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Thread: Wisconsin's Twilight Zone: Madison PD memo requires all gun carriers be detained

  1. #1
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    I have read this several times, and still keep thinking Rod Sterling is going to come out of closet and say somthing like, "the FourthAmendment may be real, but not here in the Twilight Zone . . ."

    http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/documents/Spring2009.pdf


    SNIP

    "So, MPD officers responding to reports of an individual
    openly carrying a firearm should continue to respond as was
    the case prior to this memo’s release. The suspect should
    generally be detained, using proper tactics to ensure officer
    and community safety. Officers should then conduct an
    investigation
    to determine whether an arrest is appropriate."

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    To support a disorderly conduct charge it will continue to be necessary to show that the carrying of the firearm—under those particular circumstances—was the type of behavior that caused, or tends to cause, a disturbance. The location of the incident, the behavior of the suspect and the reactions of witnesses will all be relevant to this determination.
    This is insane! Apparently they think you should be arrested based on what people standing nearby do, not based on what you are actually doing yourself.

    What kind of crazy people run Wisconsin?

    TFred


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    We have a couple of departments in Georgia with policies like this. One is a defendant in a lawsuit sponsored by GeorgiaCarry.Org, and I am guessing that another soon will be . . .

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    At this time, I can only find ONE person to go to Madison with me. And he is not from the city. I would like to go to the city, but I do not know the area at all, and would like anyone that knows it to "walk me around" to see the cool stuff that it has to offer. I would be OC'ing, but you would not have to at all. I would only be bringing a camera, as I like to keep my ID in my car (and a .40 cal. Beretta on my hip)... A good video recorder might be nice, I like to video edit. I sure thought Shotgun would have sent me a nice PM to help me out...hint hint...

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    Malum Prohibitum wrote:
    We have a couple of departments in Georgia with policies like this. One is a defendant in a lawsuit sponsored by GeorgiaCarry.Org, and I am guessing that another soon will be . . .
    I recall that the attorney pursuing the 18 USC 1983 case in Wisconsin is a GeorgiaCarry.Org attorney.

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    AaronS wrote:
    At this time, I can only find ONE person to go to Madison with me. And he is not from the city. I would like to go to the city, but I do not know the area at all, and would like anyone that knows it to "walk me around" to see the cool stuff that it has to offer. I would be OC'ing, but you would not have to at all. I would only be bringing a camera, as I like to keep my ID in my car (and a .40 cal. Beretta on my hip)... A good video recorder might be nice, I like to video edit. I sure thought Shotgun would have sent me a nice PM to help me out...hint hint...
    Aaron,

    Please, start a thread with a date, time, location (don't ask for suggestions, just do it) and then see how many people you get saying "I will be there." It will be more than one. Keep a list in the original post and update it with any new people who volunteer.

    Ask people to publicize the thread on other internet fora and by email to friends and relatives in Wisconsin. Stress that people should be polite, dressed well (business casual or better), and present a good image to the public generally.

    Nip this thing in the bud.



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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    The answer to this is easy:

    1) Print a copy of this memo and keep it on you.

    2) Go to a neutral location such as a restaraunt.

    3) Select a random person. (Let's say, the guy in the blue shirt.)

    4) Call the police about a man causing a public disturbance.

    5) When the police arrive, explain how you don't like blue shirts and feel as if he needs to be arrested.

    6) When they explain to you why they aren't going to do so, PULL OUT THE MEMO!

    You can then explain to them that, according to their boss, the legality of the person in question is not the determining factor.......

    ....it's the reaction of witnesses, right? Right? Well? Which is it?

    If the police are to detain law abiding individuals according to the reaction of witnesses, it has to be applied uniformly in order to be just, right?

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    Dreams and concepts are fine, but implementation is what matters. Often, that is what internet discussions lack - implementation and execution. You have to actually do something, not just talk about it!

    People will help out once they see that you are serious. Are you serious?

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    AaronS wrote:
    At this time, I can only find ONE person to go to Madison with me. And he is not from the city. I would like to go to the city, but I do not know the area at all, and would like anyone that knows it to "walk me around" to see the cool stuff that it has to offer. I would be OC'ing, but you would not have to at all. I would only be bringing a camera, as I like to keep my ID in my car (and a .40 cal. Beretta on my hip)... A good video recorder might be nice, I like to video edit. I sure thought Shotgun would have sent me a nice PM to help me out...hint hint...
    Sorry, I've been out of town while my mother had surgery... got some catching up to do on here I see.
    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Superlite27 wrote:
    The answer to this is easy:

    1) Print a copy of this memo and keep it on you.

    2) Go to a neutral location such as a restaraunt.

    3) Select a random person. (Let's say, the guy in the blue shirt.)

    4) Call the police about a man causing a public disturbance.

    5) When the police arrive, explain how you don't like blue shirts and feel as if he needs to be arrested.

    6) When they explain to you why they aren't going to do so, PULL OUT THE MEMO!

    You can then explain to them that, according to their boss, the legality of the person in question is not the determining factor.......

    ....it's the reaction of witnesses, right? Right? Well? Which is it?

    If the police are to detain law abiding individuals according to the reaction of witnesses, it has to be applied uniformly in order to be just, right?
    Or everytime you see a police officer in Madison, call 911 and tell them that you just saw a man with a gun and it is disturbing you.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
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    Wow, what the &%#$ is wrong with WI?? Arrest partially based on witnessess feelings?? :what:Twighlight Zone is right...Thank God I live in AZ, where our Federal and State Gun Rights are generally respected.

    So, when do the lawsuits start?

  12. #12
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Thundar wrote:
    Or everytime you see a police officer in Madison, call 911 and tell them that you just saw a man with a gun and it is disturbing you.
    Then more police officers would arrive, which would mean more openly carried firearms, which would be even more frightening, so you'd have to call more police, which would mean.............

    Unless.......maybe you could get the officer you saw first to arrest himself?

    After all, legality is moot. It's all about the reaction of witnesses.

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    IDK, I hate Madison to begin with.I went to school there and that is the last time I will be stepping foot into that city, armed or not.
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    If I could source the quote then I would post it, something about 'it's not the weight of the evidence but the seriousness of the charges.' It might date from the OJ Simpson trial or be from Maxine Waters or some such.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    If I could source the quote then I would post it, something about 'it's not the weight of the evidence but the seriousness of the charges.' It might date from the OJ Simpson trial or be from Maxine Waters or some such.
    Sexual harassment allegations against Clarence Thomas by Anita Hill.

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    Thank you. I do believe that you are right but try to find an attributed source.

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    Pick a date man. I posted in another thread that I will be passing thru madison on the 29th and 30th and should be able to help on those dates. Pick a date, you will get folks to help out. Strength in numbers.

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