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Thread: New to OC - Painesville ohio

  1. #1
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    Hello everyone my name is Justin I am am 26 and moved to Painesville,OH about a year ago. I have been involved on firearms my entire life thanks to my dad and Proud Of It..!!
    Scheduling my CCP as soon asap

    So here are my questions

    1. Should i have my CCP permit before i OC?? - opinions please

    2. Should i call Painesville PD and ask the Chief Of Police if their Officers are aware of the right to bare arms openly without a permit and are they aware of the 2nd amendment and ORC 9.68 ?

    3. What should i expect to hear from the Chief Of Police and how should I respond ?

    Any information would be greatly appreciated..

    Thank you for your time..

    Justin



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    I forgot to add something to my last post..

    I am trying to be Pro-Active on this topic with local Law Enforcement and also try to provide as much information as possible to be able to work with local Sheriff and local city police..

    I myself am NOT trying to make the local news, But if i can get my city/county to endorse this it would be great! I personally see this being a LONG shot though after read a lot of the stories posted on this website. Some very good some good and some bad mostly due to Misinformation by Law Enforcement ..

    Thanks again for your time..

    Justin

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    Well to answer your first question, you do not need you CHL to openly carry. There are some of us that carry with no form of id (sterile).

    Whether you should call the pd or not is up to you, personally I wouldn't just because you have a good chance of getting an earful of unlawful opinions, unfortunately.

    Hope this helps a little.



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    The only way you can legally carry a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle is with an Ohio Concealed Handgun License (CHL). So while you don't need a CHL while walking down the street carrying openly, it makes things easier and legal when you want to drive somewhere and not have to unload your gun every time you get in your car.

    If like most, you carry a semiauto, Ohio law considers your gun loaded in the car if there are rounds in the magazine no matter how physically separated the gun and the magazine are in the car. So a loaded magazine in your glovebox and gun in the trunk is still a loaded gun according to Ohio law.

    So if you don't have a CHL, you would have to remove all the rounds from your magazine before getting in your car and then reinsert them after reaching your destination. Bit of a pain.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    First off I would not call the police chief. Send a "Notice." A notice is just that, notice. A notice is not a debate of a request for a discussion.

    Dear Police Chief/Sherriff:

    Greetings,

    As you are aware, the open carrying of a firearm in Ohio is a fundamental right.

    If you are not aware of that fact then I suggest you contact the Ohio Attorney General for a legal opinion. But, for starters I direct your attention to the AG's website addressing conceal carry. http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/f...s-Booklet.aspx Page 18 of the handbook published by the AG addresses open carry.

    The exercising of this right (open carry) does not invoke a charge of inducing panic or disturbing the piece.

    Based on the above, I hereby give you notice that should you or any of your officers come in contact with me while open carrying I will expect you or your officers will respect my right and not attempt to perform a felony stop.

    I would be happy to come to the station and introduce myself so that you or your officers know who I am.

    Sincerely,

    XXXXXX

    Just a suggestion.....



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    I live in Painesville and know both Sheriff Dunlap and Chief Smith. They are both supportive of concealed carry as are their LEO. Just get your permit and and you will be fine. I have no desire to open carry because why look for problems. As stated, unless you walk everywhere, you have the transporting a gun problem. I also don't like to advertise the fact that I have a gun. Less people who know the better.

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    slbett wrote:
    I live in Painesville and know both Sheriff Dunlap and Chief Smith. They are both supportive of concealed carry as are their LEO. Just get your permit and and you will be fine. I have no desire to open carry because why look for problems. As stated, unless you walk everywhere, you have the transporting a gun problem. I also don't like to advertise the fact that I have a gun. Less people who know the better.
    That argument is so weak.



    Here's a good rebuttle
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum6/31230.html

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    Justin, I OC'd prior to getting my CCW license, and even though I knew the legality of my actions, I did sometimes feel a little strange, - though proud, mind you. It was also a pain with the transportation in a car thing with the "Magazine shuffle."

    I recently went and got my CCW, and now, I can OC or CC anytime, nearly anywhere (of course the restrictions by law, blah blah blah), and that strange feeling I had, well, it went away. In fact, I prefer to OC now. Just my two cents if it helps.

    As for the Notifying the PD thing, I don't really see the upside (or even a downside to that), probably a waste of time IMO. Just know your rights, and the Ohio Revised Code, as it sounds as though you do. You will be fine, follow advise you see on this site.

