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Madison Open Carry Arrest. Paging Travis Yates

M

Mike

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bnhcomputing wrote:
First, he isn't facing CRIMINAL CHARGES as I understand it. This is MUNICIPAL COURT just like Krause.
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Disorderly conduct is a crime, hence the issuance of a summons for the offense,so yeah, this is a serious matter and the young man needs to get representation.
 
N

Nutczak

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Mike wrote:
bnhcomputing wrote:
First, he isn't facing CRIMINAL CHARGES as I understand it. This is MUNICIPAL COURT just like Krause.
Click to expand...
Disorderly conduct is a crime, hence the issuance of a summons for the offense,so yeah, this is a serious matter and the young man needs to get representation.
Click to expand...

I agree with mike, Disorderly conduct is a crime, and a crime on his record that is large enough to keephim from being able tojoin a federal law enforcement organization like the coast guard. (I found out the hard way) and other "Sensitive positions in the future.

Travishas 6 weeks before his initial appearance, alot can happen in that time. I am betting all charges will be dropped before that time. If they are not, and this actually does go to trial. I wholeheartedly believe legal representation is a must.

Paying the retainer of $3,500.00 now, may be premature. I doubt any attorney would refund his money if & when the case gets dropped. I bet there is alot of backroom 2nd guessing going on right now in the city's management team, and someone is going to get a boob caught in the wringer before this is done and over with.

A rights violation lawsuit is definitely in order, I glanced over the AG's memo again, and read through the Madison memo in response to the AG's memo. They basically used it as a challenge to get around what the AG stated and will continue to harass, Charge & arrest law abiding citizens for exercising their 2A rights.

Now one other thought, right now I can understand the city attorney thinking they screwed up, if Mr. Yates comes at them with an attorney right away, they may take that as a challenge (just like they did with the AG's memo) and go out of their way to make his life difficult and try to turn this into a war of attrition. Who do you think is going to win?? A grad student in this economy, or the states capitol with billions of taxpayer monies to squander away on frivolous bullschitt?
 
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Pal

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hugh jarmis wrote:
Well I agree that the civil case offers the opportunity to set a precedent that departments will listen to without the risk of criminal charges hanging over your head.

I'll be honest, when I gave the money to Brad Krause it was immediately after his last hearing where he was found not guilty and I was under the impression he was going to file a civil suit and he never did (or hasn't yet) That was the whole reason I gave him the money.

I guess now I'm just kinda sitting here wondering if we throw money at someone elses defense, are they gonna follow through and file a f'ing civil case to provide a return on everyone's investment or not?????

Sitting here shoveling off money for everyones legal defense but not gaining ANYTHING actionable or precedent setting is frustrating.

If all we ever do is spend money to defend muni cases we'll never make any real progress but blow tens of thousands in the process.

I felt jilted by Brad Krausedoing nothing. I guess the bad taste is still in my mouth.

I mean he had by allaccounts a great attorney.If the case is over and there has been no civil suit, I presume his legal counsel advised him there wasn't anything to be gained. I recall some of Brads de-facto "spokepersons" on the board asking what he would sue for. And with the rumors of what he spent on his legal defense, along withhis statements that it ruined his business, along with the deprivation of his property for so long... It seems to me there was PLENTY to sue for. But I'm not a lawyer, and Brad did have a lawyer... And nothing was filed...

I mean if Brad's attorney didn't think a civil case was a good idea...well... now I'm suppose to think its the answer?
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I agree with you on your statement here regarding civil law suit against the police department who violated his rights. We will wait and see if Brad will file it or not.
 
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J.Gleason

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I am pretty sure I will be jumped on for this by some of you , but here it goes anyway.

He needs to fight this in municipal court as aggressively as he would in circuit court or the SSC.

No messing around, if people just keep letting things slide there will never be a precedence set. Like Hugh said, why donate when nothing comes of it.

Win this in Municipal Court and then sue their asses. That includes the woman that called the cops on you too!

She is inclusive in the suit because the U.S. Code is specific in that "Every Person" who subjects or "Causes to be subjected" by any color of ordinance ( I have shortened this up a bit to save space) is liable to suit in equity.

She called the cops even though he had done nothing wrong. She called the cops on purpose by her own admission and therefore caused him to be subjected by the officer to deprivation of rights.

Sue her, the cop and the city. Do it right! Once you sue her, it will make the news nation wide. From that point on people will think twice before calling the cops on some one who is not doing anything illegal.

Molon Labe!
 
P

Pal

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J.Gleason wrote:
I am pretty sure I will be jumped on for this by some of you , but here it goes anyway.

He needs to fight this in municipal court as aggressively as he would in circuit court or the SSC.

No messing around, if people just keep letting things slide there will never be a precedence set. Like Hugh said, why donate when nothing comes of it.

