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Thread: Threat of bodily harm and trespassing in NM

  1. #1
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    Had an unfortunate incident happen the other night. An ex-coworker who was withholding company goods (from the company he was fired from) threatened me over the phone to do bodily harm to me if I showed up at his new work to get them from him. He then threatened to do more damage to me at my home (I didn't know he knew my home address). His words..."I will beat you to a pulp"

    Notified him in writing via text that he was forbidden from entering my property and that I would defend myself from threat of great bodily harm (he's 260, 6'4").

    Called the Dona Ana County sheriff to notify them of the threat. Here's where it gets interesting, since I lived in TX for 18 years (up until 5 years ago). The sheriff tells me that my notifying this guy, under NM law, it is not considered official notice. He has to show up at my place, then I have to call the police/sheriff....then they have to tell the guy that he may no longer come onto my property. They then give him a written warning...I get a copy and so does the sheriff. If he shows again, then they can arrest him for a misdemeanor trespassing offense.

    Does something seem wrong with this scenario to anyone besides me?



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    keep it locked and loaded sir, ready for defense, and we always shoot to stop, never to kill........ and aim for center mass.................

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    Forgive me if I'm missing something, but why do you care so much about some companies property? Seems like getting property that isn't even yours isn't worth getting serious threats over.

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    You are right. I've since divulged missplaced delegation. Still can't believe NM law. Something has got to be done to fix this problem with our law.

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    Here's what the NM Bill of Rights says about it...


    Sec. 4. All persons are born equally free, and have certain natural, inherent and inalienable rights, among which are the rights of enjoying and defending life and liberty, of acquiring, possessing and protecting property, and of seeking and obtaining safety and happiness.

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    mserr wrote:
    Forgive me if I'm missing something, but why do you care so much about some companies property? Seems like getting property that isn't even yours isn't worth getting serious threats over.
    To paraphrase a legendary piece:

    They came for my company's property, and I didn't speak up. They came for my neighbor's property, and I didn't speak up. . . .

    Anybody who has any interest in living unmolested has an interest in upholding the rule of law. I know that if something of mine was stolen, I would be very grateful to any private citizen who got it from the thief and returned it to me.

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    Flyer22 wrote:
    mserr wrote:
    Forgive me if I'm missing something, but why do you care so much about some companies property? Seems like getting property that isn't even yours isn't worth getting serious threats over.
    To paraphrase a legendary piece:

    They came for my company's property, and I didn't speak up. They came for my neighbor's property, and I didn't speak up. . . .

    Anybody who has any interest in living unmolested has an interest in upholding the rule of law. I know that if something of mine was stolen, I would be very grateful to any private citizen who got it from the thief and returned it to me.
    I disagree, and changing words so they reference propertyinstead of a human being substantially changes the meaning.

    In general and especially consideringthe threat already leveled, it's not your responsibilityto get the property back to the business- that's what the business ownerand the police are for.

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    Unfortunately, this thread...which I started, has had but one relevant post to the real question of the thread...what is wrong with the state authority having to give official notice of trespassing, and that being a warning, even though the person had already been notified in writing, by me, the resident, and threatened party?

    The relevant post was citing the NM bill of rights, by Desert Prospector, which appears to conflict with the current state law where it regards my health and safety concerning trespassing.

    So...what can we do about this? Or is there something in the books right now that addresses this conflict?



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    I'm not familiar with NM law.I'm also not all that familiar with 9-1-1.

    I am however very familiar with 2 to the center of mass, to stop a threat,whether I am on or off, my property.

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    I had a similar incident a few years back. One of my brothers drug dealer friends kept calling me and harrasing me. Said he was going to F**K me up. SO said it was a threat with intent, and they could not do anything until he carried out his threat. So when this punk ass actually show up to do me great bodily harm, I produced my weapon. (I don't live in city limits and have 1.5 acres of land. maybe 100 ft from driveway to porch.) He was actually un-afraid of a .270 locked and loaded! After several verbal warnings from me he still refused to leave. (by this time he was less than 30 ft. to me) After a warning shot into my front yard (I wanted to make sure the bullet did not go far) He called the police. from my front yard. 2 min. later I was cuffed in a squad car! Talk about F'd up!

