigrants too

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    http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gu...immigrants-too

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    SNIP

    Some gun rights advocates worry that immigrants from other cultures will dilute support for gun rights in America. But I'm not so sure that's true, especially since immigrants come to America for freedom and opportunity not found in their home country. And the fact that two out of two random CHP applicants in Virginia are immigrants just goes to show you that it appears that gun rights are for immigrants too.

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    Self defense is a human right .

    Immigrants have a right to be armed everywhere in this world .

    Give health benifits to the elderly also .

    Stand up for our human rights . . . all of them .



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    R a Z o R wrote:

    Self defense is a human right .

    Immigrants have a right to be armed everywhere in this world .

    Give health benifits to the elderly also .

    Stand up for our human rights . . . all of them .

    Sure looks to me that the old woman is about to exercise her right of SELF DEFENSE!!!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Mike wrote:
    http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m8d9-Gun-rights-are-for-immigrants-too

    PLEASE DIGG & REDDIT!

    SNIP

    Some gun rights advocates worry that immigrants from other cultures will dilute support for gun rights in America. But I'm not so sure that's true, especially since immigrants come to America for freedom and opportunity not found in their home country. And the fact that two out of two random CHP applicants in Virginia are immigrants just goes to show you that it appears that gun rights are for immigrants too.
    Well of course, that can't be true. My lineage goes back quite a ways so that kills their report.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m8d9-Gun-rights-are-for-immigrants-too

    PLEASE DIGG & REDDIT!

    SNIP

    Some gun rights advocates worry that immigrants from other cultures will dilute support for gun rights in America. But I'm not so sure that's true, especially since immigrants come to America for freedom and opportunity not found in their home country. And the fact that two out of two random CHP applicants in Virginia are immigrants just goes to show you that it appears that gun rights are for immigrants too.
    Well of course, that can't be true. My lineage goes back quite a ways so that kills their report.
    And we have ANOTHER example of facts getting in the way of Statitics.... LOL
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    JoeSparky wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m8d9-Gun-rights-are-for-immigrants-too

    PLEASE DIGG & REDDIT!

    SNIP

    Some gun rights advocates worry that immigrants from other cultures will dilute support for gun rights in America. But I'm not so sure that's true, especially since immigrants come to America for freedom and opportunity not found in their home country. And the fact that two out of two random CHP applicants in Virginia are immigrants just goes to show you that it appears that gun rights are for immigrants too.
    Well of course, that can't be true. My lineage goes back quite a ways so that kills their report.
    And we have ANOTHER example of facts getting in the way of Statitics.... LOL
    'Go back' far enough, and we're all immigrants...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    As long as those immigrants are not invaders of enemy countries we haven't repelled or gotten around to deporting yet.

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    Mike, while we may have strong differences, I usually find your articles enlightening and well-thought. But this one seems a bit rushed and self-insisting...

    So, of 2 (not exactly a wide demographic cross-section) random pulls, 2 were immigrants.

    Even to cite a qualifier, such a narrow (TWO!!!) sampling is something that should not even be published. It is a curious discovery, I'll give you that. But to use it as the basis for an entire article, that just isn't quantifiable.

    I realize you have many balls in the air, but the only way this could serve the headline, is if you were to sample, say, 10,000 or more.

    The right to be armed, to be a tool using human, is a right all people have. Period. But these 2 whole applications, as a point to support the position.... That just puts egg on all of our faces.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Not bad enough for you, huh? Now you want the Latino drug gangs legally armed?

    Get real. We are fighting for our lives and it's no time for abstract philosophizing.

    If these immigrants are so wonderful and deserving let them stay home and clean up their own countries.

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    old dog wrote:
    Not bad enough for you, huh? Now you want the Latino drug gangs legally armed?

    Get real. We are fighting for our lives and it's no time for abstract philosophizing.

    If these immigrants are so wonderful and deserving let the stay home and clean up their own countries.
    He isn't talking about Illegal Immigrants, Gangs, Dealers, etc. A Criminal is a Criminal.

    Don't drink the Kool Aid.... The only non-immigrants on this continent are living on reservations........... They failed to control their own illegal immigrant problem.