    Happy OC'ing!

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    color of law wrote:
    First off I would not call the police chief. Send a "Notice." A notice is just that, notice. A notice is not a debate of a request for a discussion.

    Dear Police Chief/Sherriff:

    Greetings,

    As you are aware, the open carrying of a firearm in Ohio is a fundamental right.

    If you are not aware of that fact then I suggest you contact the Ohio Attorney General for a legal opinion. But, for starters I direct your attention to the AG's website addressing conceal carry. http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/f...s-Booklet.aspx Page 18 of the handbook published by the AG addresses open carry.

    The exercising of this right (open carry) does not invoke a charge of inducing panic or disturbing the piece.

    Based on the above, I hereby give you notice that should you or any of your officers come in contact with me while open carrying I will expect you or your officers will respect my right and not attempt to perform a felony stop.

    I would be happy to come to the station and introduce myself so that you or your officers know who I am.

    Sincerely,

    XXXXXX

    Just a suggestion.....

    Great idea I think. I took the liberty of expanding the letter some and pasted it in below. I respect your opinion and comments/additions/corrections are welcome.

    I may actually send such a notice to the PD Chief here.


    Dear Police Chief/Sheriff:
    Greetings,

    As you are aware, the open carrying of a firearm in Ohio is a fundamental right and is a legal activity for the citizens of Ohio.

    If you are not aware of that fact then I suggest you contact the Ohio Attorney General and the [Law Director/City Attorney] of the [City, Village, Town, County] of XXXXX for legal opinions. But, for a start I direct your attention to the AG's website addressing conceal carry. http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/f...s-Booklet.aspx Page 18 of the handbook published by the AG addresses open carry of a firearm.

    The exercising of this right (open carry of a firearm) does not invoke a charge of inducing panic or disturbing the peace and does not give any law enforcement officer any legal or Constitutional right or authority to arbitrarily suspend the Constitutional rights of any individual when he/she is seen to be exercising their right to openly carry a firearm.

    Based on the above, I hereby give you notice that should you or any of your officers come in contact with me while openly carrying my firearm for personal protection I will expect that you and all of the officers under your command will respect my right and not attempt to perform a felony stop or to stop and or harass and or detain me and or anyone with me in any fashion.

    One (or two if a two man unit) uniformed officers in one marked or unmarked Police car pulling up beside me and calmly engaging in a brief and casual conversation will not be considered to be a violation of my right to openly carry my firearm or harassment as long as they do not demand that I disarm or go any further than a brief and casual conversation and then move on. Also one (or two if a two man unit) uniformed officers in one marked or unmarked Police car calmly and briefly observing my actions as I go about them, and then moving on, will not be considered to be a violation of my right to openly carry my firearm or harassment.

    I would be happy to come to the station and introduce myself so that you or your officers know who I am.

    Sincerely,
    XXXXXXXXXX


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    w8new, you are free to write whatever letter you like to anybody you like. But, why would put qualifications as to what you consider harassment, or not harassment. If LEO stands on one foot and says mother may I have your gun, that would be OK?

    Reasonable suspicion is a legal standard in United States law that a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity based on specific and articulable facts and inferences. It is the basis for an investigatory or Terry stop by the police and requires less evidence than probable cause, the legal requirement for arrests and warrants. Reasonable suspicion is evaluated using the "reasonable person" or "reasonable officer" standard, in which said person in the same circumstances could reasonably believe a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity; such suspicion is not a mere hunch. Police may also, based solely on reasonable suspicion of a threat to safety, frisk a suspect for weapons, but not for contraband like drugs. A combination of particular facts, even if each is individually innocuous, can form the basis of reasonable suspicion.

    So tell me how the cop, if he wants, not take your side arm?????? A straight forward notice to the cops as to your rights makes it tough for reasonable suspicion to arise.




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    I see your point. If I should decide to send it maybe I'll delete that whole paragraph. I doubt that it would ever be put out to the officers on the street anyhow.

    I'm still waiting to find out if the LPD has been given the promised training and if not when, not that I think it will do any good - I don't.


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    w8new wrote:
    I'm still waiting to find out if the LPD has been given the promised training and if not when, not that I think it will do any good - I don't.
    Just a reminder - the agreement between you & Lima didn't include any requirement for any of their officers to be trained. It's only requirement in that regard was for the City Law Director to work with your attorney to provide training materials.

