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Famous Ex Detroit Cop/ Stopping Power Author Evan Marshall on Open Carry
- Thread starter Toledo Kid
- Start date
sevenplusone
Regular Member
imported post
Toledo Kid wrote:
Typical police officer who wouldn't want the average citizen to have equal rights with the clearly superior police.
Toledo Kid wrote:
Typical police officer who wouldn't want the average citizen to have equal rights with the clearly superior police.
TheRabbitsHole
Regular Member
imported post
I'm about 90% positive this is the same guy that tought my NRA Pistol Self Defense class. :shock:
If having an OC pistol in a holster is not a crime, and not reason for RS, then how can he assult someone?
I'm about 90% positive this is the same guy that tought my NRA Pistol Self Defense class. :shock:
If having an OC pistol in a holster is not a crime, and not reason for RS, then how can he assult someone?
Bronson
Regular Member
imported post
ethernetweb wrote:
tells us that he'd just make something up and that his dept. and PA would, probably, have backed him up on it.
Listen the audio from TVance's encounter. They were working very hard trying to figure out some charge they could hit him with.
There is alsothe story that was on the news recently about the woman who was cited for drunk driving but only after the officer hit her car from behind. The audio/video shows them discussing how they are going to doctor the report to make it look like it was her fault.
Bronson
ethernetweb wrote:
Because this:
tells us that he'd just make something up and that his dept. and PA would, probably, have backed him up on it.
Listen the audio from TVance's encounter. They were working very hard trying to figure out some charge they could hit him with.
There is alsothe story that was on the news recently about the woman who was cited for drunk driving but only after the officer hit her car from behind. The audio/video shows them discussing how they are going to doctor the report to make it look like it was her fault.
Bronson
Bronson
Regular Member
imported post
Just went and read the linked thread. Wow, there are some ignorant, frightened people over there.
Bronson
Just went and read the linked thread. Wow, there are some ignorant, frightened people over there.
Bronson
Jblack44
Regular Member
imported post
Yep...No love for open carry over there. It's too bad that they all cling to the same (non validated) beliefs of what "could" happen.
Once again though the few LEO that really oppose it sure do expose themselves as being superior to regular citizens and tere god given rights
Yep...No love for open carry over there. It's too bad that they all cling to the same (non validated) beliefs of what "could" happen.
Once again though the few LEO that really oppose it sure do expose themselves as being superior to regular citizens and tere god given rights
Michigander
Regular Member
imported post
I believe this guy is either a liar, or a truly rare kind of psychopath, because if he would openly admit to attempting to assault and falsely prosecute people, it's hard to believe he was ever a cop for any length of time.
We've seen felony stops, we've seen false arrests, we've seen wrongful prosecutions, we've even seen some moron cops draw down on a few people, but no one has ever been beat up by the police for open carrying that I am aware of.
In almost any circumstance, resisting unlawful arrest as an open carrier would be the last thing anyone would want because of the possible political repercussions. We could see media outrage, and open carry banned by popular demand. But stomping on someones neck, in my opinion, could easily break it and paralyze or kill that person, and it would be an excellent reason to use force to stop that person.
I believe the reason we haven't seen this sort of thing is that the police are well aware that they could easily go to prison or be shot for doing that sort of thing. That is why I believe this guy is merely a liar who is trying to piss people off.
I believe this guy is either a liar, or a truly rare kind of psychopath, because if he would openly admit to attempting to assault and falsely prosecute people, it's hard to believe he was ever a cop for any length of time.
We've seen felony stops, we've seen false arrests, we've seen wrongful prosecutions, we've even seen some moron cops draw down on a few people, but no one has ever been beat up by the police for open carrying that I am aware of.
In almost any circumstance, resisting unlawful arrest as an open carrier would be the last thing anyone would want because of the possible political repercussions. We could see media outrage, and open carry banned by popular demand. But stomping on someones neck, in my opinion, could easily break it and paralyze or kill that person, and it would be an excellent reason to use force to stop that person.
I believe the reason we haven't seen this sort of thing is that the police are well aware that they could easily go to prison or be shot for doing that sort of thing. That is why I believe this guy is merely a liar who is trying to piss people off.
jeremy05
Regular Member
imported post
wow, all I can say
wow, all I can say
T Vance
Regular Member
imported post
Are you sure that that person is truely who he says he is? Not saying it may not be, just throwing it out there because of these words "stupid-if I was a uniform copper and came upon a guy carrying open-he'd be face down in the dirt with my size 12 combat boot on the back on his neck".