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    Can't get an RO?
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Scooter88310 wrote:
    I had a similar incident a few years back. One of my brothers drug dealer friends kept calling me and harrasing me. Said he was going to F**K me up. SO said it was a threat with intent, and they could not do anything until he carried out his threat. So when this punk ass actually show up to do me great bodily harm, I produced my weapon. (I don't live in city limits and have 1.5 acres of land. maybe 100 ft from driveway to porch.) He was actually un-afraid of a .270 locked and loaded! After several verbal warnings from me he still refused to leave. (by this time he was less than 30 ft. to me) After a warning shot into my front yard (I wanted to make sure the bullet did not go far) He called the police. from my front yard. 2 min. later I was cuffed in a squad car! Talk about F'd up!
    and then what?

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    ADA charged me Agg. assault w/deadly weapon. Got jerked around for a year before my public pretender got it into court. Pled down to simple assault (mis) and neg. use of a deadly weapon. (pet. mis) 1yr. prob. and 15 days in jail. FOR SELF DEFENSE!! That judge was a dick. Used my driving record to call me a "repeat offender". I'll admit, I thought I was Bo Duke when I was younger, but hadn't been pulled over on 3 years. Nothin happened to the other guy. little bastard. But I haven't heard from him since.

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    SO said because my brother lived in another house on the property there was nothing they could do because he was invited.

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    Scooter88310 wrote:
    SO said because my brother lived in another house on the property there was nothing they could do because he was invited.
    your brother would have been kicked out next had he been my brother, or possibly beat the sh*t out of... that sucks he helped the other guy out.

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    its bad that it went that way but you hear it very often the stories about people pulling guns on people that don't have one and getting arrested.

    I know it's not what you want to hear but, you should have called the police first instead of handling it yourself, also it gives you the opportunity to tell yourside first and the story told first is normally (whether right or wrong) the most credible to the audience, in this case the dispatcher/officers. then your buddy either has the option to leave or explain why he's there. or you yourself can leave. I know I know, its your property and you didn't kill or shoot anyone. But, unfortunatly that's how it goes.

    personally, if you are on my property and i give you a warning and you don't heed it. I should be able to blast you and bury you without legal fuss.

    I'm sorry that stupid incident gave you a record. that's horrible. you where set up for failure on that one.

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    Yeah, I've moved past it tho... Water under the bridge. No felony conviction, so thats good. But i'll probably never be able to get a CCW permit.

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    I'm glad that things worked out relatively well for you. It sounds like things could have gotten really nasty. Having said that, however, you produced a textbook case of what not to do.

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    but, we can all monday morning quarterback this to death. we wheren't there. sorry it went how it did scoot.

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    He has company property? Why not call the sheriff and have the stuff picked
    up by them? Give them a list of items, and let the system work for you.
    For the threats, get a recorder. That they have a record of you trying
    to trespass, and him threatening you should help when they come to collect
    the corpse on the lawn though.

    That does seem strange that you can't trespass someone till after they trespass.
    I'll have to remind wall mart of that one when they stop me at the door.:shock:

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    SlackwareRobert wrote:
    He has company property? Why not call the sheriff and have the stuff picked
    up by them? Give them a list of items, and let the system work for you.
    For the threats, get a recorder. That they have a record of you trying
    to trespass, and him threatening you should help when they come to collect
    the corpse on the lawn though.

    That does seem strange that you can't trespass someone till after they trespass.
    I'll have to remind wall mart of that one when they stop me at the door.:shock:
    But, if he has received threats, he should be able to get a Restraining Order against him.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Im just glad I could educate people. (*goofy sarcasm*) But definately not going to do that again. But I don't think I'm gonna have to. Since my brother moved i have had no contact from any of his uncouth friends. And my brother has really turned his life around. I guess this is where we would put "and they all lived happily ever after." Funny thing tho... I did some training as a sheriff reserve, they told me that as long as i felt my life was in danger of "death or great bodily harm" I was authorized to use deadly force. Guess that only applies to those with a badge, huh?