    Of course, there's no time limit for their compliance, nor even any sort of definition as to what "working with your attorney" might actually entail.

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    jabeatty wrote:
    w8new wrote:
    I'm still waiting to find out if the LPD has been given the promised training and if not when, not that I think it will do any good - I don't.
    Just a reminder - the agreement between you & Lima didn't include any requirement for any of their officers to be trained. It's only requirement in that regard was for the City Law Director to work with your attorney to provide training materials.

    Of course, there's no time limit for their compliance, nor even any sort of definition as to what "working with your attorney" might actually entail.
    Further, the agreement is void ab initio. You have three attorneys that perpetrated a fraud on a law abiding citizen and they are getting away with it.

    2921.45 Interfering with civil rights. (A) No public servant, under color of his office, employment, or authority, shall knowingly deprive, or conspire or attempt to deprive any person of a constitutional or statutory right.
    (B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of interfering with civil rights, a misdemeanor of the first degree.


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    jabeatty wrote:
    w8new wrote:
    I'm still waiting to find out if the LPD has been given the promised training and if not when, not that I think it will do any good - I don't.
    Just a reminder - the agreement between you & Lima didn't include any requirement for any of their officers to be trained. It's only requirement in that regard was for the City Law Director to work with your attorney to provide training materials.

    Of course, there's no time limit for their compliance, nor even any sort of definition as to what "working with your attorney" might actually entail.
    You are, of course, correct. The agreement says "the City Director of Law working with my attorney to provide training material to the Lima Police Department". The Law Director told me that when the "training material" was provided he would conduct the training with each of the 3 shifts at the PD. That promise by him to do the training was not actually mentioned in the agreement. My choice of wording is misleading to say the least, but that was not my intention.

    I'm thinking that I should have had my DVR recording when I met with the Law Director. I had it in my pocket since I knew that I would be OCing on the way back home.

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    i think you should stop beeting around this bush and tell the OP about your case of getting jacked-up by the lima PD, and the suffering you endured because you OCd!!

    he deserves to have a firm understanding of the difference between what is legal, and what horrors can happen to a law abiding citizen!!

    its been a long time, how does your little girl feel about what happened to her daddy that night?

    to the OP; read this thread, its important info for you before you go out OC!!

    Lima Open Carry Incident - Case Dismissed




    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Concealed carry means just that to me. The less people who know the better IMHO. I carry for defense and can draw from concealment effectively. I just don't care to get into debates or want to explain myself to anyone. Even those who think this is a weak argument. I carry for PERSONAL protection and how I carry is my choice. As I said, I know a lot of the officers and, in fact several judges and the prosecutor. I would have little trouble with them, only with those ignorant people who don't know "yours" and "my" rights. I just choose not to have to deal with the anti-gun people. I am perfectly able to protect my family and myself and very few of them even know if I am carrying or not. Same with everyone else. Just as you have a right to OC, I have a license to CC and do.

    Jason needs to get his CC permit so he can transport (I'm talking about in a car here) his gun (loaded, holstered and accessable) anywhere it is legal to in the state of Ohio. After all, as they say, an unloaded gun is just a big hammer. I never said he or anyone else couldn't or shouldn't OC. I just said I don't like to and why. I did say that both the sheriff's department and the Painesville police don't have an issue with anyone with a CC permit.

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    I know and have worked around police officers and USMC Embassy Guards. They OC. I also have worked with FBI agents and the Secret Service. They CC.

    Both have their reasons and both work for them. I choose CC. Works for me.

    Jason, do what you think is best for you. Just know the laws and your rights.

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    Justin02b


    must have been a trool! or hes in jail still! 2 posts only, bs story.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    1245A Defender wrote:
    Justin02b


    must have been a trool! or hes in jail still! 2 posts only, bs story.
    NO SIR - I am not a troll NOR have i EVER BEEN IN JAIL .. just haven't had time to come back on here .. trying to make ends meet and working a lot "just like everyone else now a day's" Sorry i don't have a 1000 post just had a few question about open carry and APPRECIATE all the posts positive or negative..

    I CC my Springfield XD 40SC everyday

    I have not decided to open carry due to all the negative feed back which is very disappointing in my eyes .. I do not have the time or funds to spend in court defending something that is already known to be completely legal / Our Right as an American Citizen's in Ohio and other states..

    Thanks to all that responded..



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