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Thread: A conceal carrier's worst nighmare

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    I posted this on utahconcealedcarry.com but thought people here might like to hear it as well.

    This experience happend during the middle of the day while I was on my way to play 9 holes with a friend. I was in the passenger seat of my friend's new accura and we were driving to a golf course in West Valley. We were just talking and minding our own business when all of a sudden this big Chevy Blaser starts riding us and swerving at us, and the guys inside were flipping us off out their windows. My friend and I had absolutely no clue why they were doing this but, when the lane opened back up into two lanes, by friend kindly took the right lane so they could pass us on the left. As they came up alongside his car though, a big 64 ounce drink slammed into his window.

    My friend, not a permit holder and not at all knowledgable about the responsabilities of carrying, lost his temper and pulled behind them as they signaled us to follow them into a parking lot. As he started pulling in, I objected and said "just let it go, we can go through a car wash. It's not a big deal". He persisted in following them stating that he wanted to make them pay for hitting his car. I told him it was a bad idea and i reminded him that I was carrying my gun (a SIG P229 .40) and we need to be responsable. He knew I carried, but he didn't understand the responsabilities associated with that, and he was now making us the aggressors.

    We pulled into the parking lot and they pulled into a parking space and my friend parked right behind them to block them in (again making us the aggressors). He quickly got out of his car and I decided I better get out to hopefully de-escalate the situation before it turned ugly. We hadn't had a good chance to see who was in the Blaser, so we were pretty much going into this blind. And keep in mind, I'm only 5'9 165lbs and he isn't much bigger.

    To make a bad situation worse, their doors opened and a group of very big, very mean looking, tatooed up polynesian guys stepped out of the blaser. I don't want to stereotype or anything but these guys looked like very mean gang bangers who wouldn't be afraid of beating us mercilessly, or worse.

    Now I was in a real crappy predicament. My adrenaline was pumping and I had the feeling that this situation could turn very bad, very quickly if not handled properly. Because of my friend's stupid decisions, we were now the aggressors in this situation, therefore ruling out the possible use of my gun to defend ourselves if neccessary.

    The guys who got out of the blaser immediately got in our faces and started saying, in no unpleasant terms, that they were gonna beat the living piss out of us and saying something about us cutting them off when the road first merged from one lane until two etc etc.
    I was trying very intently to keep my cool, the whole time praying to high heaven that I wouldn't have to pull my gun. Especially since there was 4 of them and they could have been armed as well.
    Luckily for me, my friend, upon seeing 4 big polys, kept his mouth mostly shut. I took charge and calmly told them that we didn't want any trouble and that we were just driving normally and didn't even realized we cut anyone off. I told them that my friend was just a little upset that they threw a 64 ounce coke at his new car, but that it was ok and there didn't need to be a fight over this.
    I don't think that is what they expected to hear (I think they wanted a fight), and luckily for everyone, a few calm words seemed to slightly de-escalate things. They still acted tough and used alot of colorful words to make sure we knew they were tougher than us, but eventually they got back in their car and so did we.

    I learned a few good lessons in this experience.

    1. Avoid confrontation at all cost! I'm armed everywhere I go, but at the end of the day, I REALLY don't want to ever have to shoot someone. I train weekly and know I would have absolutely no problem pulling the trigger if neccessary, but going through the legal, social, and emotional reprocussions of taking a life would be a nightmare.
    2. Things happen very fast. If they had decided to skip the talk, and just rush us, there would have been almost no time to make split second decisions. Train often so drawing and shooting is like 2nd nature.
    3. Do whatever you can to de-escalate a bad situation. Dropping your pride and calmly backing down from a fight or confrontation is not only our responsability as CCW holders, but can in alot of instances, ensure that all parties make it home at the end of the day.

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    Brandon C wrote:
    I posted this on utahconcealedcarry.com but thought people here might like to hear it as well.

    This experience happend during the middle of the day while I was on my way to play 9 holes with a friend. I was in the passenger seat of my friend's new accura and we were driving to a golf course in West Valley. We were just talking and minding our own business when all of a sudden this big Chevy Blaser starts riding us and swerving at us, and the guys inside were flipping us off out their windows. My friend and I had absolutely no clue why they were doing this but, when the lane opened back up into two lanes, by friend kindly took the right lane so they could pass us on the left. As they came up alongside his car though, a big 64 ounce drink slammed into his window.

    My friend, not a permit holder and not at all knowledgable about the responsabilities of carrying, lost his temper and pulled behind them as they signaled us to follow them into a parking lot. As he started pulling in, I objected and said "just let it go, we can go through a car wash. It's not a big deal". He persisted in following them stating that he wanted to make them pay for hitting his car. I told him it was a bad idea and i reminded him that I was carrying my gun (a SIG P229 .40) and we need to be responsable. He knew I carried, but he didn't understand the responsabilities associated with that, and he was now making us the aggressors.