Regardless, some of the talk on the other forum is reckless. Thiscomment stood out to me "I have talked to several guys that open carry and asked why? Mostly these where very young guys about 21 or so. They all said "because I can" or "it's cool".
Are you sure that that person is truely who he says he is? Not saying it may not be, just throwing it out there because of these words "stupid-if I was a uniform copper and came upon a guy carrying open-he'd be face down in the dirt with my size 12 combat boot on the back on his neck".
Regardless, some of the talk on the other forum is reckless. Thiscomment stood out to me "I have talked to several guys that open carry and asked why? Mostly these where very young guys about 21 or so. They all said "because I can" or "it's cool".
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
imported post
Michigander wrote:
+1
Michigander wrote:
+1
Toledo Kid
New member
imported post
T Vance wrote:
Two things here.
(One) you need to brush up and run a Google on Evan Marshall.
See what comes up....
(Two) Join his site and ask him!!!
Get on there and rub his nose about "Open Carry".
Then come back and tell me if he is "Whom" he is...
T Vance wrote:
T Vance....
Two things here.
(One) you need to brush up and run a Google on Evan Marshall.
See what comes up....
(Two) Join his site and ask him!!!
Get on there and rub his nose about "Open Carry".
Then come back and tell me if he is "Whom" he is...
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
imported post
Doesn't really matter the owner closed the topic. They are just spouting off myths anyway.
Doesn't really matter the owner closed the topic. They are just spouting off myths anyway.
jeremy05
Regular Member
imported post
I signed up, but the topic was locked? I don't know why. I sent an email to Evan but I dont think it will help.
People who are so closed minded to open carry as just as bad as the anti carry people.
ZOMG CC is the best!!! No other way can be justified in any way what so ever!! You will be shot first in a robber! You just look like a thug! You are out to cause trouble! :banghead:
I signed up, but the topic was locked? I don't know why. I sent an email to Evan but I dont think it will help.
People who are so closed minded to open carry as just as bad as the anti carry people.
ZOMG CC is the best!!! No other way can be justified in any way what so ever!! You will be shot first in a robber! You just look like a thug! You are out to cause trouble! :banghead:
T Vance
Regular Member
imported post
I not going to join a forum that is only going to see it one way, and they don't have statistics to back up some of the claims some of them are making. I'm sure it would be like trying to talk to a brick wall.
I don't know about others, but myself and many of the others I have met a the few picnics I've been to don't seem to be OCing to stroke their own ego. Personally I do OC "because I can". I also drive a car, eat what foods I want to, and say what I want "because I can". I also do it to get other people comfortable with seeing guns out in public places, and to educate people, though no strangers have approached me to ask about my gun.
I not going to join a forum that is only going to see it one way, and they don't have statistics to back up some of the claims some of them are making. I'm sure it would be like trying to talk to a brick wall.
I don't know about others, but myself and many of the others I have met a the few picnics I've been to don't seem to be OCing to stroke their own ego. Personally I do OC "because I can". I also drive a car, eat what foods I want to, and say what I want "because I can". I also do it to get other people comfortable with seeing guns out in public places, and to educate people, though no strangers have approached me to ask about my gun.
jeremy05
Regular Member
imported post
Thats why you dont TALK to them. Just listen and ask questions. Most people will eventually see both sides. Ask "why" and "where did you get that information"
That should cover 90% of the entire conversation! :lol:
Thats why you dont TALK to them. Just listen and ask questions. Most people will eventually see both sides. Ask "why" and "where did you get that information"
That should cover 90% of the entire conversation! :lol:
malignity
Regular Member
imported post
Toledo Kid wrote:
TheSzerdi case anyone?
Toledo Kid wrote:
TheSzerdi case anyone?
imported post
That is scary stuff, a former LEO advocating this type of harassment of law abiding citizens just because HE doesn't like it.
I noticed after this goofs post people were saying that they took offense to the notion that an LEO would try and trump up a case against the person OCing when in the first post by that Evan person he said he would have the guy "face down in the dirt with my size 12 combat boot on the back on his neck AND I'm sure we could find an approriate charge that I would be extremely comfortable using."
And this even more disturbing comment from this former LEO.
"additionally, people who've never been involved in a deadly force encounter could make a foolish move that could be easily misinterpreted and result in their death."
This final post on that thread from the blowhard, he is trying to backpedal from what he said in his first post after some readers realized that what he said is was exactly what he meant. He knows what he meant and so do we.