    I see no reason why any legitimate American Citizen, or even people just visiting, should be deprived the Basic Human Right to be a tool using human.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    I feel humbled in the midst of such moral purity, but perhaps you haven't noticed that our beloved leaders are pushing hard every day to extend rights and courtesies to illegals. Do you really suppose politicians would be allowed to curb rights even if they wanted to? I repeat -- GET REAL!!!!

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    old dog wrote:
    I feel humbled in the midst of such moral purity, but perhaps you haven't noticed that our beloved leaders are pushing hard every day to extend rights and courtesies to illegals. Do you really suppose politicians would be allowed to curb rights even if they wanted to? I repeat -- GET REAL!!!!
    Yes, agreed.

    But that hasn't got anything to do with what the article was about, or any reason to not like the article.

    It has nothing to do with illegal immigrants.



    Or do you prefer this one:



    Or this one:


    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Strawman indeed! Is it your position then that legal immigrants are always saints and scholars who would never abuse our hospitality?

    I believe wholeheartedly in firearms rights -- FOR AMERICANS WHO HAVE SHOWN THEMSELVES WORTHY. Our gun rights are a precious blessing and must not be threatened and diluted by starry-eyed people still mired in infantile Sunday school pieties.

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    old dog wrote:
    Strawman indeed! Is it your position then that legal immigrants are always saints and scholars who would never abuse our hospitality?
    No, that is not my position, or anyone else's here that I have seen thus far.

    1) my position has absolutely nothing to do with illegal aliens, or criminals
    2) neither does the article
    3) neither addresses illegal aliens or criminals at all, much less their demeanor as a stereotype

    Confirmed; Straw Man.

    This article and discussion are related to 2 legitimate immigrants who, as a slim and useless cross-section, were both CCW permit holders. And holding the CCW also negates any possibility of discussion on illegal aliens, as only citizens (to my understanding) can get a CCW in the state in question.

    To argue the unrelated point that you have diverged upon; no. A Naturalized Citizen, or a Native Born Citizen cannot be predicted, by that material alone, to be a good or bad citizen. To debate the matter is futile, as the type of citizen has no bearing on character or civility. Being born in another country does not pre-dispose a person to any behavior that being born here would or would not.

    So, I have confounded both your Straw Man, and your own position.

    Care to address mine yet? Or is ranting pointlessly about something you hate, and putting someone else's name to it, going to suffice for you?

    In case you didn't notice, my position is:

    Citing two random document pulls does not constitute a broad enough sample to draw the headline's suggestion. In fact, it is so narrow, that it could be considered nothing more than a reason to do more research to either confirm or deny the curiosity, and made an unsound basis for an article.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    You seem bent on not following my thought so I'll type slowly.

    I suppose we have no choice but to accept some refugees, but under no circumstances would I give them firearms or voting rights. Such precious gifts should be limited to the native-born.

    Go to any Walmart on Saturday. Would you really have these people legally armed? Of all people, a Floridian should understand.

    Now I hope you got it this time because I'm bored with you and I'm unwatching.

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    old dog wrote:
    I'm unwatching.
    Yay!
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    old dog wrote:
    I suppose we have no choice but to accept some refugees, but under no circumstances would I give them firearms or voting rights. Such precious gifts should be limited to the native-born.

    What part of inalienable do you not understand? EVERYONE has the basic human right toself defense.

    The white "Americans" of European descent living in the dense urban areas have been bankrolling the gangs by purchasing and using the drugs they sell for decades. Gangs are not an immigration problem. Crime is not an immigration problem. Much of our crime problem is the result of poor legislative and governing choices based on racism. You can not legislate away crime.


    old dog wrote:
    Go to any Walmart on Saturday. Would you really have these people legally armed?
    Yes........ I would....




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    old dog wrote:
    I believe wholeheartedly in firearms rights -- FOR AMERICANS WHO HAVE SHOWN THEMSELVES WORTHY. Our gun rights are a precious blessing and must not be threatened and diluted by starry-eyed people still mired in infantile Sunday school pieties.
    Fortunately the equal protection clause guarantees resident aliens the same gun rights as US citizens - there have been recent cases in Washinton and Tennessee affirming this principle discussed on this board over the last couple of years.