    We pulled into the parking lot and they pulled into a parking space and my friend parked right behind them to block them in (again making us the aggressors). He quickly got out of his car and I decided I better get out to hopefully de-escalate the situation before it turned ugly. We hadn't had a good chance to see who was in the Blaser, so we were pretty much going into this blind. And keep in mind, I'm only 5'9 165lbs and he isn't much bigger.

    To make a bad situation worse, their doors opened and a group of very big, very mean looking, tatooed up polynesian guys stepped out of the blaser. I don't want to stereotype or anything but these guys looked like very mean gang bangers who wouldn't be afraid of beating us mercilessly, or worse.

    Now I was in a real crappy predicament. My adrenaline was pumping and I had the feeling that this situation could turn very bad, very quickly if not handled properly. Because of my friend's stupid decisions, we were now the aggressors in this situation, therefore ruling out the possible use of my gun to defend ourselves if neccessary.

    The guys who got out of the blaser immediately got in our faces and started saying, in no unpleasant terms, that they were gonna beat the living piss out of us and saying something about us cutting them off when the road first merged from one lane until two etc etc.
    I was trying very intently to keep my cool, the whole time praying to high heaven that I wouldn't have to pull my gun. Especially since there was 4 of them and they could have been armed as well.
    Luckily for me, my friend, upon seeing 4 big polys, kept his mouth mostly shut. I took charge and calmly told them that we didn't want any trouble and that we were just driving normally and didn't even realized we cut anyone off. I told them that my friend was just a little upset that they threw a 64 ounce coke at his new car, but that it was ok and there didn't need to be a fight over this.
    I don't think that is what they expected to hear (I think they wanted a fight), and luckily for everyone, a few calm words seemed to slightly de-escalate things. They still acted tough and used alot of colorful words to make sure we knew they were tougher than us, but eventually they got back in their car and so did we.

    I learned a few good lessons in this experience.

    1. Avoid confrontation at all cost! I'm armed everywhere I go, but at the end of the day, I REALLY don't want to ever have to shoot someone. I train weekly and know I would have absolutely no problem pulling the trigger if neccessary, but going through the legal, social, and emotional reprocussions of taking a life would be a nightmare.
    2. Things happen very fast. If they had decided to skip the talk, and just rush us, there would have been almost no time to make split second decisions. Train often so drawing and shooting is like 2nd nature.
    3. Do whatever you can to de-escalate a bad situation. Dropping your pride and calmly backing down from a fight or confrontation is not only our responsability as CCW holders, but can in alot of instances, ensure that all parties make it home at the end of the day.


    ... I'd add (and probably will NOT be a popular suggestion) that I'd be dropping that guy as a friend; or at the very least would have told him - or bolt out of the car at stoplight or other - that if he wanted to confront those guys, he'd be doing it alone.

    Have NO issue coming to the defense of aggression aimed at family/friend; however, this guy was adding to the escalation of this event.

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    Considering how potentially dangerous the whole situation was, I think you handled it very well. I hope you told your friend what a damned idiot he was, esp. after you reminded him you were carrying. I don't think I'd ever get in a car with him again.

    Isn't it ironic? The antis like to portray us as a bunch of wild cowboys with undersized penises who "compensate" with oversized guns. Instead, all the testosterone-fueled excess in this scenario had to be defused by the one mature guy with the gun and a level temper. Robert Heinlein understood.....

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    You handled that very well. I would be all over your friends backside though. He had no right to put you in that situation. What did he think he was going to be able to accomplish. He should have just phoned the police and given them a plate number and let LE take it from there.

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    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    Considering how potentially dangerous the whole situation was, I think you handled it very well. I hope you told your friend what a damned idiot he was, esp. after you reminded him you were carrying. I don't think I'd ever get in a car with him again.

    Isn't it ironic? The antis like to portray us as a bunch of wild cowboys with undersized penises who "compensate" with oversized guns. Instead, all the testosterone-fueled excess in this scenario had to be defused by the one mature guy with the gun and a level temper. Robert Heinlein understood.....
    Well said the "ironic" part. In my experience the majority of legally carrying individuals understand the priviledge and responsibility that carrying a firearm is.

    This is what the public needs to see - as apposed to the bu%%shi% that the media portrays us and the image of a firearm as.



    Semper Fidellis.



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    Computer Medic Milwaukee wrote:
    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    Considering how potentially dangerous the whole situation was, I think you handled it very well. I hope you told your friend what a damned idiot he was, esp. after you reminded him you were carrying. I don't think I'd ever get in a car with him again.