"people who think I or any other copper would trump up charges needs to think about relocating their thoughts to ego. com"
I had never been to that site before but that guy sounds like a self important blowhard to me.
I liked this post from someone on that thread.
"Some of you rationalize it to be machismo because that's why you would do it."
When I start to OC it certainly will not be machismo since I am a woman.
That is scary stuff, a former LEO advocating this type of harassment of law abiding citizens just because HE doesn't like it.
I noticed after this goofs post people were saying that they took offense to the notion that an LEO would try and trump up a case against the person OCing when in the first post by that Evan person he said he would have the guy "face down in the dirt with my size 12 combat boot on the back on his neck AND I'm sure we could find an approriate charge that I would be extremely comfortable using."
And this even more disturbing comment from this former LEO.
"additionally, people who've never been involved in a deadly force encounter could make a foolish move that could be easily misinterpreted and result in their death."
This final post on that thread from the blowhard, he is trying to backpedal from what he said in his first post after some readers realized that what he said is was exactly what he meant. He knows what he meant and so do we.
"people who think I or any other copper would trump up charges needs to think about relocating their thoughts to ego. com"
I had never been to that site before but that guy sounds like a self important blowhard to me.
I liked this post from someone on that thread.
"Some of you rationalize it to be machismo because that's why you would do it."
When I start to OC it certainly will not be machismo since I am a woman.
xraygil1
Regular Member
imported post
I used to be a big fan of his! Have his book and thought it was ok.However I now know that he is just a product of the Detroit Police system. They have their own academy and train most of their own officers, and the system is POLITICAL. You only have to lok at who's run the city to know what the policing is going to be like. Detroit is so third world that the FBI currently monitors the police Dept. here constantly for violations. I guess you can't catch 'em all.
I used to be a big fan of his! Have his book and thought it was ok.However I now know that he is just a product of the Detroit Police system. They have their own academy and train most of their own officers, and the system is POLITICAL. You only have to lok at who's run the city to know what the policing is going to be like. Detroit is so third world that the FBI currently monitors the police Dept. here constantly for violations. I guess you can't catch 'em all.
imported post
xraygil1 wrote:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2009/07/25/detroit_police_monitor_linked_to_kilpatrick_quits/
xraygil1 wrote:
Let's hope the next one to monitor the police will actually be doing their job instead of the former mayor.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2009/07/25/detroit_police_monitor_linked_to_kilpatrick_quits/
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
imported post
I think his thoughts on open-carry are perhaps as valuable as his supposed "data" that he passes off as the "science" of stopping power. I know some have seen the issues with his data as minor, I think that one could argue that the types of data errors shown in his seminal work were indicative of his desire to expound his personal beliefs.
His methodology in regards to "stopping power" falls short in regards to commonly accepted notions of rigorousness and his conclusions regarding OC are worse; he develops what-if "thought experiment" scenarios as evidence of the foolishness of OC. Then, to convince us that he thinks that by writing a book or being a LEO he is better than those who share opposing vews, he vows to use brute force to get his point across... what a loser.
Once again... the common refrain: I'm a gun owner (cop, lawyer, politician, researcher, doctor, etc) and OC is a poor choice (illegal, not wise, "disturbing the Peace, Brandishing, etc). Until such time as people actually ask these pundits to support their conclusions with some semblance of real data, they will continue to spout the "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV" line. At least Marcus Welby, MD (Robert Young) didn't threaten to assault people who chose a different pain reliever. I'm surprised that people even listen to this type of egotistical banter anymore.
I think his thoughts on open-carry are perhaps as valuable as his supposed "data" that he passes off as the "science" of stopping power. I know some have seen the issues with his data as minor, I think that one could argue that the types of data errors shown in his seminal work were indicative of his desire to expound his personal beliefs.
His methodology in regards to "stopping power" falls short in regards to commonly accepted notions of rigorousness and his conclusions regarding OC are worse; he develops what-if "thought experiment" scenarios as evidence of the foolishness of OC. Then, to convince us that he thinks that by writing a book or being a LEO he is better than those who share opposing vews, he vows to use brute force to get his point across... what a loser.
Once again... the common refrain: I'm a gun owner (cop, lawyer, politician, researcher, doctor, etc) and OC is a poor choice (illegal, not wise, "disturbing the Peace, Brandishing, etc). Until such time as people actually ask these pundits to support their conclusions with some semblance of real data, they will continue to spout the "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV" line. At least Marcus Welby, MD (Robert Young) didn't threaten to assault people who chose a different pain reliever. I'm surprised that people even listen to this type of egotistical banter anymore.