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    It seems like knowledge of NM trespass law might be helpful in such situations, if applied proactively.

    http://law.justia.com/newmexico/code...14-1-8389.html

    "30-14-1. Criminal trespass. A. Criminal trespass consists of knowingly entering or remaining upon posted private property without possessing written permission from the owner or person in control of the land."

    "B. Criminal trespass also consists of knowingly entering or remaining upon the unposted lands of another knowing that such consent to enter or remain is denied or withdrawn by the owner or occupant thereof. Notice of no consent to enter shall be deemed sufficient notice to the public and evidence to the courts, by the posting of the property at all vehicular access entry ways."

    I'm no lawyer, but this means of notification should be adequate to establish that a person is trespassing providing the proper sign is used (I'll leave it to someone else to research the sign specifics, which are important.) I expect that notification by registered, recorded delivery mail that entry is prohibited would reinforce one's position with respect to a specific person.

    If an unauthorized person passes the sign, a peace officer can force him to leave, and one should have sufficient grounds for prosecution, because the sign is evidence that the trespasser has been notified.

    In the case of shared ownership or occupancy, I expect that an adequate written agreement between the co-occupants would be sufficient to delineate a boundary that one could post and legally defend.

    I think one can also sign a complaint at the sheriff's office of a threat, even though they cannot do anything about it without evidence. That complaint is somewhat equivalent to being the first to make the telephone call. NOW you can say that the person who is on file as having threatened you is trespassing on your property.

    You still cannot make the fundamental mistake of drawing on an (apparently) unarmed trespasser in NM unless you can articulate a reasonable basis for fear of imminent death or serious injury, but you are in a much stronger position to articulate that fear.

    It would be interesting to get a legal take on this.

    C

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    Thanks for the post. It sort of seems to amount to what the sheriff's deputy told me over the phone. This thread got hijacked for a while so I haven't checked it in a while.

    I think our trespassing law in NM needs revision.

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    Personally, I would not depend on what the sheriff's deputy told me. As has been said many times, they are no more legal experts than I.

    If a crime has been committed, and there is evidence of it, they should be able to act. In my previous post I outlined how to show that a crime (trespass) HAS been committed.

    Obviously the sheriff's office can't do much if you only alledge a crime has been committed. In many states, including NM, if you order a person to leave your unposted property, they must do so. But you can't take action against them because no crime has been committed. If they refuse to leave, they are now trespassing, but how are you going to prove you ordered them to leave earlier? In this circumstance if you call the sheriff & he shows up, you can tell the person to leave in front of the sheriff. This act is known as "trespassing" the intruder.

    NOW, if the person shows up on your property again, the sheriff can act, because the order to "keep off" has been documented. This may be what your sheriff's office was referring to.

    The fact that the person has made undocumented (or documented) threats in the past is irrelevant to trespass or to use of deadly force, except that if documented it may help to establish premeditation in court. You can defend yourself to the extent NM law permits in general.

    So it is better to post your property and call the sheriff to handle any trespass that arises, rather than to confront (in particular) a known threat. It's a variant of the rules that being armed does not make it wise to go to unsafe places, and that carrying a weapon does not mean that one should use it, except as a last resort under specifically defined circumstances permitted by law. A trespasser has the same rights to life and liberty as anyone else who you think MAY be a threat (like it or not) as desert-prospector pointed out in his quote from the NM Bill of Rights; and although that same Bill allows you to protect your property, it does not address the means to which you are restricted in doing so by law (and certainly does not endorse use of deadly force for the purpose).

    I'm not a lawyer as I said before, and I'm not sure how the NM law could be changed to make it more satisfactory, given that a person must be able to know when he is trespassing, and that his knowledge AT THE TIME must be demonstrable in court.

    Patrolling one's property armed is thus futile, except to provide last-resort defense, much as one might find that reality distasteful. And it might work to one's disadvantage, because it opens the door to accusation of premeditation, in the event shots are exchanged.

    C








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