    Isn't it ironic? The antis like to portray us as a bunch of wild cowboys with undersized penises who "compensate" with oversized guns. Instead, all the testosterone-fueled excess in this scenario had to be defused by the one mature guy with the gun and a level temper. Robert Heinlein understood.....
    Well said the "ironic" part. In my experience the majority of legally carrying individuals understand the priviledge and responsibility that carrying a firearm is.

    This is what the public needs to see - as apposed to the bu%%shi% that the media portrays us and the image of a firearm as.



    Semper Fidellis.

    Only 1/2 right. It is a right and responsibility. It is NOT a privilege.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    If it was my friend, I would make sure he understood that he would be getting out of the car on his own. I think you handled the situation admirably, but I would never have gotten out of the car.

    I think my friends understand that I only have their backs if they are clearly not the aggressors.

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    Kudos to you for being the calm head. A curse an your friend for putting you into that situation.
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    Thanks for the post, Brandon. Good for learning.

    I think I'll be inclined to tell my friend, "You are now the aggressor. As soon as you stop this car, I am bailing out and running, not walking, running in the opposite direction. You will be on your own."

    Then, after he changes his mind and gets back on the road, I'll brief him on the legalities.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    I'm guessing that he took the fact that you were carrying as a positive when he turned to "aggressor." Hey, my buddy has a gun, that's a plus when I roll up on these guys!

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    Brandon C wrote:
    I learned a few good lessons in this experience.

    1. Avoid confrontation at all cost! I'm armed everywhere I go, but at the end of the day, I REALLY don't want to ever have to shoot someone. I train weekly and know I would have absolutely no problem pulling the trigger if neccessary, but going through the legal, social, and emotional reprocussions of taking a life would be a nightmare.
    2. Things happen very fast. If they had decided to skip the talk, and just rush us, there would have been almost no time to make split second decisions. Train often so drawing and shooting is like 2nd nature.
    3. Do whatever you can to de-escalate a bad situation. Dropping your pride and calmly backing down from a fight or confrontation is not only our responsability as CCW holders, but can in alot of instances, ensure that all parties make it home at the end of the day.
    You should have also learnedthat you would have done well to be more aggressive with your driver/friend. You helped let things get out of hand. You were waytoo passive--apparentlyin someweird effort to be politically correct or something.

    Oncethe driver actually followed the Blazer and youguys were all out of the vehicles, the dice were bringrolled on the outcome. All six of you were on the verge of being out of control in the situation. What a mess you all created.


    Thanks for sharing the incident. It's a fine case study. Some important stuff to think about in this one.

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    ScottyT wrote:
    I think my friends understand that I only have their backs if they are clearly not the aggressors.



    I'm pretty sure there's a man-rule out there somewhere that statesyou are not required to help your buddy in a fight if they're acting like j@ck@$$es to the extent that they deserve a goodbeat-down.


    God is the one driving this stagecoach, I'm just riding shotgun.

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    frommycolddeadhands wrote:
    I'm pretty sure there's a man-rule out there somewhere that statesyou are not required to help your buddy in a fight if they're acting like ...j@ck@$$es.. to the extent that they deserve a goodbeat-down.

    There is such a rule. But it gets violated allllllll the time.

    The OP is an example of it, actually.


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    The problem with a friend like that, is that when you remind them that you carry, they just get more ballsy...

    It wouldn't be his ass on the line, and he just ran you right into it anyway.

    Think about who you call 'friend.'
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    I had a simular inciden't about six years ago, I haven't talked to that "friend" since.

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    One of those situations where you'd hope to have the presence of mind to grab the guy's collar before he exits the vehicle, hit the power door locks, and shake some sense into him without bringing up your CCW.

    Barring deescalation, go with a standing full nelson, drag him away from the opponent(s), get him dazed and behind you, and tell them he's a *********, you apologize on his behalf, and you'll unblock their vehicle as soon as you knock some sense into him, if they want. This might catch them off guard...

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    N6ATF wrote:
    One of those situations where you'd hope to have the presence of mind to grab the guy's collar before he exits the vehicle, hit the power door locks, and shake some sense into him without bringing up your CCW.

    Barring deescalation, go with a standing full nelson, drag him away from the opponent(s), get him dazed and behind you, and tell them he's a *********, you apologize on his behalf, and you'll unblock their vehicle as soon as you knock some sense into him, if they want. This might catch them off guard...
    This is a very rough scenario. But it would likely be the smartest thing to do. Therefore, all things considered, it would be highly recommended.

    Getting out of the car at the off the road pointis the crucial juncture. That's where the incident progression becomes irrevocable.

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    Thanks for all the advice! You are all right on. In hindsight, I should have definitely doneall in my powerto stop my friend from getting us into that situation. It just all happened so fast.

    Reading your comments taught me an important lesson: Know what to do in this type of situation well before it actually happens so my response will be automatic.