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    Pointman wrote:
    What Mike discovered is Virginia is granting permits to foreign citizens. (I don't know if the two people are actually immigrating to the U.S. or if they're here for other reasons.)
    The 2 immigrants may still be citizens of their country of birth, but they claimed to now be US citizens on their applications. Virginia requires that CHP applicants either be US Citizens or permanent resident aliens.

    I probably should do a larger sample, but 2/2 being immigrants really floored me - the Aelxandria one I chose myself, just clicked on the most recently approved application on the computer screen. the Arlington one was handed to me - I think the lady just looked thru the recent approved stack and pulled one where the applicant chose not to disclose their SSN so she would not have to redact it.

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    Make it 3.

    I'm aRussian citizen resident alien (US green card holder), lived in the US only since 2006. I own a number of firearms and hold a VA CHP since 2007.

    I might be new to the US, but franly I speak and write in English better than many Native born Americans and probably know more about US history, political system and laws - pardon my attitude.

    My point is that not all immigrants are leeches - I have a masters degree in engineering and I've held a professional, germaine to my education job since about a month after I came to the US and up until today. I never commited any crimes. I neverapplied fora single benefit from the US or VA or a local government, quite the contrary I've been paying quite a bit in taxes and that not counting all the USCIS fees.

    I'm conservative, pro-gun, pro-freedom, ANTI-illegal immigration, anti-socialism. By the way, I'm pretty sure that nearly everyone who went through the LEGAL immigration processwill strongly oppose illegal immigration. It's normally young lefty hippieish local youth who somehow view supporting illegals as fighting for immigrants rights. I don't want any special treatment. Treat me as equal and I'll live up to it.

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    Immigrants aren't the threat, it is the voting ILLEGAL immigrants that are the
    problem. Since they can't own they want everyone disarmed. I only
    know one legal immigrant and she can't wait to purchase her first gun.
    Moving to a register city soon, but state wide preemption and OC legal.
    Picked up a spare lower for her just in case the feds preempt ownership
    before they allow her to buy them.

    I only hear of gun control from the politicians and crooks who are
    afraid to ply their trade. For that matter I have never heard of even
    one time where a crook is shot dead complaining that the victim was
    exercising their god given right. Did the VA gut shot perp from a couple of
    weeks ago complain the citizen had a gun? If he did the media suppressed
    the story and as anti as they are I don't think they would.
    No, criminals who carry don't have a problem with armed people.
    They don't like it, and prefer the GFZ but they at least they know it is legal,
    unlike out "leader" obama.









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    Mike wrote:
    The 2 immigrants may still be citizens of their country of birth, but they claimed to now be US citizens on their applications.
    Yes, they can be dual citizens (of both the US and their home country) and legally claim to be US citizens. However, if they are onlyresident aliens, claiming to be a US citizen is a serious offense which triggers deportation.

    I doubt that any resident alien would be stupid enough to claim to be a US citizen and put their future in jeopardy, especially toget a benefit they are already eligible for as is.

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    SlackwareRobert wrote:
    Immigrants aren't the threat, it is the voting ILLEGAL immigrants that are the
    problem. Since they can't own they want everyone disarmed. I only
    know one legal immigrant and she can't wait to purchase her first gun.
    Moving to a register city soon, but state wide preemption and OC legal.
    Picked up a spare lower for her just in case the feds preempt ownership
    before they allow her to buy them.

    I only hear of gun control from the politicians and crooks who are
    afraid to ply their trade. For that matter I have never heard of even
    one time where a crook is shot dead complaining that the victim was
    exercising their god given right. Did the VA gut shot perp from a couple of
    weeks ago complain the citizen had a gun? If he did the media suppressed
    the story and as anti as they are I don't think they would.
    No, criminals who carry don't have a problem with armed people.
    They don't like it, and prefer the GFZ but they at least they know it is legal,
    unlike out "leader" obama.








    +100

    FYI, be careful buying a lower (which is considered a firearm for FFL purposes)for someone else, espically someone who is currently inelgible to purchaseone. This can be easliy construed as a straw purchase.


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    Chaingun81 wrote:
    espically someone who is currently inelgible to purchaseone. This can be easliy construed as a straw purchase.
    It IS a straw purchase. It is the very definition of a straw purchase. No construed about it.....

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