Win this in Municipal Court and then sue their asses. That includes the woman that called the cops on you too!

She is inclusive in the suit because the U.S. Code is specific in that "Every Person" who subjects or "Causes to be subjected" by any color of ordinance ( I have shortened this up a bit to save space) is liable to suit in equity.

She called the cops even though he had done nothing wrong. She called the cops on purpose by her own admission and therefore caused him to be subjected by the officer to deprivation of rights.

Sue her, the cop and the city. Do it right! Once you sue her, it will make the news nation wide. From that point on people will think twice before calling the cops on some one who is not doing anything illegal.

Molon Labe!
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An excellent point here. Everyone who involved in this situation should be responsible for their actions.:D
 
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Doug Huffman

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http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hyman_G._Rickover
Responsibility is a unique concept.
You may share it with others, but your portion is not diminished.
You may delegate it, but it is still with you.
If responsibility is rightfully yours, no evasion, or ignorance or passing the blame can shift the burden to someone else.
Unless you can point your finger at the man who is responsible when something goes wrong, then you have never had anyone really responsible
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J

J.Gleason

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The Rickover Effect (1992) Quotations of Rickover from The Rickover Effect (1992) by Theodore Rockwell, ISBN 1-55750-702-3
  • It is said that a wise man who stands firm is a statesman, and a foolish man who stands firm is a catastrophe.
An awesome quote!
 
Shotgun

Shotgun

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bnhcomputing wrote:
We know this will NEVER get to the Supreme Court while Van Hollen is AG, because his office would be required to defend the city, and his advisory memo basically said he wouldn't.
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I believe his office is NOT required to defend the city. They could tell them that they're on their own with this one. I could be mistaken, but I believe that's what they told Milwaukee County with the pizza guy (Vegas) case. Maybe someone more familiar with that case can enlighten us.
 
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bigus

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Some thoughts on this situation: note that none of these thoughts should be construed as legal advice.

Mr. Yates should definitely retain a criminal defense attorney first and deal with that aspect of the situation first. Without a final resolution of the criminal charges, a civil case would be preliminary. Something to keep in mind is the procedure in a case like this in Wisconsin. Regardless of the outcome at the municipal level, the losing side will have the right to appeal the decision to Dane County for de novo proceedings; in other words, the losing side can request that the whole thing start over in County court with no deference to the municipal ruling.

Mr. Yates, feel free to contact me via e-mail or through this board.
 
ixtow

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I've got money, but only if he goes after it... I'll donate to the cause of kicking some JBT ass, but not just giving money away for nothing...

I absolutely LOVE to see the cops get sued for breaching the civil trust. Not just because it makes the world a better place, but because I have known so many who brag about getting away with it. I don't think there is anything on earth that I hate more.

Stick it to 'em, and I'll donate.
 
ixtow

ixtow

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McX wrote:
I just hope someone in the courts, whether it be the judge, or prosecutor ends this problem early, and dismisses the charge(s) before lawyers have to be hired, and time drags by, and the media sensationalizes it.
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I'm not from Wisconsin, but having perused the laws referenced by the AG, I cannot imagine a Judge having the balls to fly so blatantly in the face of the law and legislate from the bench on this one. It seems pretty air-tight to me.

But that's easy to say when you aren't the subject of the drumhead...
 
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J.Gleason

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McX wrote:
I just hope someone in the courts, whether it be the judge, or prosecutor ends this problem early, and dismisses the charge(s) before lawyers have to be hired, and time drags by, and the media sensationalizes it.
Click to expand...
Actually, isn't this exactly what we want to happen? When will we ever get a precedence set if it doesn't happen?

We need a fight in court! We will win! Laws will change!
 
M

Mike

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J.Gleason wrote:
McX wrote:
I just hope someone in the courts, whether it be the judge, or prosecutor ends this problem early, and dismisses the charge(s) before lawyers have to be hired, and time drags by, and the media sensationalizes it.
Click to expand...
Actually, isn't this exactly what we want to happen? When will we ever get a precedence set if it doesn't happen?

We need a fight in court! We will win! Laws will change!
Click to expand...
The fight to change behavior is via civil action - hopefully, the Defendant in this case is getting adequate counsel to approach the case wholistically with a follow on civil action in mind.
 
AaronS

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I agree Mike. With out a few good civil cases, I do not see this ever stopping. The cops do not care about our rights at all. The bosses of the cops are telling them to go out and get all of us for OC'ing. The only way to put a stop to this is to bite them back, in the only place that it will be felt, the budget. After a case or two ($20,000-$50,000), I sure would think the head cops will be told to stop.

I say the first person to win a case, should have to pay for the next picnic!;) Pay for a big tent, and maybe even a band!:celebrate

Carry On!
 
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