    I have run over many "situations" in my head and know how I will respond, however, I had never thought I'd be in that situation when it happened. It just goes to show you how fast things transpire.

    But thanks again for the posts and I have spoken very frankly with that "friend" and have even educated him a great deal in the rules and responsabilities of carrying.

    I'm just glad we were able to walk away from the experience unharmed and learn all the associated lessons.

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    HankT wrote:
    N6ATF wrote:
    One of those situations where you'd hope to have the presence of mind to grab the guy's collar before he exits the vehicle, hit the power door locks, and shake some sense into him without bringing up your CCW.

    Barring deescalation, go with a standing full nelson, drag him away from the opponent(s), get him dazed and behind you, and tell them he's a *********, you apologize on his behalf, and you'll unblock their vehicle as soon as you knock some sense into him, if they want. This might catch them off guard...
    This is a very rough scenario. But it would likely be the smartest thing to do. Therefore, all things considered, it would be highly recommended.

    Getting out of the car at the off the road pointis the crucial juncture. That's where the incident progression becomes irrevocable.
    Amazing that they made it through the "irrevocable" point.
    Brandon C wrote:
    but eventually they got back in their car and so did we.
    .
    They did get out of the car, according to the OP.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    nice job.. I tell people that are just starting to carry that they have to park their EGO at the door when they leave the house...where before you could maybe be a little more mouthy or pushy if you find yourself in a potential confrontation



    I was leaving a Steakhouse w/my wife and two kids (13 and 9) later than normal, it was my B-day so we stayed out until after midnight ..well this place after midnight shares its parking lot w/ a pretty skanky , rough strip joint... the valet for the resturant had gone home and the we were the last patrons to leave the place so it closed behind us..

    Well we walk down the ally and lo and behold 5 young hispanic guys were parked next to my wifes FX45.. they were sitting on on our SUV as well as theirs and were slamming beers b4 they went into the strip bar.. cheap fukers.. anyway they were pretty messed up.. so I got my key FOB out and rattled my keys loudly to let them know it was our vehicle (duh noone else was in sight) but they looked at us and kept speaking that Spanish blabber crap...speak English or GTFO ..

    Anyway they told me they will leave when they are finished (long sigh) ,andtold me to go get fuked..my wife looked at me, she pushed the kids behind her, I had my hand on my FN FiveseveN..I could have very easily taken all 5 out in seconds w/that gun.. 21 rds on board and fires fast as an auto..but I explained my kids were tired and if they could just continue to party on their car it would be much appreciated.. I had to apologize actually for interupting their drinking session.. I think they werent prepared for an apology and they took one big last pull off their beers, threw the cans in my general direction , and slinked off.

    We get in the car and I am fuming..my wife turns to my daughter, who has her own Glock 19 and is a dead shot her self, and says those guys didnt know how close they came to drinking their last beer EVER tonight...

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    Glock It wrote:
    We get in the car and I am fuming..my wife turns to my daughter, who has her own Glock 19 and is a dead shot her self, and says those guys didnt know how close they came to drinking their last beer EVER tonight...
    Your daughter has her own G19?

    :P

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Too funny... Good ol GlockIt is back again with his silly bed time stories of his FN 5-7 and what he can do with it in seconds.

    give it up, kid. Go try writing Penthouse Letters for a change because your silly OC or CC stories don't hold water. Your original AK piece was truly epic, though. One of the funniest stories I've ever read. I truly enjoyed the part about the van and the pepole getting out and the van leaving in a hurry. Did they leave people behind? Did you have to shoot them? Do you still shoot your weapons on the canal behind your house in Florida? How is the medical practice going?

    Keep us rolling, kid!


    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
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    So if you keep an AK in your trunk, what do you keep in your wife's SUV? M-16? Ma-Deuce? 105mm?

  24. #24
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    N6ATF wrote:
    Glock It wrote:
    We get in the car and I am fuming..my wife turns to my daughter, who has her own Glock 19 and is a dead shot her self, and says those guys didnt know how close they came to drinking their last beer EVER tonight...
    Your daughter has her own G19?

    :P
    What's wrong with giving your daughter a Glock? I gave my daughter a G-21 for her 18th birthday. The difference here is that a lot of folks here on OCDO have met us.

    I doubt ClockIt has met anyone on here...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    N6ATF wrote:
    Glock It wrote:
    We get in the car and I am fuming..my wife turns to my daughter, who has her own Glock 19 and is a dead shot her self, and says those guys didnt know how close they came to drinking their last beer EVER tonight...
    Your daughter has her own G19?

    :P
    What's wrong with giving your daughter a Glock? I gave my daughter a G-21 for her 18th birthday. The difference here is that a lot of folks here on OCDO have met us.

    I doubt ClockIt has met anyone on here...
    Just making a grammar joke... :quirky

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